Bix Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 He's right, he kept up usenet style quoting for years and it took us all forever to shame him out of it. Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 He's right, he kept up usenet style quoting for years and it took us all forever to shame him out of it. Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks. Speaking of sigs and what have you: Bix can you update yours with the new site/your page there? It's a bit of a quagmire to get through using more conventional means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Sure, I'll link the main section and my profile page and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I would argue if anything is making this angle "fall off the rails" it would be from having the target audience for all the insider shooty style comments over analyze the shit out of every detail looking for reasons to dislike the angle/have no faith in it/convince themselves it's going to fail. Yes, it did lose focus two weeks ago when it seemed like it was building a Punk-HHH match that (for the moment at least) isn't happening instead of SummerSlam. Yes, the inability of WWE to consistently do long term planning has hurt it in the sense that everything they do gets redone a million times before airtime. However consider that before this started Punk was the leader of a group of jobbers and not really seen as much of a threat to the main eventers. Now he's over fairly big as a top babyface and is main eventing two PPVs in a row, including their #2 (or #3 if you want to argue) show of the year. At this point I would say it achieved the goal of making a guy a bigger deal, and unless he gets the Booker T treatment at some point down the line I don't see this being a flop in the "it didn't get anyone over or make any money" sense since the last PPV did better numbers for a B show and his merch is flying off the shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks... I have no idea what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I would argue if anything is making this angle "fall off the rails" it would be from having the target audience for all the insider shooty style comments over analyze the shit out of every detail looking for reasons to dislike the angle/have no faith in it/convince themselves it's going to fail. Yes, it did lose focus two weeks ago when it seemed like it was building a Punk-HHH match that (for the moment at least) isn't happening instead of SummerSlam. Yes, the inability of WWE to consistently do long term planning has hurt it in the sense that everything they do gets redone a million times before airtime. However consider that before this started Punk was the leader of a group of jobbers and not really seen as much of a threat to the main eventers. Now he's over fairly big as a top babyface and is main eventing two PPVs in a row, including their #2 (or #3 if you want to argue) show of the year. At this point I would say it achieved the goal of making a guy a bigger deal, and unless he gets the Booker T treatment at some point down the line I don't see this being a flop in the "it didn't get anyone over or make any money" sense since the last PPV did better numbers for a B show and his merch is flying off the shelves. This is exactly the switch in goal posts I was talking about. This has gone from Punk can be a megastar to Punk is headlining PPVs (which I would like to remind everyone, he has been doing for a few years anyway -- he has even headlined Summerslam before). His stock has definitely risen from all of this and he has a higher profile, but let's see where he is a year from now. Hopefully, he's still in a main event spot, but he was already in a main event spot, having wrestled Cena many times. Will they try to build around him? We'll see. And I'd rather blame the promotion for putting out disappointing stuff than blame fans who point it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 And even that SummerSlam with Punk as a headliner was a case of him being the perfect antagonist versus a red-hot Jeff Hardy. Jury was still out on Punk as a main eventer. He's in a better position now (even if said position two years ago wasn't bad) but how things last long term for the guy remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 It was also on Smackdown and not Raw. Remember, Christian (and I'm the biggest Christian fan we have) has main evented the last 4 WWE PPVs on the SD side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 If we're going to talk goalposts, what about all the talk (not necessarily on here but I've seen it on other places) that MITB was going to do 200k+ buys which was completely unrealistic for a B level show that WWE more or less conditions people is skippable. When the early numbers came in higher than previous levels for that PPV but lower than inflated expectations there were renewed cries of "THIS ANGLE IS A FAILURE". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. It annoyed me more there was not one comment from Christian that he was the only World Champion WWE needed. This angle turned Smackdown into ECW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Perhaps the tourney was logical in some way, but I agree with Loss' point about the general execution of that RAW, in that there was no panic, chaos, whatever. It was just "business as usual", everything calm, management has everything under control. All this after Vince panicking about not being able to keep Punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks... I have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody on Earth, including his mom, calls him Phil Brooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. It annoyed me more there was not one comment from Christian that he was the only World Champion WWE needed. This angle turned Smackdown into ECW. Or Ziggler, past a twitter comment, saying that he was now the #1 guy on Raw since he had the IC Belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks... I have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody on Earth, including his mom, calls him Phil Brooks. Okay, I will refrain from calling him Phil Brooks. I made a long post about the overall angle, and THAT is what you choose to respond to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I made a long post about the overall angle, and THAT is what you choose to respond to? If we could sum up this entire note with one sentence.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. It annoyed me more there was not one comment from Christian that he was the only World Champion WWE needed. This angle turned Smackdown into ECW. Of course it was a logical decision, that was the problem with it. Vince should have been so freaked out over Punk leaving with the title that he was unable to think logically, even if it was only for one week. Maybe HHH comes in the next week and says he's in, everyone has a clean slate and there will be a tournament with the finals at Summerslam -- which ends up being Cena vs Rey. Punk continues angling this from the outside, and says WWE will NEVER crown another champion and he will see to it ... even if he has to go Summerslam himself to stop it. HHH says if he steps in the building, he will be arrested. Boom, there's your selling point. Rey vs Cena with Rey trying to win the title in his hometown and Punk buying a front row ticket and trying to muck up the match. Angle continues, Punk comes back but not really, the Vince removal is more founded, HHH gets over as the guy with the cooler head, Rey gets the hometown heat that Punk had a month earlier. You could have a wild scene with Rey going over, cops restraining Punk, Punk swinging at HHH as he's taken out of the building ... there are quite a few directions you could go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. It annoyed me more there was not one comment from Christian that he was the only World Champion WWE needed. This angle turned Smackdown into ECW. Of course it was a logical decision, that was the problem with it. Vince should have been so freaked out over Punk leaving with the title that he was unable to think logically, even if it was only for one week. I should make you all read my Montreal Manifesto post again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Oh well, at least we`ll always have Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. It annoyed me more there was not one comment from Christian that he was the only World Champion WWE needed. This angle turned Smackdown into ECW. Of course it was a logical decision, that was the problem with it. Vince should have been so freaked out over Punk leaving with the title that he was unable to think logically, even if it was only for one week. I should make you all read my Montreal Manifesto post again. Perhaps time has proven you right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 They nullified everything unique and interesting about the MITB scenario by having him come back as a normal member of the roster 8 days later. The whole point of the angle was that WWE would spin into chaos if their world champ walked away. That's why Vince was panicked and determined not to let it happen and threatened to fire Cena if he lost. It made Punk come across as special, like a real outsider who controlled the fate of the company. To have him stroll out after 8 days like nothing ever happened and go back to business as normal made everything pointless. It was probably a victim of monthly PPVs, because this was the hottest thing they had going and they needed something big for SummerSlam. They ended up getting no attendance or ratings boost from it, and I think it could have made a difference if they had played it out over 2-3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Also, I thought Loss knew better than to refer to Punk as Phil Brooks... I have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody on Earth, including his mom, calls him Phil Brooks. Okay, I will refrain from calling him Phil Brooks. I made a long post about the overall angle, and THAT is what you choose to respond to? I was kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I made a long post about the overall angle, and THAT is what you choose to respond to? For the record, that post was money and you hit the nail on the head. But what is there to discuss at this point? It's a wait-and-see approach right now for me. I could speculate based on the past history of WWE, but that would not get us anywhere. Like I said earlier, I think Summerslam and RAW next week will be the real indicators of what is going to happen. The angle is already a lot worse off than it initially had potential to be, for sure. WWE just blow their load too damn quick. Cena when he was fired never even missed RAW. Punk when he "left with the title!" only missed one show. So much potential but it was completely squandered. Not just with the tournament that you mentioned, or the Triple H promo when Punk came back ("at the end of the day, you're just a guy who held out for more money") but because it kills more faith in WWE fans too. RAW is a show that you don't have to watch anymore. Everything you need to know about RAW will be highlighted in a 2-minute video package before the PPV starts. They lack compelling television. When the highlight of your show is a performer making fun of your show/company, that should be a pretty damn big sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 He's right, he kept up usenet style quoting for years and it took us all forever to shame him out of it. It wasn't wrestling boards that shamed me into doing it. Sports boards were what finally made me figure out how that quoting function worked. Which annoyed people more: my usnet quoting, or Frank's hard return newspaper style short sentences? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holding a tournament for the belt was a logical decision. By all accounts Punk vacated the title. Did he? Sunday: Punk wins Title. Monday: Punk does various stunts with Title (baseball game? Frig?) Monday Evening: Vince strips Punk of title Monday Evening: Vince puts on Tourney I don't think there is any account of Punk vacating the title before Vince's decision to hold a tourney. If he wanted to vacate it, he wouldn't have taken off with it... not put it in his frig... or kept carrying it around until he came back. In fact, when he came back he was claiming to be the champ. The general storyline was that Vince said Punk wasn't the champ anymore since Vince has the power to do it (his company after all), and decide to create a new house champ. In the storyline, Punk never stopped claiming he was the champ, and clearly is claiming to be champ heading into SummerSlam. So there is WWE storyline "logic" for the tourney, but not due to it being vacated. I think people's problems with the tourney is that it was just a dumbass storyline to do from start to finish to epilogue. Russo can explain the "logic" behind some of his storyline decisions. Doesn't mean that the decision/choice wasn't a bad one. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Another issue with this storyline being given proper spacing is that we have to hustle through Vengeance, Night of Champions, and Hell in the Cell over the next two months. It's just a killer with their roster depth. The scheduling was manageable in the days of single-brand PPVs, but impossible to create fulfilling storylines with now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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