PG-13 vs. The World

[El-P]

I didn't mean Neidhart wasn't working hard. But Neidhart is the typical case of "good for what he is" or "he's playing his role right", as opposed to "very good worker".

[Dylan Waco]

Samoan Swat Team/HeadShrinkers : probably underrated at this point because they never had the defining matches.

 

Agree on the SST. They were fun as fuck too watch and had some quality matches but they lack those couple of matches that really put them over the top as an undeniably great team.

 

Smothers & Guido ? Really good team, but where are the matches ? I don't buy it.

Highflyers ? We need some AWA expertise here.

I would have felt the same way about Smothers/Guido if I hadn't just watched so much of them. On paper they seem like a good team without a "match." And in general they were paired up against very weak teams including makeshift teams with guys like Chris Chetti, Nova/Meanie who really didn't have much going for them at all, et. But here is the catch. In everything they watched I NEVER saw them in a bad match. Not once, despite often times being in matches against truly awful opponents. Here are some of the top matches of theirs I saw.

 

FBI v. Eliminators - ECW FanCam 5-3-97

 

Unfortunately the audio is not great on this so it is hard to make out Rich's pre-match tirade, but his hair and jean jacket almost make up for it as the immediate effect of just seeing him is to laugh hysterically. Guido is really great in the opening exchange and I loved the subsequent mat exchange as well with him and Saturn that built to a really well executed spinning jump kick from Saturn for a theatrical Guido bump. Smothers flips in backwards and mimes his opposition to Kronus karate tactics. Rich is infuriating by Kronus fighting stance and demands the ref intervene to stop him. Tracy ends up taking Kronus down but Kronus escapes which of course leads to a debate about whether or not Kronus used the tights or not. They come up for a rope running spot that ends with a powerslam and spinkick to Tracy and the crowd is going ballistic. Kronus misses his handspring elbow and Tracy clothesline's him pretty sharply and follows up with a bodyslam but misses a standing big splash. Guido and Smothers end up taking some elaborate Elims double teams that usually look like dogshit, but the FBI really makes them look good. Rich gets on the apron at this point but backs down when Saturn charges toward him and the place explodes again. Smothers and Saturn face off mid-ring and Smothers gets into a verbal spat with him that last for nearly a minute then flips him off and pushes him then starts shit talking him again than slaps him. Saturn answers with a slap of his own that floors Tracy and they go into a good chop exchange with both guys really laying it in. Saturn hits a sunset flip but Guido distracts him. Saturn ends up getting tripped to the floor by Smothers where Rich gives him the crotch posting on the steel. Saturn FIP is better than you might expect as the FBI really do bust out some offense you might not expect (loved the double dropkick) and Saturn actually takes a really cool flip bump on a clothesline after a well executed hope spot. FBI do a really great job building heat on him by cutting off the ring and at one point Rich smacks him on the face with the flag pole and then Guido works him over on the floor with Saturn getting a brief hope spot their which is an old Ricky Morton trick. Rich bitch up the ref on the counts is great as he sounds like a redneck at an SEC football game bitching about corrupt officials. Saturn gets a good hope spot off of a crossbody and then dos a double axe kick and avoids some FBI elbow drops to set up the hot tag to Kronus. Kronus is a house of fire but ends up missing a moonsault and it looks like the heels might steel one but the Elims fire back. Cool spot with Rich getting knocked off the apron into the steel and then Smothers knocked to the floor. Guido stumbles to his feet and the Elims hit a Total Elimination that almost has a feel of desperation to it. Kronus takes the fall as Saturn runs around the ring thwarting the potential save of Smothers and Rich. This was really a tremendous match. Easily the best Elims mach I've ever seen as it had great structure and was not a spot overload. FBI came out of this looking like serious challengers and the Elims cmae out look liking fighting champions which is really the point.

 

FBI v. Spike Dudley/Tommy Dreamer - ECW FanCam 10-16-97

 

This was supposed to be Chetti and Spike v. FBI, but pre-match Tommy Rich grabs the mic after Chetti is announced as the Rookie and says that Gordon Solie just told him he was rookie of the year and they proceed to beat the fucking shit out of Chetti and Spike. Chetti gets mauled to the point where the locker room empties with even Joey Styles coming out to help carry him back. Then Rich grabs the mic and says the ref has to raise their hands because of everyone is booked and Spike can't work alone. Spike goes and gets Dreamer and after a ring announcer tries to bar Dreamer from wrestling via medical orders and ends up taking a DDT the mach gets under way with Guido getting his ass bumped around early by Dreamer. Dreamer had a bum foot at this point and Rich trips him off a rope running spot leading to his leg getting beat up to all hell by the FBI. They really do a great job control him and working over his leg and there is also an awesome spot where he fights to his feet and Tracy drops him with a Jake Roberts level DDT. Smothers is just awesome working over Dreamer here as every time he gets close to a vertical position he kicks out Tommy's legs or pummels him with nasty punches or both. After some great teases Tommy finally gets the hot tag off of a Smothers "mistake" and Spike comes in and just cleans house with a ton of big time offense. They do a really cool false finish where Dreamer hits the DDT but rich puts Guido's bottom foot on the rope and they end up with a restart with Guido clipping Dreamer for a nearfall before the inevitable acid drop finish. This was awesome shit from the moment Rich opened his mouth until the finish.

 

FBI v. Chris Candido/Lance Storm - 3/6/98 (TV)

 

I really loved this match. FBI essentially work as faces here, though they still engage in some heel antics with Rich suckering Storm on the floor and the like. Candido/Storm were working an early version of "tag partners that don't get along" so there was a lot of teased dissension but nothing that hindered the work. In fact it enhanced the match as you bought the FBI as a threat which normally you might not have. Storm clearly looked the worst out of everyone in this but no one looked bad. Really loved Guido busting out a frankensteiner of all things early, and man were the Smothers/Candido exchanges good. They busted out a lot of the stuff from the SMW playbook, including some great rope running spots, a really cool series with Candido hitting his tope rope rana, but missing his diving headbutt, a great chop exchange in the corner with Smothers lighting him up and spitting in Chris face after getting the same treatment a second earlier, and a cool spot on the floor built around Candido avoiding his staple through the ropes double boot. Build to the finish was really cool as well, with a teased superbomb from Storm, a cool double leapfrog spot from the heels, et. Finish itself was fairly weak, but this was still a very strong match.

 

FBI v. Nova/Blue Meanie - ECW FanCam 5-29-98

 

All the opening stuff with Guido and Nova was great as Guido made Nova's bullshit look good by hamming it up big time. Rich gets on the mic and sets up the Tracy/Meanie dance off with Smothers busting his ass on the backflip over the rope to enter the ring. Cool way to break it up as Smothers drills Meanie with a dropkick after the ref dances. Rich is so pissed he gets into the ring and gets shoved on his ass by the ref which leads to the spot with the ref double clotheslining and body slamming the FBI to a massive pop from the Southern crowd. Nova does a huge tope that sends the FBI flying half way down the aisle off of a Meanie dive fake, but Rich takes over by hitting a nasty diving bulldog into the railing on Nova, crotching him on the railing a minute later and hitting him with a blindside clothesline right after. Some cool FBI double teams, including the atomic drop/pump kick combo which always looks great. Rich takes his fingers and rubs them into Nova's eyes and then shows his paint to the crowd. Really good cut off as Nova turns a sunset flip attempt into a legdrop but Smothers rakes his eyes on the nearfall and then tags him with a good looking dropkick. Another cool spot with Nova countering a powerslam attempt with a roll up. And yet another cool one with a Smothers backfist knocking Nova out as he got back up on a chinlock/work the crowd spot. Nova finally gets the hot tag off of his powerbomb/elbow combo and Meanie who looks crazy fat here hits a bunch of fat man offense and knocks Rich face first on his ass through a table taking him out which sets up a clean Nova fall over Guido. This might have been the best match of their entire series.

 

FBI v. Axl Rotten/Balls Mahoney - A Matter of Respect 98

 

This was a really awesome segment. FBI comes out to "New York, New York" doing a Sinatra tribute with Tracy in all his dancing glory. Meanie and Nova come out for a rematch from a previous show and the FBI just fucking brutally maul them. You really don't expect this out of the FBI but this is an epic ass kicking with Meanie bleeding a horrible gusher and Tommy Rich rubbing the paint off of Nova's face. Damage control comes down to take out the babyfaces and Rich gets on the mic and says something like "some of us may be in jail, Frank may be gone, but this was for you ole Blue Eyes!" Then Axl and Balls come out to replace Nova/Meanie and the FBI ambush them. Match is really a pretty good traditional tag with Guido and Tracy gaining control and doing some great heat garnering shtick, while Rich argues with fans, screams at the camera with his face soaked in Meanie's blood, et. Best spots are Rich bulldogging Balls from the apron to the security railing and Guido getting backdropped onto Tracy from the ring to the floor which essentially resulted in Guido taking a Samoan drop from his tag partner into the security railing. Finish was a good babyface comeback leading to a double chairshot finish.

 

What makes this to me is the fact that it's the FBI breaking out of their comedy ghetto but without compromising their overtly comedic gimmick. When Meanie/Nova come out you are thinking "this could be a fun little match with some cute comedy spots and FBI shtick." Instead the FBI savagely beat the fuck of Nova and (especially) Meanie to the point where this shit actually feels like a Joe Pesci in Goodfellas/Casino explosion of senseless violence.

 

My favorite fucking part of this is Axl walking over to Meanie with a look of legit concern as Meanie is gushing blood from his head, being carried off. Axl Rotten tried to kill his own "brother" with glass and barbed wire bats and even he was worried Meanie had been offed for Ole Blue Eyes. Awesome.

 

FBI v. Tommy Rogers/Sammy Solo - ECW FanCam 10-4-98

 

Opening exchanges with Guido and Solo were a lot of fun as they worked some slick mat counters and throws and I really thought Guido's Boston Crab looked pretty brutal. Rich's mic work is almost totally inaudible which is too bad because he works the crowd into a frenzy during the stalling spots. Really liked Solo's highspot comeback being cut off by a Guido armdrag straight into an armbar and Smothers doing his mock karate spot and getting hit with a dropkick was cool as always. Man Solo's shit does not look good at all but FBI are so great at bumping and selling for it that you don't give a shit. Rogers and Smothers face off spot was great and the run with the big spots on the floor was fucking awesome, especially Rich fleeing from Rogers after Rich dropped Solo on his throat. Smothers three point stance clothesline and Solo's subsequent 360 bump was really great. God damn Solo takes some cool shit including a nasty back elbow and a double boot from Smothers. FIP was a bit short but Smothers was a really good house of fire. Finish was a bit fucked up as Tommy hits the Tomakazie and Solo hits a botched standing shooting star which Rich breaks up with a top rope chain spot. Still I really loved this one.

 

This is a taste. They had several quality matches with Axl/Balls and Nova/Meanie who they were wedded to for most of their run. I could provide more dates and reviews if need be. What is notable to me here is that this is a team that could have good matches against very limited talent, was really consistent, was really adaptable to their opponent, was the total package with Rich as their Cornette, and really seemed to have "the best matches" of every team they worked against. Seriously that Elims match, Candido/Storm match, Balls/Axl match and Nova/Meanie match are the best matches those teams ever had in my estimation and I don't think it is a coincidence that they were against Smothers/Guido.

 

I've also been watching a lot of High Flyers recently and they too are an underrated team. Here are a few reviews of matches involving them.

 

The High Flyers v. Jerry Blackwell/Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie (Cage Match)

 

This was some kind of raw footage and had a couple of strange cuts, at one point with the camera shot changing to the back of the Arena during a huge Blackwell bump, which also may have seen a fair bit of the match cut. Having said that, what was shown here was really good. The bulk of this is Gagne in peril which is a role I actually like him in as he is over and can take a pretty good asskicking. Some of the camera shots in this are fun including close ups of women in near tears, Brunzell's bloody face as he begs Greg to tag him, et. There is even blood splattered on the camera at one point. Kassie is way better in this than I would have thought and at one point takes one of the nastiest looking cage rakes I've ever seen from Brunzell. I was on the fence about nominating this mainly due to the edits, but the finish is really great. Greg ends up getting the hot tag and Brunzell comes in hot, but Greg ends up back on the defensive. Blackwell goes to the top rope and misses a huge splash, than takes an insane over the ropes bump into the cage to set up the double dropkick pin by the faces on Adnan. Just a really great "holy shit!" sequence, capped off with a heel beatdown of Greg post-match and Verne running into the ring to beat on Kassie while the crowd surges and tries to jump into the cage to help the faces.

 

The High Flyers v. East-West Connection

 

Early leg work on Ventura really doesn't mean much but I liked it because of how sharp it looked. In particular Gagne's Indian Deathlock was really tight and looked vicious. People can slag on Greg all they want but he could show fire and Brunzell was a good go to partner for him when it came time to really heat things up. Adonis/Gagne section was good and featured a cool rope running monkey flip spot. Brunzell comes in and immediately starts getting worked over by Jesse. I am not a Ventura fan by any means but Brunzell is really taking his offense well, leaping into turnbuckles, eating some tight looking shot, et. Cool spot with Brunzell and Adonis exchanging close nearfalls with neither of their partners able to break them up as this match had an immediate DQ for two men being in the ring at once. Adonis hits a dropkick for a nearfall than takes one from Brunzell which he does an epic sell for. Adonis and Ventura take their staple big bumps in this and take them well. Gagne goes FIP after a wild bump off a missed dropkick, which Adonis follows up with his great backbreaker an ab stretch. Ventura keeps the heat section going with an overhead backbreaker that Gagne reverses into a pinning combo for a good hope spot. Adonis with a huge over the top bump off of a missed splash. Brunzell in and the heels are pinballing, but Adonis kicks loose of a spinning toehold attempt and sends Jim to the floor. Match ends in a double countout when all parties spill to the floor on a sleeper. Strong match with everyone looking good marred by a typically bad 80's finish.

 

The High Flyers v. Jerry Blackwell/Ken Patera

 

The opening sequence was great as they go from a rope running spot, into Greg getting slammed by Blackwell, into Blackwell missing a splash, taking his awesome dropkick sell and then Brunzell coming in and working his arm really well to wild approval from the crowd. Patera comes in and he gets his arm worked over too. There is a clip here though I don't think much is lost at all as Patera misses a diving knee and then gets hung up in the ropes on a wild looking bump. I really liked the transition to the heat section here as Brunzell gets too close to the heel corner and Patera just sort of lays his weight on him in such a way that it allows for him to tag Blackwell in who catches him with a splash. The heels are really working some great stuff here, as you get Brunzell isolated in the corner eating a huge avalanche that he doesn't see coming, the old tag behind the refs back hope spot and a really cool spot with Patera working over Brunzell on the floor only for Brunzell to floor him with a forearm and rush in for the tag only to be trapped in a front face lock by a lunging Blackwell. Fucking great hope spot from Brunzell on a back body drop of Patera. Blackwell tags in and ends up going up top where he misses a big splash with Brunzell almost instinctively rolling over for a nearfall that Patera breaks up. Brunzell ALMOST gets to the ropes but Blackwell tags in Patera and trips Brunzell at the last second allowing Patera to hit an elbow to his back. Gagne comes in and attacks Patera which allows Brunzell enough time to hit a dropkick. Brunzell retreats into the heels corner but as Patera comes forward he goes through his legs for a hot tag. Patera ends up getting squashed by Blackwell who is whipped into him and Blackwell busts out a whole slew of fat man bumps including a great weeble wobble sell of a drop kick with Gagne chopping him over for the final TIMBERRRR. Gagne locks on the sleeper after Patera takes a nasty and wild bump to the floor. Brunzell goes out to work over Patera on the floor but Adnan runs in and clubs the ref with his cast to trigger a DQ. The only thing about this that wasn't awesome was the finish, but I didn't even mind that as post-match stuff with the faces ripping the cast off of Adnan and then choking him and beating the heels with it was awesome.

 

 

The High Flyers v. The Freebirds

 

This is Roberts and Hayes. The opening with the Birds stalling and avoiding contact setting up a nice flash run from Brunzell off of a Hayes rope running exchange and leading to the Birds bailing to the floor while the faces mockingly danced in the ring was good stuff. They sort of continue with this theme for a few minutes which is sound as the Birds are good at working this sort of match. They actually worked a really effective arm sretcher spot with Hayes being thwarted trying to sneak in, Buddy escaping with stomp to Greg's face, a cross body attempt from Greg, and a nice punch exchange on their knees all coming out of the hold. Greg ends up in the heel corner but Hayes misses a big knee and Brunzell comes in and takes over on his leg. Cool spot as Hayes breaks this up by punching Brunzell in the face but as soon as Buddy is tagged in he is dragged back in and eats a knee drop off the ropes from Greg to his leg. Greg locks on his Indian Deathlock and they do a cool bit with Hayes trying to come into the ring several times only for Hayes to be scared off by the crowds screaming which alerted the ref every time. Brunzell comes in and locks on a figure four but Buddy quickly rolls to the heel corner and tags in Hayes while Brunzell is still applying the hold which allows Hayes to take over. The heels do a nice job isolating Brunzell who has to resort to an eyepoke for a hope spot. Cool to see the knee to the rope running faces back used as a cut off spot here as that is usually used at the beginning of a heel heat segment. Gagne gets the hot tag and the match quickly turned into a melee with everyone in the ring slugging it out. Brunzell ends up locking on a figure-four on Buddy but Hayes leaps off the top with a diving knee as Greg is tied up with the ref for the finish. I thought this was as pretty awesome little match.

 

They also have one of the better Roadies matches I've ever seen, a really good match v. Saito and Bock, some other great stuff with East-West, et. Really good team.

[Log]

Hart Foundation ? Way too many really good matches in a non favourable environment to be put aside. That said, Jim Neidhart wasn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Neidhart was putting in just as much work as Bret. Maybe more because I've seen matches at smaller shows where Bret decided not to bother but Anvil went all out.

 

I can tell you that, as a kid, my friends and I thought Anvil was the better of that team. He was just a more entertaining character than Bret was then. I was a huge fan of the WWF tag scene. Those survivor matches with all the teams were like my dream matches. While the tag scene for Vince back then wasn't the main event, it was pretty heavily featured. I think some people are so used to seeing tag wrestling crapped on nowadays, that people forget that.

 

Also, I really think we're selling the Fabs short here. Along with the PYTs, they were one of the real revelations of the Memphis set for me.

[Victator]

It really was impressive how the FBI was able to turn serious and it worked. I'm annoyed they never ran FBI vs Dudleys or FBI vs Sabu/RVD. There is a really good FBI vs Axl/Balls and Dreamer at House Party 98.

[Dylan Waco]

yeah if you add six-mans there is a really massive case for the FBI. FBI v. Mikey/Spike was my dream match and they teased it once but shot an injury angle instead

[Kostka]

There is no way in hell those teams (especially Hardyz or MnM) are better than Demolition or even the Hart Foundation.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

[Victator]

There is no way in hell those teams (especially Hardyz or MnM) are better than Demolition or even the Hart Foundation.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

 

I could come up with ten Demolition matches better than the best Hardyz or MnM match.

[Victator]

Has FBI vs Furnas and Kroffat ever turned up? Speaking of it was stupid how suddenly the FBI's title run got cut off. They could of gotten way more out of them as tag champs. They never even ran a Dudleys/FBI feud.

[Dylan Waco]

There is no way in hell those teams (especially Hardyz or MnM) are better than Demolition or even the Hart Foundation.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

 

I could come up with ten Demolition matches better than the best Hardyz or MnM match.

 

This is really a matter of taste then I guess. I like Demolition fine, but I don't know that I've seen a Demolition match as good as the best MNM v. Haas/Holly tag. Certainly never seen one that I would even put in the same league as the aforementioned match from RR 07.

[Dylan Waco]

Has FBI vs Furnas and Kroffat ever turned up? Speaking of it was stupid how suddenly the FBI's title run got cut off. They could of gotten way more out of them as tag champs. They never even ran a Dudleys/FBI feud.

I've never seen a Can Ams v. FBI match.

 

Can Ams best U.S. matches were against Spike and Mikey who were one of the best short lived tag teams I've ever seen.

[Victator]

There is no way in hell those teams (especially Hardyz or MnM) are better than Demolition or even the Hart Foundation.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

 

I could come up with ten Demolition matches better than the best Hardyz or MnM match.

 

This is really a matter of taste then I guess. I like Demolition fine, but I don't know that I've seen a Demolition match as good as the best MNM v. Haas/Holly tag. Certainly never seen one that I would even put in the same league as the aforementioned match from RR 07.

 

Rockers/Demolition and vs Brainbusters (SNME series and MSG) feud kills it. The Towers Boston matches, Summerslam 88 vs the Harts, MSG vs Andre/Haku. Shit I like the Hardys and to a lesser extent MnM but they can't match that. Especially in straight tags.

[Kostka]

There is no way in hell those teams (especially Hardyz or MnM) are better than Demolition or even the Hart Foundation.

Hardys vs MNM from the 2007 Royal Rumble is better than any Hart Foundation or Demolition match I've seen. It was worked very much like a southern style tag match, too. MNMs entire run gets slept on and the Hardys reunion tour in 06-07 easily is comparable to any 80s WWF tag teams run.

 

I could come up with ten Demolition matches better than the best Hardyz or MnM match.

 

MNM vs the Hardys from the Rumble is one of the best tag bouts in WWE history. Demolition had plenty of good matches, but I don't think they ever hit that level. Even if you want to talk non-Hardy MNM matches, they have the greatly underrated series against Haas/Holly that Dylan mentioned, the Guerrero/Mysterio series (i saw a house show tag between these teams that went 20 + that would be discussed very favorably had someone fancammed it), the Batista/Mysterio series with the first (I think) tv match being legit great and my second favorite WWE tag match of the decade, the London/Kendrick matches, etc.

[El-P]

I would have felt the same way about Smothers/Guido if I hadn't just watched so much of them. On paper they seem like a good team without a "match." And in general they were paired up against very weak teams including makeshift teams with guys like Chris Chetti, Nova/Meanie who really didn't have much going for them at all, et. But here is the catch. In everything they watched I NEVER saw them in a bad match. Not once, despite often times being in matches against truly awful opponents.

Agreed, they have mostly a terrible opposition, and if they had quality opponents they would probably have some legit great matches. Guido would make my top 10 ECW guys.

 

FBI v. Eliminators - ECW FanCam 5-3-97

Haven't seen this one. Too bad, as the FBI could probably the Eliminators to something really good.

 

FBI v. Spike Dudley/Tommy Dreamer - ECW FanCam 10-16-97

I have zero recollection of this, although I did saw it. Didn't bother saving it to my hard drive, which tells you how much I cared for it.

 

FBI v. Chris Candido/Lance Storm - 3/6/98 (TV)

Right, very strong match, maybe my FBI (Smothers version) favourite.

 

FBI v. Nova/Blue Meanie - ECW FanCam 5-29-98

It was allright for shits and giggles, but Meanie & Nova really sucks. I don't care about this series that much.

 

FBI v. Axl Rotten/Balls Mahoney - A Matter of Respect 98

The post match was awesome. The match, not so much, but the fact Smothers & Guido made me watch an entire Axl & Balls match without FF is something it itself.

 

FBI v. Tommy Rogers/Sammy Solo - ECW FanCam 10-4-98

Don't think I've seen that one.

 

What is notable to me here is that this is a team that could have good matches against very limited talent, was really consistent, was really adaptable to their opponent, was the total package with Rich as their Cornette, and really seemed to have "the best matches" of every team they worked against. Seriously that Elims match, Candido/Storm match, Balls/Axl match and Nova/Meanie match are the best matches those teams ever had in my estimation and I don't think it is a coincidence that they were against Smothers/Guido.

They were an excellent team, no doubt about that. The issue is bad opposition. We'll never know how they would have fare with quality opponents. The Candido/Storm hints that they would have ruled (and by quality opponent I mean Candido here), but I can't in good conscience put them ahead of teams who did had lots of really excellent matches.

 

Thanks for the Highflyers reviews.

[El-P]

Other FBI matches I enjoyed quite a bit :

 

1997.03.30 (TV) FBI vs Chris Chetti & Spike Dudley (yes, I did enjoy some matches involving Spike Dudley;

1997.05.17 (TV) FBI vs Pitbulls (yes, they got a good match out of the Pitbulls...)

1997.08.21 (TV) FBI vs Chris CHetti & Spike Dudley (again...)

1997.10.18 (TV) FBI vs Gangstanators (okay, not much of a match, rather a squash and a fun angle, but again, the FBI made me watch an entire match involving New Jack)

1997.10.31 (Fan Cam ) FBI vs Mickey Whipreck & Chris Chetti

1997.12.06 (TV) FBI vs Tommy Rogers & Jerry Lynn

1997.12.13 (Fan Cam) FBI vs Chris Candido & Lance Storm (I don't remember if it was as good as the TV match)

1997.12.27 (Fan Cam) FBI vs Tommy Dreamer & Axl Rotten & Balls Mahoney (super fun match, great promos, tons of ga-ga)

1998.03.01 (Living Dangerously) FBI vs Jerry Lynn & Chris Chetti

1998.03.13 (TV) FBI vs Sandman & 2 Cold SCorpio (fun but too short to amont to anything)

1998.05.03 (WrestlePalooza) - 05.14 (TV) FBI vs Blue Meanie & Nova (typical matches between those two teams...)

1998.09.19 FBI vs Tommy Rogers & Chris Chetti (single match between Rogers & Smothers turning into a tag, with the added bonus of JT Smith making his comeback at the end, fun stuff)

[Bix]

MNM-Hardys from Rumble '07 is kinda perplexing to me in that I legitimately have no idea why it hasn't really been pimped at all outside of our circle. It's the type of match I'd expect most fans to love, as it's worked exactly like a high end MX vs R&R match but with lots of new, creative, spots that totally make sense.

[Kostka]

MNM-Hardys from Rumble '07 is kinda perplexing to me in that I legitimately have no idea why it hasn't really been pimped at all outside of our circle. It's the type of match I'd expect most fans to love, as it's worked exactly like a high end MX vs R&R match but with lots of new, creative, spots that totally make sense.

Exactly. I think people tend to focus on Cena-Umaga from the same show, and that was a match I loved at the time too. I still do, but in retrospect, Hardys-MNM is every bit as good, maybe even better. It's just one of those gems that got lost in the shuffle.

[Dylan Waco]

I would have felt the same way about Smothers/Guido if I hadn't just watched so much of them. On paper they seem like a good team without a "match." And in general they were paired up against very weak teams including makeshift teams with guys like Chris Chetti, Nova/Meanie who really didn't have much going for them at all, et. But here is the catch. In everything they watched I NEVER saw them in a bad match. Not once, despite often times being in matches against truly awful opponents.

Agreed, they have mostly a terrible opposition, and if they had quality opponents they would probably have some legit great matches. Guido would make my top 10 ECW guys.

 

FBI v. Eliminators - ECW FanCam 5-3-97

Haven't seen this one. Too bad, as the FBI could probably the Eliminators to something really good.

 

FBI v. Spike Dudley/Tommy Dreamer - ECW FanCam 10-16-97

I have zero recollection of this, although I did saw it. Didn't bother saving it to my hard drive, which tells you how much I cared for it.

 

FBI v. Chris Candido/Lance Storm - 3/6/98 (TV)

Right, very strong match, maybe my FBI (Smothers version) favourite.

 

FBI v. Nova/Blue Meanie - ECW FanCam 5-29-98

It was allright for shits and giggles, but Meanie & Nova really sucks. I don't care about this series that much.

 

FBI v. Axl Rotten/Balls Mahoney - A Matter of Respect 98

The post match was awesome. The match, not so much, but the fact Smothers & Guido made me watch an entire Axl & Balls match without FF is something it itself.

 

FBI v. Tommy Rogers/Sammy Solo - ECW FanCam 10-4-98

Don't think I've seen that one.

 

What is notable to me here is that this is a team that could have good matches against very limited talent, was really consistent, was really adaptable to their opponent, was the total package with Rich as their Cornette, and really seemed to have "the best matches" of every team they worked against. Seriously that Elims match, Candido/Storm match, Balls/Axl match and Nova/Meanie match are the best matches those teams ever had in my estimation and I don't think it is a coincidence that they were against Smothers/Guido.

They were an excellent team, no doubt about that. The issue is bad opposition. We'll never know how they would have fare with quality opponents. The Candido/Storm hints that they would have ruled (and by quality opponent I mean Candido here), but I can't in good conscience put them ahead of teams who did had lots of really excellent matches.

 

Thanks for the Highflyers reviews.

 

 

Three things.

 

First is that the Eliminators match is a serious contender for one of the ten best matches in ECW history and is as good as any WWF tag match I've ever seen.

 

Second thing is that the Spike/Dreamer match is from Queens. They had two of them worked similarly and both were great. Of the four people I know who have seen those matches everyone agrees that they were great matches.

 

Finally I couldn't in good conscience put them in front of teams with a bunch of excellent matches either. I just don't recall a lot of these teams have excellent matches. I think the Nasty Boys have more high end matches than most of the teams that have been listed to be honest.

[JerryvonKramer]

Dylan, how come the fact that it was difficult to point to great Hart Foundation or Bulldogs matches counted against them, despite the fact that they never had any bad matches, but for Smothers and Guido allowances are made for where and who they wrestled?

 

It seems like a double standard.

[El-P]

First is that the Eliminators match is a serious contender for one of the ten best matches in ECW history and is as good as any WWF tag match I've ever seen.

I can buy it being good. I have trouble buying it being great since the Elims were still a pretty mediocre tag team at very best.

 

Second thing is that the Spike/Dreamer match is from Queens. They had two of them worked similarly and both were great. Of the four people I know who have seen those matches everyone agrees that they were great matches.

Well, I didn't made my cut obviously because I've seen that Queens show. Good for the four people who thought it was great.

 

Finally I couldn't in good conscience put them in front of teams with a bunch of excellent matches either. I just don't recall a lot of these teams have excellent matches. I think the Nasty Boys have more high end matches than most of the teams that have been listed to be honest.

To me The Nasty Boys have been part of exactly zero high end matches in their career. I know people are going gaga over the Steiner match from 90, but to me it's ridiculously overrated. Ditto the brawls in 94. Can't think of any "pimped as high end matches" the Nasties would be involved in.

[JerryvonKramer]

Nasties vs. Road Warrior Hawk and Sting from Starrcade '93 is quite overlooked, and it's despite going in as champs the Nasties are clearly the underdogs.

 

Nasties vs. Maxx Payne and Cactus Jack from the very next PPV (Superbrawl IV) and, in face, the rematch from Spring Stampede '94 are also, I'd argue, "high end". That was probably the best spell of the Nasty Boys's career.

 

I don't really like them at all, but those three matches are very good.

 

EDIT: I just went and looked up my little review of Starrcade '93 (see website), to see what I said about that Hawk/ Sting vs. Nasties match, here you go:

 

Speaking of smarks not really getting wrestling, here are three reviews of Hawk/ Sting vs. The Nasty Boys:

 

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/video_re...de-%5C%5C93.htm

 

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/video_re...tarrcade-93.htm

 

http://wcwrules4lyf.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/starrcade-1993/

 

All three of them crap on this match, presumably because they don't like the Nasties. I mean hell, I HATE the Nasties.

 

But during this one I said to myself: "this is the best Nasty Boys match I have seen".

 

See, despite being champs they were going into this as underdogs because they were up against ROAD WARRIOR HAWK and STING. Even Ventura had to concede that they were up against it. But they took control. They delivered slams and suplexes. Missy Hyatt created diversions where necessary. They wrestled a smart match and got the result they wanted against two better and stronger wrestlers.

 

Ok not ***** but decent, solid, interesting stuff. It's worth ** minimum, I'd give it ***.

 

This, I believe, is the difference between watching something while suspending your disbelief -- as I always try to to do -- and watching something with the cold and sneering gaze of a "smart" fan who is just noting the botched slams or analysing technique. I don't believe those people understand wrestling. I believe they have contributed to ruining wrestling as much as anyone. "Someone do me a favor and call into Meltzer's show tomorrow night and ask about that finish, would you? I suspect it was botched", writes Scott Keith. "Oh just shut up", says I!

[Dylan Waco]

Dylan, how come the fact that it was difficult to point to great Hart Foundation or Bulldogs matches counted against them, despite the fact that they never had any bad matches, but for Smothers and Guido allowances are made for where and who they wrestled?

 

It seems like a double standard.

There is no double standard. The problem is you keep assuming I accept your views on the WWF teams and I don't.

 

I don't except the view that the HF and Bulldogs didn't have bad matches or were as consistent as the FBI. I actually thought the Bulldogs had quite a few weak matches when I was watching the 24/7 stuff regularly and going back and watching 80's WWF a few years back. I think the HF was a better team than them and more consistent but they had more than a few matches I thought were boring or mediocre. I can't say the same thing for the FBI despite the fact that on the average night they probably had less to work with than either the Bulldogs or the HF.

 

Also if we are talking U.S. work I have NEVER seen a HF or Bulldogs match I thought was as good as FBI v. Eliminators and I'm not sure I have seen one I thought was as good as the Candido/Storm or Spike/Dreamer matches either.

[Dylan Waco]

First is that the Eliminators match is a serious contender for one of the ten best matches in ECW history and is as good as any WWF tag match I've ever seen.

I can buy it being good. I have trouble buying it being great since the Elims were still a pretty mediocre tag team at very best.

 

Second thing is that the Spike/Dreamer match is from Queens. They had two of them worked similarly and both were great. Of the four people I know who have seen those matches everyone agrees that they were great matches.

Well, I didn't made my cut obviously because I've seen that Queens show. Good for the four people who thought it was great.

 

Finally I couldn't in good conscience put them in front of teams with a bunch of excellent matches either. I just don't recall a lot of these teams have excellent matches. I think the Nasty Boys have more high end matches than most of the teams that have been listed to be honest.

To me The Nasty Boys have been part of exactly zero high end matches in their career. I know people are going gaga over the Steiner match from 90, but to me it's ridiculously overrated. Ditto the brawls in 94. Can't think of any "pimped as high end matches" the Nasties would be involved in.

 

Shock of shocks we disagree on the Nasty's. I'll take WarGames 94, the three best matches v. Cactus and friends, the two best Scorp/Bagwell matches, there 88 match v. the RnR's, and the Steiners match as as good or better than pretty much any HF or Bulldogs match I've seen. I also think they had one of the four or five best HF matches come to think of it.

[El-P]

I also think they had one of the four or five best HF matches come to think of it.

The WM 8 match ? Last time I checked it wasn't even a good match with those horrible Nasty Boys restholds control segments and shitty finish.

[Dylan Waco]

I also think they had one of the four or five best HF matches come to think of it.

The WM 8 match ? Last time I checked it wasn't even a good match with those horrible Nasty Boys restholds control segments and shitty finish.

 

I don't recall hating the finish or thinking it was dense with restholds. Upon last viewing it was definitely one of the better Hart Foundation matches I had seen and that was during a period where I was watching a shitload of WWF.

[El-P]

There was a great match at WM7, and that was Rockers vs Barbie & Haku. It's too bad these two were never pushed seriously together at that time.

 

I gotta say one thing about this thread, it only reminds me how fun tag team wrestling used to be.