Johnny Sorrow Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 This Steve Regal is who worked *earlier* in the AWA. AWA --> JCP --> WWF He was the AWA Light Heavyweight (from Buck) and Tag Champ (that goofy win over the Warriors with Garvin). Had a rivalry with Denny Brown for the NWA Jr. Title, had a cup of coffee with it then left to the WWF. The Horsemen were pertty solidly together by the point Regal came in. I do think that Ole was out for a big chunk of the first half of 1986, so you don't see the "group" together as much in that period because he's not around. John Yeah, that'd be around the time the good guys "broke Ole's leg/ ankle" as revenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 This Steve Regal is who worked *earlier* in the AWA. AWA --> JCP --> WWF He was the AWA Light Heavyweight (from Buck) and Tag Champ (that goofy win over the Warriors with Garvin). Had a rivalry with Denny Brown for the NWA Jr. Title, had a cup of coffee with it then left to the WWF. The Horsemen were pertty solidly together by the point Regal came in. I do think that Ole was out for a big chunk of the first half of 1986, so you don't see the "group" together as much in that period because he's not around. John I meant "later" relative to his work in PNW (assuming it was the same guy). I never knew he was in the WWF . Then again, that particular time period is a bit of a blank spot for me. I just found it a bit strange as, before they became an official group, you would see the future horsemen on occasion teaming with the likes of Bob Roop or Buddy Landell. Once they formed, it was pretty much all Horsemen, all the time. Then Bam, out of nowhere, one time only, Steve Regal. Watching this for the second time, I notice Ole was pretty much on the shelf right at the start of the group. I think the first time on the set I hear the words "Four Horsemen" are when they are discussing Ole being taken out of action, or at the very least right before it. Sombody else can put together the actual numbers, but it seems like the longest lasting version of the Horsemen was actually the Three Horsemen of Flair, Arn and Tully (with three periods, the time after Dusty broke Ole's leg, the time when Ole was MIA and Lex was trying to get in, and the post-Lex pre-Barry period), or at least fairly close to the duration of the Lex Horsemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Coming to the end of this on my second viewing. Where the heck has Mike Jackson been all my life? If there were ever an enhancement guy that I'd actively wish for a compilation, it would be Mike Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Mike JAckson was great. If only we had a ton of house show matches with NWA footage I could see Jackson working really great house show matches with guys like Hector Guerrero, Sam Houston, Manny Fernandez or even Arn and Bobby Eaton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 - The World Wide music is fucking awesome, made better from watching Tully slingshot suplex Pat Tanaka in slow motion. Interesting to see the latter as a young jobber. - If we did "top undercard guys ever" list, I reckon Sam Houston would have to finish top 10. He was just great in this plucky JTTS role. Obviously, working against the Horsemen every week has got to help, but still. - Ha ha, Dusty's just done a run in and he's got that concept that seems only to exist in 80s wrestling "the loaded boot". Never quite understood what "loaded" is meant to mean or how it makes the boot more painful. - "The past few weeks I haven't been here and the ratings have gone down. Well, Ted, don't worry". lol, doesn't matter how many Flair promos you watch, he still finds ways to put a smile on your face. And again, "They've [the Road Warriors] have come down from that backwater, the AWA, back to the major leagues, back to the big time ... The AWA and Dusty Rhodes are NOT what is happening in wrestling today. WHOO" -Can already see in this 6-man from 85 that Flair and Ronnie Garvin had great chemistry. - Awesome, all four of the horsemen, still pre-horsemen, cutting a promo. Excellent to see the stable forming before your eyes. Road Warriors facepaint in 85 looks ridiculous. -Koko Ware looks pretty good here. Struck by how MASSIVE his thighs and ass are. Very thick built lower body. Stopping here and going to watch the full Starrcade 85 card. Feels right to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 - - Ha ha, Dusty's just done a run in and he's got that concept that seems only to exist in 80s wrestling "the loaded boot". Never quite understood what "loaded" is meant to mean or how it makes the boot more painful. Road Warriors facepaint in 85 looks ridiculous. 1. Dusty didn't have a "loaded" boot. He had a steel reinforced boot to protect his ankle that Flair, Ole, and Arn destroyed. And "loaded" means that a guy has something hidden in his boot that makes it heavier and therefore more hurty. 2. The Warriors facepaint looked awesome. What are you, some kind of pinko commie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The post below has been made over the period of about 2 months. Was going to watch Wrestlemania 28, but this somehow seemed more pressing. As I said I would do, I've stopped right before Starrcade '85 to watch the whole show in full. I'll do this for every PPV, but probably not for Clashes. - The Starrcade music at the start and played throughout the show is fucking incredible. - Massive reaction for Sam Houston and little heat for Crusher Kruschev, so suprising who goes over. Barry Darsow just speaks with his normal American voice and is the least convincing commie Russian ever, awful, awful promo. Also, I think Johnny Weaver is an awkward on-camera presence -- he's no Mean Gene. - Abdullah vs. Manny Fernandez Mexican Death match was nowhere near as brutal as I'd hoped. Bloody, but not brutal. Oh well. - Christ they gave Kruschev MORE mic time? Weaver is even more awkward in this segment. - Now, Black Bart vs. Ron Bass. Three things I don’t like about the booking here: 1. If Bass wins he gets 5 minutes with JJ Dillon, so obviously Bass wins. I don’t like that when the heel has to put a stake but the face doesn’t. It should have been “If Bass wins he gets his 5 minutes with JJ, if Bart wins Bass has to leave town” or something like that. Otherwise it’s too obvious the face is winning. 2. During said five minute match with JJ, the commentary is severely lacking a Ventura figure to say “oh, beating up a manager? Big deal” sort of thing. I really miss having a heel colour guy in general when watching 80s NWA. 3. What’s the point in having JJ go over? You make Bart look weak because he got beat by Bass who his manager then beat, you make Bass look weak because he got beaten by a fucking manager. Don’t get the booking here at all. - What’s this now? An arm wrestling match? Gimmick mad this card. Weird to see Billy Graham in 1985 NWA. Guessing this run never worked out. This is probably better than any of the arm wrestling matches from the Jesse Ventura invitational tournament in 92. Crowd is wild for it. - Landell vs. Terry Taylor now. Topical considering the recent thread. Landell really looks like Flair from the side and back. This one kind of passed me by like every other Taylor match I’ve ever seen. Good night for JJ Dillon so far! - Arn and Ole vs. Wahoo McDaniel and Billy Jack Haynes. Wow Haynes is RIPPED. One of the better matches of the night thus far. All Arn for the first 6 or 7 minutes or so. He bumps like a champ for Haynes. Wahoo plays face in peril here. He was 47 at this point, and looks more like 57. Haynes is pretty over and the crowd pop big for the hot tag … but then he tagged Wahoo back in – don’t understand why. Couple of double teams and it’s all over. Now why did Haynes tag the guy who’d been getting battered for the past 10 minutes BACK in? - Johnny Weaver’s with Buddy Landell and JJ Dillon now. “I think wrestling history will show that The Gathering at Starrcade 85 will be the greatest ever single event in wrestling history”, says JJ. He says the win over Bass crowns the greatest night in his illustrious career to date. Wow, Landell is a decent promo. - It’s time now. Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA. YES, pumped. Crimson flowing early here after they start out 100 miles an hour. “SAY IT!! SAY ITTTT” “NOOOOOOOO” Awesome. Oh my god. Tully’s gone mental here, kicking the ref, breaking down a wooden chair and making a giant splinter out of it! Amazing scenes. Jesus Christ! Oh fucking hell! Brutal. For the ages. - Atlanta street fight now. Midnight Express vs. Jimmy Valiant and “Miss Atlanta Lively”. The Midnights are in full tuxedos. Dennis Condrey looks quite dapper all in white, but Bobby Eaton couldn’t look more ridiculous. Jim Cornette seems to be running away from “Big Mamma”, a skinny woman. Ha ha. Things quickly degenerate and the Midnights are trying to undress Miss Atlanta. This is so messy, but it’s entertaining messy. - Ivan and Nikita Koloff vs. RnR – JCP getting their money’s worth out of that cage tonight. Interesting first ten minutes as Ivan plays heel in peril for a while, with Morton and Gibson using speed and quick tags to their advantage, and Ivan even gets some colour. Things turn when Nikita gets in and the Russians gain control. Surprisingly, it’s Gibson who plays face in peril. Stretch sequence is lonnnggg. Flash finish a bit too quick for my liking. Interesting story in that match – Ivan consistently shown to be the weakest link and ultimately it cost The Russians. Hoping for a Rock and Rollers vs. Minnesota Wrecking Crew feud now. - Time for Flair vs. Dusty. No one feels more like “the man” than Flair in the 80s. Rhodes has got his game face on. Flair’s not in the mood for strutting. Great story here as Dusty is still recovering from the ankle injury that Ole and Arn gave him a few weeks back. Flair obviously works on that leg and goes for the figurefour whenever he can. So much blood on this show! There’s one very very annoying fan in the crowd who keeps doing this loud high-pitched “oohhhh”, sounds demented. Distracting. Flair’s finally got the figurefour on and Dusty looks like he’s going to legit pass out through pain. Tommy Young is out now … if the Horsemen were actually together at this point, I’d expect a run in right around now. Oh! There’s Arn!!! There’s Ole! Kick out! Flash cradle pin. Of course, Dusty is the new champ. Funny that the face locker room can’t actually lift him up. Well Tully vs. Magnum was clearly the match of the night. But from the Andersons match onwards this is quite the card. Haynes surprised me with just how over he was, and the psychology in that match with Arn and Ole working over Wahoo’s chopping arm was great. Midnights vs. Boogiewoogie Man and Garvin in a dress was the best type of horseshit, and you need some horseshit on a card as intense as this one. Koloffs vs. Rock n Roll Express is also a very solid match and an interesting departure from the standard R ‘n’ R formula. Flair vs. Dusty is not a classic by any means, and the emotion at the end seemed kind of forced – I didn’t get the impression the other wrestlers were happy for Dusty. Never has there been so much blood on one card. MVP of the night? The Starrcade theme. What awesome track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Time for Flair vs. Dusty. No one feels more like “the man” than Flair in the 80s. Rhodes has got his game face on. Flair’s not in the mood for strutting. Great story here as Dusty is still recovering from the ankle injury that Ole and Arn gave him a few weeks back. Flair obviously works on that leg and goes for the figurefour whenever he can. So much blood on this show! There’s one very very annoying fan in the crowd who keeps doing this loud high-pitched “oohhhh”, sounds demented. Distracting. Flair’s finally got the figurefour on and Dusty looks like he’s going to legit pass out through pain. Tommy Young is out now … if the Horsemen were actually together at this point, I’d expect a run in right around now. Oh! There’s Arn!!! There’s Ole! Kick out! Flash cradle pin. Of course, Dusty is the new champ. Funny that the face locker room can’t actually lift him up. I`ve never been able to get into the match for that very reason. It`s just constant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 FWIW Krushchev was supposed to be a "Russian sympathizer," not a Russian proper. When he started with the gimmick in Mid-South he was first called Krusher Darsow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Glad to see this picked up. Would love to see folks who watch it chip in. There a ton of great stuff in this Era. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 The Billy Graham run between Florida and JCP, was actually pretty cool. He jumped to Vince not to soon after. Probably because he had gotten totally juiced up again, started wearing tye dye again, and started cutting awesome promos again. But as a face. It was pretty great to see the Graham I had only read about and not karate fighter Graham. And I'd guess Vince saw the guy who he had liked so much before he owned the WWF and brought him back. I know Graham pissed off Dusty by stiffing a cab driver who Dusty ended up paying. As far as the Bass/ Bart/ JJ stuff, it's like this. Bass didn't have to put anything up because the match was made by "the matchmakers", who were generally favorable to the good guys, especially a former heel who got screwed by his manager and therefore turned face. So he wins the match to get his hands on JJ and JJ gets a beating. BUT, the face is foiled by underhanded means and a battered JJ gets carried away...in order to advance the feud. And Bass had a series with Buddy Landell after this, who was managed by JJ still. It all got dropped after they moved JJ to Tully and Landell got canned, I'd imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Karate Fighter Graham always made me sad since he looked like the wrestling version of a superstar in sports who was at or near the top, but has obviously stayed a few years too long and is embarrassing his legacy. Which made it all the more amazing he would be back in the WWF not too too much later cutting awesome promos in the desert again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Karate fighter Graham and old man Bob Geigel look like long lost brothers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 - YES, Starrcade music video!!! They should have used this music for Warrior when he turned up in 98. - Tony Schiavone was 28 in 1985, so I'm wondering if that outrageous tache was a bid to make him look more like 35. Anyway, he's interviewing referee Tommy Young, unusual to see a ref give an explaination. Now if this was WWF, this would have been a grave, solemn announcement from Jack Tunney with Vince or Gorilla going nuts. Here, the goody-two-shoes Schiavone is all like "oh fair enough, it was the right call Mr. Young". These sorts of things make me happy. Gotta love Flair's promo too "Tommy Young showed alotta class". Ha ha - Ole: "Fantasy is when you're Dusty Rhodes thinkin' you've won the world title, reality is a broken leg". - Billy Jack Haynes was so fucking jacked in 85. If you're Magnum TA and you're going up against Tully and the Wrecking Crew, do you really pick Sam Houston as your second partner? Anyway, Magnum looks a million bucks in the shine segment. Ole is such a rough, tough son of a bitch beating on Houston, awesome. I'm not buying the idea that Ole never sold for anyone either. I've just seen him take 5 right hands from Houston here and he even did the "confused in the wrong corner" spot. The idea Ole never sold is BS I'm saying. Haynes is legit built like someone out of a computer game - like Hagger from Final Fight or Zangief as seen in Street Fighter Alpha 3, he was just massive. Three Gorilla press slams is overkill for me (Ole sold one of those too), think Haynes generally hurts this match. I like the general story though: two meatheads and more-stupid-than-brave Houston against three smart heels. Tully was the MVP here though, everything he did very well both selling and offence. FiP segment on Magnum was pretty great, but he makes the mistake of making the hot tag to Houston rather than powerhouse Haynes, obviously from that moment the faces are losing this one. Regardless, really good 6-man tag for a random TV match. - Dusty surprisingly isn't that pissed off and takes Tommy Young's decision quite well. Can you imagine how much Hogan would have bitched and moaned about this? "I'll live with it" says the Dream. Wow. He knows he can pin Flair and says he'll just do it again. - Denny Brown, the "world'sjunior heavyweight champion" and some jobber (Ron Rossi) take on the MWC. Dusty and Magnum come out for commentary and Arn is pissed about that. Dusty immediately buries Rossi as an inadequate partner for Brown. Quite funny, Magnum and Dusty spend the entire match talking about how shit Rossi is. lol. Awesome gourbuster from Arn to finish. Rossi was the jobber's jobber wasn't he -- a guy who had zero offence, "the most jobber". - Now Rocky King, he was more at SD Jones or even Koko B. Ware level jobber. Rocky King would definitely kick Ron Rossi's ass if they had a match. Nice stalling vertical suplex from Flair, King seems to submit even before he's in the figure four. - Flair: "I've been known as a big spender". Ron Garvin is here and he challenges Ric to a match. Pumped, should be good. - Another jobber match now as Arn takes on Josh Stroud. David Crockett seems somewhat taken with Stroud's arms as he says "look at the arms on this guy" at least 8 times during this match. Stroud probably a contender for worst worker ever. - Dusty's wardrobe has taken a noticable nosedive here. Contender for worst dressed man of December 1985. Awful sweaters, awful baseball caps, awful leather jacket. There were probably legit truckers from Texas who dressed better than this man. - Magnum trades Haynes and Houston for Dusty and Manny Fernandez while the MWC trade Tully for Flair in another 6 man. David Crockett is such a ridiculous mark for this product that it's actually quite infectious. Awesome fast-paced start here with Arn and Manny. "This is great", says David, "you can't beat it anywhere". Extended babyface shine segment and David is losing his shit. Don't know whether I love him or hate him. Richmond, VA crowd is very hot for this - looks full too, maybe 10,000? Just for my own understanding here: was it that World Championship Wrestling came from the WTBS Studios in Atlanta and Worldwide and MACW / Pro came from tapings at houseshows? Face shine section is very long here, at least 7 minutes before the heels can turn it around. Arn's got a chair, lol "HE WAFFLED HIM! HE WAFFLED HIM!" ha ha ha - Flair is big on this "don't put that camera on these women, keep it on me" line around this time, he's used it in each of his past 4 intereviews. Weird thing is that the camera never moves. He seems convinced that the cameras are switching all the time, but they stay on him. - Magnum vs. Ole is a really good, beefy stiff match. A huge amount of strikes. I like this alot. Ole's slightly delayed elbow drop is great. Much, much better match than I'd have ever expected. - Still saying Jim Crockett Jr. has the least charisma of any person to appear on wrestling TV ever, including like shitty one-shot celebrities. Just a charisma vacuum. - Flair vs Garvin now and the Man with the Hands of Stone is rocking a fantastically mid-80s mullet, arguably the worst hair on the set so far. Garvin is awesomely stiff here. Great heated stuff, Garvin and Flair have great chemistry. Schmoz finish to be expected. Garvin was on fucking fire here, changing my mind about him. - JJ Dillion is making gestures towards managing Tully now, dun dun dun ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 - Very interesting watching the Baby Doll - Tully breakup and JJ Dillon's role in it. The fact that Dillon has basically tricked Blanchard into being his charge means that their entire relationship is built on a lie. - Still think Dusty's booking is very creepy here. Getting rid of Sam Houston, snaking in on Baby Doll, writing himself as her knight in shining armour. Sickening. - Flair on Baby Doll: "I've seen better on the backside on the worst days of my life ... remember that one night when you had the chance to ride space mountain? ... Please Ric, please let me on". Ha ha ha, what a consummate asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Tully could have absolutely been in on it from the get go, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Tully could have absolutely been in on it from the get go, you know. Why would he have been then? That's quite a complex ruse. Going to the bother of pretending to be upset with someone. Why? To dump the girl he's supposed to love? Don't understand it if Tully's in on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Tully's entire character was about the illusion of class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 How does that explain developing a plan that convoluted just to dump his girlfriend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 He'd lost the US belt. He couldn't afford her tastes anymore, but he couldn't let himself be seen as crass and no longer a high roller and dump her for that reason. Buying JJ Suits cost a hell of a lot less than bankrolling Baby Doll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 So let me get this right. You're saying: 1. Tully was all about his image as a high roller and Baby Doll was part of that image. 2. Losing his title meant he no longer has the same income so he needed to find a way of getting rid of Baby Doll to save face. 3. So he enlisted the aid of JJ Dillon and concocted a story about her being some sort of cheat, and even went to the trouble of being emotional about it on national TV giving him a pretext to dump her in a way that doesn't compromise his image. Well, it's plausible and it holds up. But is this really what the booking was? Seems very complex for JCP in 86. Isn't it more: 1. Tully loved Baby Doll, or at least the IDEA of Baby Doll being his. 2. JJ Dillon wanted Tully as his own charged and needed to sideline Baby Doll. 3. So Dillon fed Tully the line that she wasn't faithful and Tully, being a proud man and being all about the image, couldn't handle this tainting the perfect picture, so had to get rid of her. That version of events paints Dillon as Iago and Tully as Othello. Yours paints Tully as some sort of machiavellian genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 He's not a machiavellian genius since 1) it sent Baby Doll into Dusty's arms where she could tell him all of Tully's tricks (not that it helped him as Tully won the National belt soon after) and 2) it was a hell of a lot of effort for basically worthless gain. He's more like a super villain with brilliant plans that are completely misguided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Tully lost dead weight and gained the TV title. Tully never cared about Baby Doll, once she outlived her usefulness he was done with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I dispute this. He did care about her! Or at least he cared about the idea of her being his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 That angle is more interesting when you hear Tully talk about his views on valets and managers. He thought they would steal his heat so he always made sure they never directly effected the outcome of a match. Like he wanted JJ to hand him the foreign object, so he could hit the face. Otherwise it is JJ getting the heat and not him. He said with Baby Doll, it was a running issue, because she wanted to be the star. I would not be surprised if that played a part behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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