Talkin' Stone Cold Violence Against Women Paranoid Blues

[Mad Dog]

I know, it was more of a joke than anything.

[Victator]

To respond to whoever was comparing it to cartoonish violence like Wile E. Coyote.

 

I didn't talk about Hogan messing with Sherri, Lawler punching out a different valet every Monday night, the Dudleys putting Mae Young through a table or Tommy Dreamer piledriving Francine. I mean not agree with those but I tend to agree with you, it's cartoon violence and in no way real. The Austin Stunner was different from all of those over examples I just mentioned. Why? Because a month or two before he laid Keibler out with that Stunner he was in fucking handcuffs for smacking around his real life wife Debra. That's why it goes beyond being a cartoon. It was offensive because they were glorifying him laying her out when he was having very real legal problems because he was abusing his wife. Had he not been beating the shit out of his wife, I wouldn't have given a crap about it.

I had more of problem with Lawler punching the valet. That is close enough to my wrapping a towel around his fist and punching a woman.

 

 

As for Dudleys beating up women... it should've lead to Chyna taking them on (and beating them).

The Dudleys jobbing to Chyna would have made me ill.

 

 

(it might've even been Mae's idea for all we know...

Bubba said May insisted on it, and threatened to punch him if he tried to protect her. I think this was before the one off the ramp. The week before she was mad, Bubba had taken too much of the bump to protect her.

[Sean Liska]

I'm with Vic in that I have a hard time getting upset over cartoony pro wrestling violence. Dreamer piledriving valets was just silly. The one that bugged me was in 1999 WCW when Randy Savage marched angrily backstage and started slapping Torrie Wilson and Gorgeous George. That was too "real" for me.

[MJH]

Chyna was shit. But even if it had been shit, it would've at least given the angle the right spin and turned it into something beyond stupid, crass shock violence.

[Victator]

I'm with Vic in that I have a hard time getting upset over cartoony pro wrestling violence. Dreamer piledriving valets was just silly. The one that bugged me was in 1999 WCW when Randy Savage marched angrily backstage and started slapping Torrie Wilson and Gorgeous George. That was too "real" for me.

That bothered me too.

 

Chyna was shit. But even if it had been shit, it would've at least given the angle the right spin and turned it into something beyond stupid, crass shock violence.

This would be stupid but I kinda want Chyna to return to WWE for one night. She does not know Mark Henry has changed a great deal and tries to clown him again.

[Tim Evans]

Lawler punching out a different valet every Monday night

Not that it makes it more acceptable but I'm pretty sure that only happened once.

 

I know he did it to Miss Texas at least a couple times. Even once on live tv.

[FLIK]

And as for Austin, I was thinking Stacy

 

You're rolling out something after Austin retired?

 

Anyway, Stone Cold was sharing his beer with her. Would any bully share his favorite drink with someone he didn't like? Stacy heeled it up by showing she didn't like the beer, being kind of ungratefully about the generosity of Stone Cold's soft heart. So Stone Cold stunnered her.

 

Always fuckin hated that Austin/Stacy angle for the reasons allready mentioned but also because they came back the next week, had Austin come out again to confront her and this time she chuged the beer happily then took off her shirt and danced. Yay peer pressure and violence, totall bully move.

 

But if you want to see where man on woman violence crossed many lines, then watch Necro versus LuFisto. I have thick skin and that match bothered me. It bothered the announcers and the crowd as well (in most cases).

Are you talking about the Death match tournament final? Been a while since I watched it but I don't recall the anouncers or crowd having that much of a problem with it. LuFisto was always presented as a super tough chick, who enjoyed working the hardcore style and fought guys toe to toe all the time and if I remember correctly she actually beat Necro in that match. Totally diffrent then the Kiebler/Austin stuff.

[Strummer]

I'm with Vic in that I have a hard time getting upset over cartoony pro wrestling violence. Dreamer piledriving valets was just silly. The one that bugged me was in 1999 WCW when Randy Savage marched angrily backstage and started slapping Torrie Wilson and Gorgeous George. That was too "real" for me.

 

I don't get offended by this stuff often I guess but this one sticks out. Torrie laughing through all of it made it even more creepy and "too real" for some reason

[NintendoLogic]

I'm with Vic in that I have a hard time getting upset over cartoony pro wrestling violence. Dreamer piledriving valets was just silly. The one that bugged me was in 1999 WCW when Randy Savage marched angrily backstage and started slapping Torrie Wilson and Gorgeous George. That was too "real" for me.

 

I don't get offended by this stuff often I guess but this one sticks out. Torrie laughing through all of it made it even more creepy and "too real" for some reason

 

I thought that was the reason for it. Torrie was corpsing, so they had to send for the man.

[Matt D]

For some reason, Warrior/Sherri in the cage right after Royal Rumble was more unpleasant to me than most of these examples.

[Bob Morris]

With regards to Austin, I was more annoyed by the stuff because it was just an excuse to get the "Austin stunnered somebody" pop from the crowd. And he was supposed to be the GM, who was told "touch anyone when unprovoked and you are fired" and then Austin decides to taunt the heels to get them provoked.

 

So really, if a heel laid out Austin in response to his taunts, Austin deserved it. Of course, I don't think one heel ever got to lay out Austin (Kane is the only one that comes to mind, and as I remember, it was to turn Kane heel).

[jdw]

You're rolling out something after Austin retired?

 

Anyway, Stone Cold was sharing his beer with her. Would any bully share his favorite drink with someone he didn't like? Stacy heeled it up by showing she didn't like the beer, being kind of ungratefully about the generosity of Stone Cold's soft heart. So Stone Cold stunnered her.

Always fuckin hated that Austin/Stacy angle for the reasons allready mentioned but also because they came back the next week, had Austin come out again to confront her and this time she chuged the beer happily then took off her shirt and danced. Yay peer pressure and violence, totall bully move.

FWIW, the comments about Austin and Stacy were in the context of the over-the-top joking in the "poor sportsmanship of Hulk Hogan" thread. I'm not a fan of SCSA smacking around women.

 

John

[Victator]

With regards to Austin, I was more annoyed by the stuff because it was just an excuse to get the "Austin stunnered somebody" pop from the crowd. And he was supposed to be the GM, who was told "touch anyone when unprovoked and you are fired" and then Austin decides to taunt the heels to get them provoked.

 

So really, if a heel laid out Austin in response to his taunts, Austin deserved it. Of course, I don't think one heel ever got to lay out Austin (Kane is the only one that comes to mind, and as I remember, it was to turn Kane heel).

It all built to Batista beating down Austin In November.

[smkelly]

This one?:

 

Aside from looking like a horrible match, that's exactly how a man vs. woman match should go, isn't it? She steps out to prove herself, gives as good as she gets, and wins in the end. It looks like Necro took far worse of a beating actually.

Here's my write-up:

10-29-06 Necro Butcher vs. LuFisto Stranglehold

LuFisto is showing off her belt, which Necro takes from her and hits her in the face with it. Necro chops LuFisto right in the tit. He tosses her around on the outside until she fires back with kicks and punches while screaming quite loudly. LuFisto throws Necro and he does a flip bump on the concrete floor. They exchange more punches on the floor where Necro nails her with a right cross to the jaw, which the announcer asks, “Is this legal?” Inside the ring they go and LuFisto goes to work on Necro. She places light tubes on his head and does a running knee smash to break the tubes in his face. LuFisto throws a bunch of chairs into the ring and Sabu throws at his head. Necro is legit selling the light tubes in the face moments ago. LuFisto goes all Kawada on Necro’s face. She is kicking the shit out of him, and is now carving his lower back with a broken light tube. She rubs blood from Necro’s back on her stomach. LuFisto breaks a light tube on Necro’s stomach, which is obviously legit painful and then busts it further over his head. Necro comes back with a belly slap and then scoop slams her with a chair on her back. Necro sets up two chairs - back-to-back - and delivers a backbreaker on it. That was truly a painful looking bump and there is absolutely no way it did not hurt her. Necro sets up the chairs so they are facing each other and they are doing the punch in the face spot. Necro hits LuFisto really hard in the face again and again. Necro puts the light tubes in-between the two chairs and wants a powerbomb, but LuFisto gets out and German suplexes Necro through the light tubes for the victory.

 

***

 

In the sense of actual in-match punishment, Necro got his ass kicked, especially taking the lightube shot in the face. But the punch exchanges is where lines were crossed in my opinion. Just not something I enjoy watching.

[MJH]

In the sense of actual in-match punishment, Necro got his ass kicked, especially taking the lightube shot in the face. But the punch exchanges is where lines were crossed in my opinion. Just not something I enjoy watching.

That's fair enough.

 

But the two points worth bearing in mind are:

 

1) She gave as good as she got and won the match: the message of the match is a positive one from a feminine/feminist perspective.

 

2) She's willingly subjecting herself to whatever punishment she took in that match. I'm not saying that automatically "makes it OK", but I'm sure you wouldn't have to look into it too far before you found couples willingly partaking it much rougher/violent BDSM/etc. Not to steal John's wrestling/porn gimmick, but I'm sure there's a lot worse in there, and not even of the mock-rape sort: does a double-anal "offend" anyone? I'm sure that hurts a whole hell of a lot more than that backbreaker/punches.

 

But I digress, she sure seems like a tough girl in the highlights I watched/linked. I know a number of women in wrestling and the majority of them, where/when they wrestle men and I've seen it happen countless times, make the point, repeatedly, of saying "don't go easy on me". From the little I've seen/heard of Necro out of character, he doesn't strike me as a guy who a girl would feel threatened by being in the ring with: he seems entirely opposite to his character. And, indeed, I can't think of too many "stars" (which at that level he is) going out of their way to put over a woman as emphatically as he did and he should be commended for it, if anything. It almost makes me like the guy.

[El-P]

Seems like garbage wankery to me, but I don't have a problem with it since it is clearly portrayed as a "wrestling match" and not mindless man on woman violence. Plus like MJH said, Necro seems to put the girl over pretty big, so in the end I have no problem with this.

 

A babyface bullying a woman to the applauds of the crowd, I do have a problem with.

[ragemaster]

I think the biggest issue is all the eight and ten year old's watching there's hero stun a woman, then growing up with it buried in there subconscious.

 

Maybe a more interesting thread would be is how do we as "smart" wrestling fan's morally continue to watch. With all the death's, injuries and sleaze which goes on in such a business. Why do we go on threads such as this one and cast judgment on wrestling and it's un-tasteful angles, when we are just as bad and morally accountable for continuing to watch.

[MJH]

Because we'd pretty much have to give up listening to good music by that same logic.

[Mad Dog]

I think the biggest issue is all the eight and ten year old's watching there's hero stun a woman, then growing up with it buried in there subconscious.

 

Maybe a more interesting thread would be is how do we as "smart" wrestling fan's morally continue to watch. With all the death's, injuries and sleaze which goes on in such a business. Why do we go on threads such as this one and cast judgment on wrestling and it's un-tasteful angles, when we are just as bad and morally accountable for continuing to watch.

They're no different than actors really. Hell, tons of actors are dead before 35. You don't see the same kind of outcry over that. It's just the nature of the beast so to speak.