Dylan Waco Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Of course regular WWE fans have bagged on the angle at various points myself included. If I wrote anything in this thread to suggest or imply otherwise I retract it right now - but I don't believe I have. I don't doubt that the highest percentage of people supportive of the angle have been Punk fans. That's akin to saying the fans happiest with the Super Bowl result last year were Green Bay fans. Though I am curious how one would define a "Punk Fan" using the jdw double cap/proper noun Having said that.... I actually think if we looked close at those who don't like the angle and have been very high on the criticism the highest % would be folks who have long since given up on the WWE and are at best casual viewers. There may be a variety of reasons for this, but I do not think it is a coincidence. Noting that fans have loved parts of this angle more than others isn't surprising either. I've been back and forth on it a few times myself and I'm probably as much of a guy that could be dismissed with the WWE Luv label as you will find on this board. The disagreements are more nuanced than "this is the greatest thing ever" v. "this is a total failure" but the two types of fans engaged in the discussion are not going to be able to find any common ground if they can't get past "WWE Luv" v. "WWE Hate" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 In the last couple of weeks I haven't written much about anything because of personal and computer issues even though I have been around. With that said, my computer is up and running and I have tuned into RAW every week since the Punk angle started and still keep tuning in. I want to go week by week and see where the angle went and see some pros and cons... Greatest Promo Ever - Holy Shit moment, not just because of the "shooty" nature but how effective it was in gaining mainstream exposure AND putting over the main event of the upcoming PPV. Whether it succeeded or not is up to debate but universally praised. Punk is Suspended - This was hurt by the fact they had to tape two shows in one night. I groaned at the Cena Will Be Fired shit at the time but was intrigued by Cena's promo insisting he face Punk. Still had reason to tune in the next week because the RAW bookends felt so different than what they had been pumping out the last few years. Punk + Vince - The chemistry between these two was sick. In a perfect world, all roads lead to Punk vs. McMahon because this was some Grade A PPV selling stuff. The Yankees comment, the altercation at the end... all left no doubt I was ordering this PPV. MITB - MOTY with a holy shit finish that made the fallout from RAW a must see. Watching this was a surreal experience and the entire PPV delivered. Well worth every dollar spent. Night after PPV - Vince announcing a tournament and acting like Punk never existed is exactly how you would expect to Vince to act... business as usual. I like the idea Loss put forward with the WWF in disarray and everyone going batshit more than what happened but from a logical standpoint, Vince did what he was supposed to. The HHH-Vince stuff I wasn't crazy about at all but the power switch was interesting enough for me to watch again the following week to see who would be crowned paper champion. Paper Champion Finals + Punk's Return - Rey's title win felt like a nice feel good moment and it was ruined by that opportunistic corporate whore, Cena. With that siad, Rey delivers two awesome matches and at least the show delivered on that note. Then Punk returns. WTF? Why did he return? Gotta tune in next week. Plus Cult of Personlaity... Fuck Yeah! With that said, I agree 100% that he returned too early. I would have loved for him to stay viral longer. I wanted to know how he would logically explain the change of heart. Punk's Explanation + Dueling Theme Music. - I thought Punk's reasoning was sound and the interaction with HHH was not too shooty but stuff that could clearly be derived from keeping up with the WWE product during HHH's run. Logical reason for a return but not what I wanted to happen. Hated the stuff with Johnny Ace, HHH, Cena and Punk at the end of the show with the dueling theme music. I could see why people would bail on the angle at this point but there was still a go home show before the PPV so I tuned in to see how they brought it home. Main Event Contract Signing - I had no problem with this segment at all. Loved the back and forth between Cena and Punk. Cena may be corny but at least I am starting to believe what he has to say. The intrigue over how HHH would fuck with the finish was enough for me to check out the PPV. Mission accomplished. At this point, I am not fantasy booking the same way i was when dreaming about Punk defending the title in a shoot match against Davey Richards in ROH as best friend Colt Cabana watches his back in the locker room but still invested in the storyline. Summerslam - Another MOTYC. The HHH finish protects Cena, protects Punk, transitions to Del Rio without burying Punk, introduces HHH's buddy as the guy who cost Punk the title, still allows HHH to play face COO and made damn sure I was going to tune into RAW to see how it all played out. MMission accomplished. Tonight So Far... Del Rio is over and looks giddy as fuck to be champion. PLenty of answers needed from the fallout fo the PPV. Hooked me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Oh and I did that by memory. When was the last time you could follow a logical progression in a WWE storyline week by week and have something memorable happen every week where you could recite two months worth of storylines? And as Loss, Dylan, Naylor, Phil, Eric, and Chlds can testify... I have a shitty memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Intriguing so far tonight, the Punk/Nash promo was gold, Nash looked legitimately pissed. The logical conclusion of the 'Who Text Nash' angle is that Del Rio stole HHH's phone or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think Steph did the text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Security protecting Punk from Nash looked ridiculous. Turned out it was Punk who brought up shooty bullshit. Its a good thing Punk has been winning lately. Otherwise his current gimmick would make him look like a wimpy coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think Steph did the textYup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Intriguing so far tonight, the Punk/Nash promo was gold, Nash looked legitimately pissed. The logical conclusion of the 'Who Text Nash' angle is that Del Rio stole HHH's phone or something.H's must have left his phone in the white hummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I compare this angle to late 95/early 96 WCW and ECW booking. Suprise booking that really excited me and motivated me to watch more and more to see what happens. Did those angles and this one make complete sense and necessarily feature great booking? Probably not but I loved it and wanted more of it. Much like this angle. Will that wear off? Yeah but I'm enjoying it right now and yup Steph sent the text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Not to be too snarky, but if that`s the best we can expect from Nash in 2011, it`s probably best for everyone concerned if he quickly takes a bad step, blows a quad, and disappears. He just seemed lost and totally out of touch on the mic tonight. Maybe he just needs to get his "sea legs" back or something. Still, I think anything more than an odd comeo here and there would be too much Nash at this stage in the game. Still a good angle, but things like bad Nash promos and giving Steph more and more screen time are tempting the wrestlecrap gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 What I like about the angle, aside from some fun promo work, is that the title is being treated as important. I mentioned this in another post as a throwaway line but I really believe it: WWE likely will not get behind someone unless Triple H feels they take the business as seriously as he does. Hunter has complained in interviews that no one is a "student of the game" or has any appreciation for the sport's history like he does. Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, and the Rock didn't exactly bleed WWE and I don't doubt that some on top use this to their advantage. For those reasons I imagine WWE will continue as usual: People like Miz and Punk will get a few token pushes here and there until ultimately being gobbled up by the two guys who are still left from the "Attitude" era until the next overnight sensation shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Cena's promo at the end of the night showed how you give him a harder edge without turning him heel. Some people seem to Cena has to be cardboard cutout to stay popular with kids. I remember seeing one or two kids cheering Steve Austin back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 For quite a while now, I’ve been giving WWE the benefit of the doubt on booking direction, because I liked the potential of the story they were telling so much. I should have known better. All signs point to the WWE booking team being as inept as ever, with no clue on how to capitalize on a great story that’s easy to tell. The CM Punk storyline was really smart for a number of big reasons. For one, it felt real. The story of wrestlers who don’t like today’s corporate WWE against the forces who like that WWE just fine had the potential to involve disillusioned fans and infuse real stakes into the product. For two, it was fresh. Rather than the same guys feuding in the same way, it offered something that felt genuinely different. Yet here we are just two months later, and where are we? Well, the title’s now on Alberto Del Rio, an 80s style cartoon character without any semblance of reality and who doesn’t fit into the story of fresh, rebellious newcomers into the established status quo at all. He’s fresh but his whole character is that he has been gifted all the advantages in the world. He’s clearly what WWE looks for, but isn’t associated as one of their most favored acts. The story they are teasing is he’s the chosen corporate champ feuding with the upstarts Cena and Punk, and that dynamic is all wrong. It’s the same idea, but the wrestlers are miscast in roles that don’t have the reality that made the angle interesting. And Del Rio’s immediate adversary? Why, John Cena of course. It’s Cena vs. Generic Heel for the title part 82,347. Then there’s the matter of CM Punk. They’re kind of playing with the idea that Punk was screwed by the establishment at SummerSlam, but really it’s not much of a claim given that he only beat Cena because of HHH. Cena, who doesn’t fit as an anti-authority figure in the slightest, has the strongest claim to being screwed by the authority. Punk, meanwhile, is trading insider jabs with a 52-year-old man with a broken down body and a long established history of burying the guys he’s supposed to be getting over. Punk’s back in the middle while they try to transfer what he has to Cena, which isn’t going to work. With the battle for the future direction of the WWE pretty much settled (status quo wins), we’re left with titles as the main hook for the top programs. That’s a shame, because after a period of hotshotting on top of hotshotting, they’ve changed their two top titles seven times in the past month. Week-to-week booking and individual “surprises” trump a focused, long term direction. So, we’re back pretty much where we started. This show wasn’t bad from an entertainment standpoint. It had a couple good matches and the Punk/Nash segment was interesting if nothing else. WWE has enough talent that they aren’t going to produce terrible shows week in and week out. But my hope that WWE could get people genuinely invested in the product again and turn around the steady long term declines in their key business indicators is pretty much gone. It’s the same old shit and I was a fool to have expected any different. Todd Martin can anyone make sense of that? I'm not saying he potentially isn't making good points but I have no idea what they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Nash needs to stick to looking menacing and power bombing dudes. I think this goes back to when he won the WWF title in 94. The more Nash talks the less appealing he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Punk is not "back in the middle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Well, the title’s now on Alberto Del Rio, an 80s style cartoon character without any semblance of realitySomeone should let Beast know that the Del Rio gimmick is based on how he and uncle Mil act in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Well, the title’s now on Alberto Del Rio, an 80s style cartoon character without any semblance of realitySomeone should let Beast know that the Del Rio gimmick is based on how he and uncle Mil act in real life. Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I remember Dave chuckling when the character debuted about how much it was more or less just Mil's shoot personality. I wonder if WWE came up with it or if Alberto pulled a Scott Hall and convinced Vince he came up with this great character that was just a copy of something Vince wasn't aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 And I really don't see Del Rio as a "cartoon character". At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 And I really don't see Del Rio as a "cartoon character". At all. Jeez some of that gurning he did last night in his promo would make you think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 And I really don't see Del Rio as a "cartoon character". At all. Jeez some of that gurning he did last night in his promo would make you think otherwise. Gurning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Del Rio sticking his tongue out while doing his promo isn't whatever that is. Jesus Christ, speak English. Duke The Dumpster Droese is a "cartoon character". Adam Bomb is a "cartoon character". Del Rio isn't a cartoon character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Also being excited you won the WWE title isn't being a cartoon character either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hell, The Rock is more of a cartoon character than Del Rio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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