HHH taking over from Vince on RAW

[cm funk]

I also think losing their network TV spot for SD really killed whatever access they had to the Latino American market, a demo that was already in decline, so there probably isn't the same sense of urgency to exploit that potential audience. Del Rio's face push comes off like a halfhearted and halfassed attempt because someone decided without Rey and Cara around they needed to have a latino face

[Guest Andrews]

They were ready to make Kharma a big deal but her situation killed that dead.

Probably could have used more appropriate words, but I get your point.

[tomk]

Karma and Sin Cara were both great pick-ups. The way it ended sucked but you absolutely cannot fault them for actually signing them.

Someone want to walk through what made either of them great pick-ups?

 

I can't speak for Kharma, but how was Sin Cara not a great pickup? Meltzer, for example, talks about him as a HOF-worthy draw from Mexico.

 

 

Konan is a HOF worthy draw from Mexico too.

Would anyone suggest that he would be a smart signing?

 

I think Sin Cara was a transparently bad pick up in hindsight.

"in hindsight"?

 

The WWF started discussion of picking up Mistico in 06, Mistico was talking about wanting to leave to go to WWF as early as 07. They had five years. Five years to find out that he had a rep as a backstage headcase. Five years to realize that he was a guy who used supplements. Five years to figure out what his strengths and weaknesses were, what he brought to the table and whether his skill set was appropriate for what it is that the WWF does.

 

People discussed all of the ways in which he would and would not fit in with WWF as early as 06. I probably have more positive things to say about Mistico than anyone on the WKO other than Tim Evans. But he failed in really really predictable ways.

 

I don't see any reason to pretend that we live in a world where HHH couldn't watch some Mistico matches, or do some research...and instead signed him and was just surprised by what he got.

 

Kharma got over instantly, I don't see how anyone can argue signing her was a bad idea.

Vader was over instantly. Monster Ripper in her hillbilly gimmick was shockingly over when they first signed her.

They had no idea what to do with Vader, and while they had an idea for Ripper (and then had Madusa and Galactica to work with her...I'm not sure who the equivalent is that they had ready for Karma) it's not like they did much with her.

[Ditch]

A creative failure is not a talent development failure. How does creative failure and/or bad life events lead to saying Kharma was a bad signing? Big difference between her and Mistico, who wasn't adept at US style wrestling, didn't speak the language, and almost certainly has a much bigger contract.

[NintendoLogic]

Even if Kharma's first few months had gone according to plan, what was she supposed to do after murdering all the Barbie dolls? You can only run Kharma/Beth so many times.

[tomk]

A creative failure is not a talent development failure. How does creative failure and/or bad life events lead to saying Kharma was a bad signing? Big difference between her and Mistico, who wasn't adept at US style wrestling, didn't speak the language, and almost certainly has a much bigger contract.

The wwe is a formula fed (yes a lot of their formula stuff they aren't doing successfully right now).

I would say that Laughter7 was the best tag team from japan last year ( I liked the one time Sano tagged with Aoyagi too) but if you were recommending people to WWE developmental would you recommend Laughter7?

Hiring is about bringing in folks who can work in your organization.

Is there a hiring headhunter who would say "This guy I hired for you was great you just failed to rebuild the organization around him"?

Would you contract with that headhunter?

 

I doubt Karma was offered the contract that thrown at Mistico...so, in that sense, no not as bad.

But "hey he didn't cost a lot" isn't really equal to "good pick-up".

[cm funk]

Konnan would have been a good signing at one point. He proved he could get over to the US audience in WCW and would have fit right in during the attitude era. He would have worked later than that brought in to do stuff with Rey and Eddie.

 

Even if Kharma's first few months had gone according to plan, what was she supposed to do after murdering all the Barbie dolls? You can only run Kharma/Beth so many times.

Work with a lower card male in a special attraction gimmick program (I'd think a Chris Candido/Jamie Noble type who's small and can work and do comedy would be good in that spot)? Build up a Gail Kim type "barbie doll" type opponent, since that got over more than almost anything TNA has done? Bring back Trish Stratus for a Legend v. Monster WM program? I thought of those 3 things in less than 10 seconds. It's not hard to think of angles that would have worked with Kong. Would WWE have done those things and done them well? Probably not, but that doesn't make Kong a bad signing, it means their creative vision is the pits

[Guest Nell Santucci]

Konan is a HOF worthy draw from Mexico too.

Re Konan as a signing due to his drawing power in Mexico, I was never a fan of Konnan, but I remember he was one of the most popular wrestlers of that era amongst a number of casuals I knew in high school, so he'd be far from the worst signing out there. His work was probably good enough for the Attitude Era, given how bad the workrate was on the undercard. After 2000, he wouldn't have fit in, I don't think.

[Ditch]

Kharma is vastly easier to fit into the WWE product than Mistico or Sakuraba. I don't know how there's even a comparison. At the very least there was real upside to her. Besides which, can she even be considered a flop on the merits given how little she was on TV before having to leave?

[Mini Bennett]

What little we got from Kharma was pretty good. "Flop" is definitely the wrong word...

[Johnny Sorrow]

Kharma is vastly easier to fit into the WWE product than Mistico or Sakuraba. I don't know how there's even a comparison. At the very least there was real upside to her. Besides which, can she even be considered a flop on the merits given how little she was on TV before having to leave?

Yeah. She pretty much was coming down to the ring, destroying chicks and looking bad ass, while getting over. Then the personal stuff happened, they quick turned her, set up a feud with the Bellas for her return and that was it.

 

When she came back for the Rumble the place popped huge for her, so she made an impression. That's not a flop, that's just crazy real life shit stopping someone's career.

[Loss]

A major angle for tonight's Raw show will have Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman destroying HHH's office in Stamford, CT. The angle will be announced as having taken place earlier today.

 

Heyman already tweeted a photo of the office being destroyed.

Because everyone can relate to being an executive and having their office destroyed. Just when I think WWE can't get more out of touch ...

[KrisZ]

May be but it is unique though since they never run angles at Titan Towers

[pantherwagner]

I don't think there will be any sympathy for HHH, which is what they are probably looking for, but Brock will look like a beast. On paper it sounds like a very good angle.

[jdw]

One can only guess that WWE Creative, and Trip, are deaf and were unable to hear the lack of heat at Mania for Brock-Trip... i.e. no one wants to see issues between Brock and Trip continue.

 

John

[sek69]

Hunter doesn't seem to be the kind of guy willing to admit something he's a part of isn't working.

[flyonthewall2983]

I don't think there will be any sympathy for HHH, which is what they are probably looking for, but Brock will look like a beast. On paper it sounds like a very good angle.

Because honestly, who here hasn't had their workspace put through the bull-in-a-chinashop deal?

[Robert S]

A major angle for tonight's Raw show will have Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman destroying HHH's office in Stamford, CT. The angle will be announced as having taken place earlier today.

 

Heyman already tweeted a photo of the office being destroyed.

Because everyone can relate to being an executive and having their office destroyed. Just when I think WWE can't get more out of touch ...

 

It's like Austin vs. McMahon with McMahon being the face.

[cm funk]

One can only guess that WWE Creative, and Trip, are deaf and were unable to hear the lack of heat at Mania for Brock-Trip... i.e. no one wants to see issues between Brock and Trip continue.

 

John

Nobody wanted to see HHH beat Brock @ WM. What they're doing now is salvaging the investment in Brock

[jdw]

By putting him with someone the fans don't want to see him with?

 

Unless the point is (yet again) to get have angles with Trip get heat on Brock.

 

Which we've seen haven't worked so well...

 

John

[blueminister]

Kharma got over instantly, I don't see how anyone can argue signing her was a bad idea.

Because she was mentally disturbed with a history of attacking co-workers, celebrated her new employment in pro wrestling by getting pregnant and didn't make them any money.

[jdw]

So when did Vince and Heyman become friends in the storyline?

 

"I was hoping Trip was just going to leave!"

-Cheetah

[Slasher]

Also posted this in Current WWE, but maybe this is more appropriate of a thread, any guesses where they are going with the Triple H angle? Seems like they are admitting defeat kinda telling the fans off about not giving a shit?

[Marty]

Steph's amazingly gotten worse on the stick. Came off really robotic tonight. She was robotic when inducting Trish too, but it came off really bad here. Just lacking in emotion in an angle where emotion on her part is called for. Made her promo on Heyman at Raw1000 look like an Austin promo in his prime. Emotionally, does she care more about showing up Heyman than her husband's health?

[Guest Nell Santucci]

I'm baffled as to why Stephanie and Vince were playing heel. It made no sense to me.

 

Daniel Bryan was amazing tonight. He's by far the best worker on the roster.