NintendoLogic Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Zack Ryder didn't have merchandise until two weeks ago, which is exactly when he was put on tv more regularly. He's had merch since at least January. A big part of the reason people were wondering why he wasn't getting pushed more was because his stuff was selling at a rate far out of proportion to his spot on the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 It's Zack Ryder. If he sold one shirt it would be far out of proportion to his push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 With the stories about Punk talking Creative out of the original plan of HHH laying him out, the impression I got was that Punk could lobby just like anyone else, but if Vince put his foot down, there wasn't anything he could do about it.He can just refuse to go out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 And get suspended without pay. Or eventually get fired. Â Given he signed the contract, it would appear that Punk values WWE cash, and his own potential short term earnings, more than folks thought. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Punk's interview with Mark Madden was a fun little deal. With Mark trying his best outdo Punk with some hard questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 And get suspended without pay. Or eventually get fired. Â Given he signed the contract, it would appear that Punk values WWE cash, and his own potential short term earnings, more than folks thought. Â John We both know it wouldn't come to that. They don't have the roster depth to get rid of a guy like Punk, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 And get suspended without pay. Or eventually get fired. Â Given he signed the contract, it would appear that Punk values WWE cash, and his own potential short term earnings, more than folks thought. He came back for a secure main event slot with creative fulfillment. It's too much to pass up, even with how good he is with his money. They know he's gone if they come up with something really stupid. Plus, now that Austin is clearly leaning more strongly towards doing the WM match with Punk, he has even more leverage than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 So Punk is the new Shawn who will say no to anything he doesn't like and get away with it. Somehow... I'm not buying that. Â Nor as good as Punk as with his money (allegedly), he is also a smart guy who knows that he isn't going to be in his profession at the age of 50, nor likely raking in good income at that point unless it's off investments that he's built up off what he makes in his prime money making days, i.e. now. Â You say he signed the contract because he valued "secure main event slot". He's not going to piss away that value by saying "no" if the company really wants him to do something, no matter how stupid it is. Â Punk is going to end up closer to Rock and Cena than any of his fans want to admit. At a certain point, especially after getting himself "established" as a regular top of the card guy, he's just going to sit back and let the company do whatever it wants, not get stressed out about it, and cash the check. Then try to play the next contract extension for another round of good cash. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 We both know it wouldn't come to that. They don't have the roster depth to get rid of a guy like Punk, They haven't had depth for years. Doesn't mean they wouldn't suspend him if he continually refuses to proform. Nor at a certain point fire him if he doesn't do what they want. Â We don't see it much before people don't refuse. When we typically set it, drugs are the reason. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wasn't it Meltzer who was saying that even before the contract situation came up, Punk was forming a relationship with Vince similar to HBK's, where Vince will run ideas past him before bringing them to the rest of the booking team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wasn't it Meltzer who was saying that even before the contract situation came up, Punk was forming a relationship with Vince similar to HBK's, where Vince will run ideas past him before bringing them to the rest of the booking team? That was Keller no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 MKJ? Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Fucking Shad Gasspard refused to job on TV and was not fired for about a year. I'm pretty sure Punk has enough leverage to not be jobbed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I look forward to watching people twist themselves into a pretzel to "explain" the first time Punk rolls over and does what the WWE wants in a storyline that makes him look bad. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I look forward to watching people twist themselves into a pretzel to "explain" the first time Punk rolls over and does what the WWE wants in a storyline that makes him look bad. Â John It's still real to them, dammit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 If he does it he does it. But I don't think its likely. He's been protected since he got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm about 75% certain Punk must have stiffed jdw on a tape trading deal or something based on how he immediately jumps to the most negative outcome possible to any situation and assumes it's the most likely result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm just puzzled that John even gives a shit. I wasn't even aware he watched or followed the modern product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm puzzled why someone would "autograph" the end of each of their posts, but what the fuck do I know? Â Anyway, I think we'll see how things pan out in the next couple of weeks. This Summerslam on Sunday will be the first big indicator. Then the RAW the next night to see what Punk will be doing. It could go a lot of ways. If Punk eats a Pedigree and loses the title, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm puzzled why someone would "autograph" the end of each of their posts, but what the fuck do I know? Waaaay back in the dark ages of the internet, message boards didn't have user-names attached to them. A lot of times it was just a number/id, so you had to sign a name to make people realize it was you. I figure he just kept that habit over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I look forward to watching people twist themselves into a pretzel to "explain" the first time Punk rolls over and does what the WWE wants in a storyline that makes him look bad. Â John I'd argue that's already happened two RAWs ago, when Punk was competing with Cena in a "Who can preen to the crowd the most?" battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 To be fair, jdw's comment is little about Punk and more about fans of Punk who have shifted the goal posts multiple times and continued to defend the angle even as it has clearly fallen off the rails.  To me, Punk returning one week after leaving -- and coming out with entrance music blaring over the loud speakers through the official WWE entrance ramp no less -- succeeded in:  * Turning this into just another angle * Breaking continuity * Making Punk seem indecisive and whiny, and incapable of keeping his word * Making Cena seem fake for being willing to call himself a new champion after losing the belt cleanly * Cutting Punk's legs off while weakening Cena even more with the same audience that they supposedly want him to be stronger with  Really, maybe you could say the angle fell off the rails when it became about HHH assuming the Vince role. From there on, the Punk storyline has been used to get over HHH's new role more than HHH's new role has been used to get over the Punk storyline. Yes, Punk gets good one-liners on him in promos, but that's small beans. HHH taking over the company is a far bigger angle than Punk whining, quitting, coming back and whining some more.  Backing up even more, reeeaallly, maybe you could say the angle fell off the rails when they had a tournament to crown a new champion. They essentially no sold Punk walking out with the gold. Vince gave a speech about no one guy being bigger than the company, which is fine as a business philosophy, but not as a storyline. Punk left with the title. Raw should have been a show in chaos and disarray, with people scrambling around and no one knowing what to do. Having a champion is what keeps the promotion going. I know they don't even want to refer themselves as a worked sport, but why even wrestle if there's nothing to strive for? The champ is NOT here. They could have put over the title big time. Wrestlers doing interviews asking why to even bother if there is no championship to compete for, leading to more walkouts, or even jumps to Smackdown. "Raw is falling apart at the seams" would have made for good TV at least. Instead, they just tried to move on. It shows how intrinsic they are to their own inability to get new people over in a significant way -- so much so that they can't pretend to sell that someone leaving hurts the promotion. Instead, we got an HHH continuing every single Vince policy, acknowledging his bogus tournament, not changing anything about the show -- in doing this, they also shot themselves in the foot in getting HHH's new role over as anything that has consequences. It's like they forget this is a work and have worked themselves.  This angle has also gotten waaaay too inside-y and it's hard for me to dispute that. I don't mean the fourth wall reference or that Punk is allowed to say things others aren't. I also don't mean that Punk's contract is part of the story. Contracts are a staple of even old school wrestling. I remember in 1986 when the Freebirds held the UWF up for multi-million dollar contracts as part of their debuting angle, to get them over as heels. So it's not a new concept and not one I have a problem with. The angle being more about who runs the company, who hires and fires people and locker room unhappiness is what makes it too inside-y.  Then you get into the Punk character's philosophy which also annoys me. It's more important to him that he has a microphone than it is that he has a championship, yet Cena is the guy who never wanted to be a professional wrestler. That's what annoys me -- that for all of his talk about wrestling, he acts like a guy that would rather talk about being a wrestler than actually be a wrestler. He thinks he gets his power through talking instead of through winning matches. I'm sure Phil Brooks the guy was a fan of great talkers growing up, but in the context of a wrestling show, the talking should facilitate the wrestling instead of the wrestling facilitating the talking. In a kayfabe sense, you don't gain power by having "great" matches or getting more mic time, you gain power by WINNING. Why is no one talking about this? Why is the fact that Punk beat Cena not the focus of this buildup instead of a sidebar to it?  This is a flawed, flawed angle. And I'm someone who really wanted to like it, defended it at first and still thinks it's one of the best things WWE has done in a long time. But that alone says it all -- that something with this many problems is the best thing they've done in a long time is more a poor reflection on WWE than a positive reflection on this angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I think the most interesting thing about it is how they've course changed from what they initially wanted to do (get HHH over and give Cena a hot summer opponent) to create sort of a squishy medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 To be fair, jdw's comment is little about Punk and more about fans of Punk who have shifted the goal posts multiple times and continued to defend the angle even as it has clearly fallen off the rails. That. Â Along with most of the rest of the post as well. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm puzzled why someone would "autograph" the end of each of their posts, but what the fuck do I know? jdw = ? Â Same with any of the handles. So I've also put my name at the end. A new poster get's that it's John. Â Old habit. Probably one I'm not going to break. Be thankful I've given up the old usenet form of quoting text. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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