rzombie1988 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Even if more Bock footage would pop up, it wouldn't happen. Flair was good for the better part of 30 years with evidence to prove it(Yes, I know some people didn't like most of his WWE run, but I did), and would probably have Bock beat on the face side of things too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Bock is awfully good as a babyface. I'm not saying he smokes Flair or is even better than Flair. But Bock was pretty great as a face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I wouldn't put Bock above Flair, but he does have the advantage in that he never really fell off and was still consistently having good matches up until his retirement. Of course, part of that was a more favorable working environment. Flair could've worked methodical mat-based matches well into his forties, but the wrestling landscape had changed so much that it wasn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 The degree to which Bock worked a methodical, mat based style - PARTICULARLY at that point in his career - is drastically overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 In some ways, it was a loaded question from me, since I think Bock is a wildly smarter worker and from I've up til the end of 84 could work just as hard if not harder at his age at that point. I think he may have been more versatile at this point too. And I haven't even seen him work face yet. Granted, I haven't seen a full range of matches either. EDIT: Also, Dylan. You're killing me. Watch that Blackwell/Bravo match! I think it had a lot of what you were looking for in the Robinson match, but loads better, and will be another piece of your Blackwell puzzle, even if it probably wouldn't be more than middle of the pack for me if it were on the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I have it open on my browser now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I posted this at DVDR in the Too Short section re: The AWA set, and just realized I might get a better set of answers here. It was regarding the Lawler/ Mulligan vs The Sheiks match. "Yeah, I loved this for all the reasons already mentioned. Lawler was just fucking awesome and so was Blackwell. That multiple fist drop spot looked fucking killer. Patera was really good, too. Mulligan stunk, but it didn't hurt the match. Was Mulligan ever good? I've only seen a tiny bit of his Seventies stuff, not enough to form an opinion. But I've seen a lot of his Eighties stuff and he pretty much stinks. I love his interviews and all that, though. Hell, I remember seeing the guy live at a WWF show at the Spectrum in 1986 at the very end of his career. He wrestled Jimmy Jack Funk and won really quick. But he was totally gassed. We were sitting next to the entrance and when he walked by after the match, the poor guy looked like he was about to have a heart attack. Granted, Vince had him dressing up in full "Bunkhouse" clothes at the time so he was wearing jeans and a heavy red long underwear/ union suit type top out there under the hot lights." I just found the card at The History Of WWE site, man was that a packed show. WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - December 13, 1986 (14,132) Televised on the PRISM Network - included Gorilla Monsoon & Dick Graham on commentary: Steve Lombardi pinned Tony Garea (sub. for Outback Jack) at 5:42 after Garea missed a reverse crossbody from the middle turnbuckle Butch Reed pinned Sivi Afi with a clothesline from the middle turnbuckle at 6:01 Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) pinned Mike Rotundo with his feet on the ropes at 9:25 The Honkytonk Man pinned SD Jones at 7:32 with the Shake, Rattle, & Roll Dan Spivey pinned Greg Valentine at 6:28 after Valentine collided with an interfering Brutus Beefcake on the ring apron; Beefcake came ringside mid-way through the bout; after the match, Spivey was double teamed, with Valentine applying the figure-4, until Mike Rotundo made the save; prior to the bout, Johnny V was ordered backstage by the referee after taking a cheap shot on Spivey Blackjack Mulligan pinned Jimmy Jack Funk at the 51-second mark with a flying back elbow Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart defeated Pedro Morales & Tito Santana at 10:18 when Neidhart pinned Morales after Bret hit a double axehandle from the middle turnbuckle as Morales had a Boston Crab applied on Neidhart, with Bret then putting Neidhart on top behind the referee's back for the win The Junkyard Dog fought King Harley Race (w/ Bobby Heenan) to a double count-out at 7:47 after both men began brawling on the floor; after the match, Race attacked JYD from behind as JYD attempted to get at Heenan on the ring apron Hercules (w/ Bobby Heenan) defeated Billy Jack Haynes via disqualification at 7:23 after Haynes accidentally elbowed referee Danny Davis in the face Jose Luis Rivera pinned Iron Mike Sharpe with a backslide at 1:43 Kamala (w/ the Wizard & Kimchee) pinned Cpl. Kirchner at 2:42 following two splashes; after the bout, Kamala hit a splash off the top followed by two regular splashes; moments later, Kirchner was taken backstage on a stretcher WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Paul Orndorff (w/ Bobby Heenan) in a steel cage match at 8:04 by escaping over the top as Orndorff attempted to go through the door; early in the match, Heenan put a lock on the door so that noone could open it but he later removed it so that he could climb inside and try to stop the champion from going over the top; moments later, Hogan threw Heenan into the cage and crotched Orndorff on the top rope before exiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Does anyone else think Hugh Jackman looks frighteningly like Bruiser Brody in this picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 How much did Bock travel compared to Flair? My perception is Flair was much more well-traveled. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 You aren't wrong in the sense that Flair traveled a lot, but Bock traveled an awful lot, probably more than any AWA champion in history. Bock defended the AWA title in Japan, Mississippi, Memphis, Calgary, Montreal, Toronto, Houston, San Antonio and other places I'm forgetting. I'm pretty sure he worked St. Louis, Central States and DEFINITELY worked Hawaii at other points as a "traveling" star (he may have defended the belt in Hawaii actually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 He did indeed. Ditch's site has a match from 1979 where he defends the AWA belt against Jumbo in Hawaii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bock defended the AWA title in Japan, Mississippi, Memphis, Calgary, Montreal, Toronto, Houston, San Antonio and other places I'm forgetting. I'm pretty sure he worked St. Louis, Central States and DEFINITELY worked Hawaii at other points as a "traveling" star (he may have defended the belt in Hawaii actually). He did defend in Hawaii, several times. Two on tape are vs. Jumbo in February 1979 and against Martel in 1978. Bock defended the title in Georgia, too, FWIW. What will hurt Bock in comparing him to Flair and others is the lack of available "in context" interviews to wrap around a period or a set of matches of his one might be viewing. Part of the package is how well you build yourself and your upcoming matches. Where everyone has access to tons of Flair interviews, by comparison there are limited amounts available for Nick pre-1984. As someone who saw tons of them, it hurts his stock there isn't more available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 He did indeed. Ditch's site has a match from 1979 where he defends the AWA belt against Jumbo in Hawaii. This just came available on dvd a short time ago. It had previously only been available for viewing on megaupload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 On Grantland's front page... Kevin Nash's Next Angle: The controversial wrestling star has made a fortune in the ring and is making headway in Hollywood. So why can't he sleep at night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 On Grantland's front page... Kevin Nash's Next Angle: The controversial wrestling star has made a fortune in the ring and is making headway in Hollywood. So why can't he sleep at night? I think that's a nice profile. Nash does think a lot of himself. But here, he comes across more as super-confident than arrogant. And he's a nice compromise between those guys who worship rasslin, like Foley, and guys who hate it, like Warrior. And his idea of how to break into movies is interesting, for sure. It's gotta be tough for a guy his size to do much beyond variations of Bouncer and Tough Guy. But he was quite good in his smallish part in Magic Mike -- and actually the only good thing, beyond the tits, in the abysmal Dead or Alive. The guy's watchable, if he can get hooked up with decent scripts and directors. The description of the IWC stings a bit, but it's accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've never heard Nash take credit for Austin and the Attitude Era before. A while back, Dave said that either Nash has undergone a significant mental decline in the past few years or Twitter has exposed him as just another dumb wrestler. I'm inclined to say it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Yeah and from reading it he enjoys his alcohol and/or pot a bit much so that isn't helping I know this sounds like typical IWC crying but saying that Benoit/Eddy winning the title at WM 20 because people couldn't recognize them at an airport is "death to the business" is kind of laughable. Hell I can think of 2 maybe 3 things Nash was personally involved in about 5-6 years before in WCW that killed the business. To be honest if you took a random person who never watches pro wrestling, they wouldn't recognize any of the current WWE or TNA roster besides maybe Cena and Rock and Lesnar. I doubt that some random guy in the airport bar is screaming "THAT'S TRIPLE H" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've heard him take credit for it before, and how he explains it in the article rings true a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 You could argue that the end of WM XX killed championships, because they turned them into lifetime achievement awards. But that has nothing to do with Benoit and Eddy's size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Without going on the known inanity of Nash's mad comments, it's ironic that he describes Benoit as a "vanilla midget" when he had far more ring presence physically than Bret Hart. When I bring up Benoit to casuals, the first thing casuals note is that he was built like a tank. I never heard that described about Bret Hart. But this all exposes Nash's lack of understanding of the wrestling business anyway, namely that heat draws, not necessarily wrestlers themselves. And Nash was never seen in the class of those few wrestlers who could draw by their mere presence alone, e.g. Austin, Rock, Hogan, Sammartino, and a very select few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I thought that Eddy had become one of the WWE's biggest draws at that point, particularly among Latinos. Also, I wonder how many non-fans would notice Nash's buddy Shawn Michaels at the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I thought that Eddy had become one of the WWE's biggest draws at that point, particularly among Latinos. Also, I wonder how many non-fans would notice Nash's buddy Shawn Michaels at the airport. Eddy was the most over guy on the roster at that point. The crowd was more into him than anyone else. WWE HAD to give him the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 So all during the build for Mania, Dave was admonishing anyone in WWE who was griping about the Rock because he was going to pop a bigger buyrate and in turn make everyone more money. They did pop a record buyrate, per Vince at the investor call it was the biggest money making show ever. The guys just got their payoffs and the mid-low card guys all ended up getting far less than expected. So the idea that Rock would lead to everyone making more money seemed to not be the case, which is a pretty ironic lesson in trickle down economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If they have a problem, they should man up and unionize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If they have a problem, they should man up and unionize. They'd have better luck if there were any viable options. Not to mention the top guys (the wrestling equivalent of the "1%"?) will never risk their golden goose to help the lower tier guys. Wrestling has been able to bank on the inherent selfishness of human beings to keep their business model going for over a century now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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