Vince McMahon's Amusement

[JerryvonKramer]

Headbanger Mosh was on the Art of Wrestling this week and touched on this a bit. He talked about how he thought Vince liked to make guys his own and didn't like guys coming in with a gimmick he didn't have his hands on. Thought it was funny considering this thread had popped up just recently.

Other than Flair, there are very few examples from the 85-93 period where he didn't 100% repackage someone and act like they had no history outside of the WWF.

 

Even Dory Funk Jr became "Hoss Funk" and was given a cowboy gimmick.

 

This was one of the big differences between Vince's self-contained cartoon universe and the much more realistic NWA world in which success elsewhere was seen as adding to a guy's legit credentials.

 

Always thought this was one of the more interesting aspects of Vince's whole marketing strategy: he knew his audience was mainly kids who didn't know any wrestling outside of WWF, so he went out of his way to encourage their ignorance and leverage that to his own advantage.

[Al]

I feel like Vince left a ton of the NWA guys alone. Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Warlord, the Barbarian, Ron Garvin, Rick Rude, Sam Houston all kept their names and roughly their same gimmicks.

[flyonthewall2983]

He eventually did give Barbarian and Warlord new outfits, but you're right.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Dory was on WO radio a few years ago and I called in to ask him about the "Hoss" thing. He said that Vince didn't come up with it, that "Hoss" was his actual nickname amongst him and his family, and Vince liked it. And the Funks have always had cowboy gimmicks. Maybe not as over the top as it was in the WWF, but they were Texas cowboys at heart.

 

Oh and the only thing Vince changed about Dusty was the polka dots.

[PeteF3]

The WWF non-change that confuses me the most was Mr. Hughes. Talk about a guy who could have actually used a gimmick makeover but didn't get one. Not only was he a true "WCW creation," not only was his attire not that appropriate considering there was no York Foundation to provide security for, but I don't think any wrestling roster in history has had a need for TWO "wrestle in suspenders and a necktie" guys at once.

[Matt D]

I think even with guys like Arn and Tully, they WERE rebranded. They were the Brainbusters. Heenan was stressed in their success. Tully in WWF wasn't Tully in NWA. It's slight and subtle, but you can tell that thre's a difference in how Vince even talks about them as an announcer.

 

Now The Nasty Boys are just the Nasty Boys.

[sek69]

The Nasty Boys were kind of amazing in that they were exactly the kind of team you'd expect to get repackaged anywhere they go, but yet they stayed pretty much the same in the AWA, WWF, and WCW. They only time anything really was changed was when they were in the WWF and added more neon-colored paint streaks to their gear. Even that didn't seem like much because it was during that period in the 90s where it seemed everything had neon colors added to it.

 

Also I always wondered why the WWF had to refer to the Road Warriors as the Legion of Doom. They just replaced one non WWF created name for another.

[flyonthewall2983]

Was it during his first run with WWF that Steamboat got the "Dragon" moniker? If so, that's one re-branding that worked because it added on to his babyface appeal, and seemed less cartoon (except his brief run in '91).

[khawk20]

Also I always wondered why the WWF had to refer to the Road Warriors as the Legion of Doom. They just replaced one non WWF created name for another.

Maybe Hawk and Animal refused to use "The Road Warriors" so they could retain rights to the name later on if things didn't work out in the WWF for them and they moved on.

[Al]

I think Hawk and Animal threw Vince a curveball, as he was unaware that Legion of Doom was an alternate name/old stable for the Road Warriors.

 

There are a couple re-brandings that worked beautifully. Demoltion Smash was better than Krusher Khruschev. The Big Boss Man was the best thing to happen to Ray Traylor's career.

 

But of course there's also counter examples like the Red Rooster. Can't win them all.

[Loss]

The Road Warriors were called the Legion of Doom because Vince was afraid having the Ultimate Warrior and the Road Warriors on the same roster would cause confusion. There are other examples of this - specifically with the names "Lance" and "Shane".

[flyonthewall2983]

Also why they shifted from "Modern Day Warrior" to "Texas Tornado" for Kerry Von Erich.

[El-P]

Remember Steve Armstrong "repackaged" as Lance Cassidy ?

[Matt D]

It's also funny how they dropped guys names. It was jarring in 92-93 when someone would, upset, randomly call Perfect "Hennig." and after a couple of months, Kerry Von Erich was no longer a person but just "The Texas Tornado!"

[El-P]

It's also funny how they dropped guys names. It was jarring in 92-93 when someone would, upset, randomly call Perfect "Hennig." and after a couple of months, Kerry Von Erich was no longer a person but just "The Texas Tornado!"

Davey Boy Smith eventually became The British Bulldog when he came back as a single. Jacques Rougeau became just The Mountie (then Jacques, because tag team members never have a last name even though everybody knows who they are).

And don't forget the awful Freddie Joe Floyd which was a rib on Brisco, quite humiliating after years of being well known as Tracey Smothers.

The Stalker is another historically terrible repackaging, but I think it went the other way around, as they first didn't say his name at all then introduced him as The Stalker Barry Windham since it was obvious, then of course Barry got all Blackjacked up. Barry really never fit in WWF after the US Express deal, he went from bad gimmick to bad gimmicks there. Glad he went back to WCW in 99.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think even with guys like Arn and Tully, they WERE rebranded. They were the Brainbusters. Heenan was stressed in their success. Tully in WWF wasn't Tully in NWA. It's slight and subtle, but you can tell that thre's a difference in how Vince even talks about them as an announcer.

Yes absolutely. As I said before, even with Flair, although they gave a nod to him holding the other title and he'd mention other title reigns in promos, he was still a WWF-packaged Flair.

 

WWF Flair had no suit, for example. He always wore the robe. I made a fairly detailed posted about this ages ago but searching for Flair on this board is like searching for the word "the".

[Matt D]

It's also funny how they dropped guys names. It was jarring in 92-93 when someone would, upset, randomly call Perfect "Hennig." and after a couple of months, Kerry Von Erich was no longer a person but just "The Texas Tornado!"

Davey Boy Smith eventually became The British Bulldog when he came back as a single. Jacques Rougeau became just The Mountie (then Jacques, because tag team members never have a last name even though everybody knows who they are).

And don't forget the awful Freddie Joe Floyd which was a rib on Brisco, quite humiliating after years of being well known as Tracey Smothers.

The Stalker is another historically terrible repackaging, but I think it went the other way around, as they first didn't say his name at all then introduced him as The Stalker Barry Windham since it was obvious, then of course Barry got all Blackjacked up. Barry really never fit in WWF after the US Express deal, he went from bad gimmick to bad gimmicks there. Glad he went back to WCW in 99.

 

I think there's an alternate reality where Patterson talked Vince into using Widowmaker Barry Windham in the Zeus role in 1989 in a King's Court gimmick with Savage, Sherri, and heel Rockers as Sherri's knights. I wish I lived there.

[Al]

The worst of the name changes was El Matador.

[Matt D]

Even then, they never REALLY indicated it wasn't Tito. It was just Tito with a new skill set (and a new finisher which actually was a HUGE boon to his typical match structure). He was still El Matador Tito Santana. Same with the Bulldog. He was still The British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith more often than not.

[JerryvonKramer]

The worst of the name changes was El Matador.

My money's on Col. Mustafa actually.

 

Side question: did Raymond ever interview Jacques?

[El-P]

It's also funny how they dropped guys names. It was jarring in 92-93 when someone would, upset, randomly call Perfect "Hennig." and after a couple of months, Kerry Von Erich was no longer a person but just "The Texas Tornado!"

Davey Boy Smith eventually became The British Bulldog when he came back as a single. Jacques Rougeau became just The Mountie (then Jacques, because tag team members never have a last name even though everybody knows who they are).

And don't forget the awful Freddie Joe Floyd which was a rib on Brisco, quite humiliating after years of being well known as Tracey Smothers.

The Stalker is another historically terrible repackaging, but I think it went the other way around, as they first didn't say his name at all then introduced him as The Stalker Barry Windham since it was obvious, then of course Barry got all Blackjacked up. Barry really never fit in WWF after the US Express deal, he went from bad gimmick to bad gimmicks there. Glad he went back to WCW in 99.

 

I think there's an alternate reality where Patterson talked Vince into using Widowmaker Barry Windham in the Zeus role in 1989 in a King's Court gimmick with Savage, Sherri, and heel Rockers as Sherri's knights. I wish I lived there.

 

Man, I want to live there too !

[El-P]

Even then, they never REALLY indicated it wasn't Tito. It was just Tito with a new skill set (and a new finisher which actually was a HUGE boon to his typical match structure). He was still El Matador Tito Santana. Same with the Bulldog. He was still The British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith more often than not.

I actually enjoyed El Matador's gimmick. It made Tito seemed fresh at the time, I wish he would have been pushed again as he was still one of their best worker.

[El-P]

Side question: did Raymond ever interview Jacques?

I think I can remember some interview of the Quebecers on the platform by Raymond.

[Loss]

Barry obviously could have done way more in 1989 WWF, but I really wish he would have stayed put in the NWA, as there was still more potential for him there to feud with a turned Flair. Luger basically got the spot opened up by Barry when he left, so I'm not sure what would have happened to Lex had he stayed. Also, would Funk have still come in and even so, would he have had the top heel spot? Lots of interesting things to ponder.

 

But I don't want to make this a WCW topic, so I'll switch back to the WWF. Savage was SOOOO hot in '89 that making anyone else the top heel would not have been a good idea. It's hard to figure out a good spot for Barry when Savage was on such a roll. Hogan had just come off of two huge drawing feuds -- Boss Man and Savage -- and that was a pretty tough act to follow. Just ask Curt Hennig.

[PeteF3]

Side question: did Raymond ever interview Jacques?

I think I can remember some interview of the Quebecers on the platform by Raymond.

 

There was definitely one before their match with the Harts. Jacques pointed out, "Brothers don't always get along!" while shooting a knowing look at Ray.