Clash of the Champions DVD

[Al]

Been working my way though this, wanted to share some random thoughts.

 

Sting vs Flair (Clash I)

Flair vs Funk

 

These matches have been written about ad nauseum. 4* or 5*, they hold up quite well. And Flair/Funk has this wonderful intensity about it even without the blood. Watching it again I felt like Flair was working a standard Flair match, while Funk was putting together a master performance. Both wrestling and verbally.

 

Mil Mascaras vs Cactus Jack

 

I feel like Alberto Del Rio misses a golden opportunity not channeling his uncle more. Mil Mascaras has this vibe about him similar to Alex Rodriguez. He's ridiculous concerned about his self image to the point where every aspect about him is fabricated. He comes off as a face, but he's really a heel. The sucking in the stomach bit is even more obvious than Matt Hardy was. As far as Foley, 22 subsequent years have lessened the impact of that bump to the point of wondering what the heck Ross and Cornette were so worked up about. They were trying to protect Foley, but I don't think it was working.

 

Flair vs Luger

 

Sting needed opponents as NWA Champion and I wonder why they didn't pair Hansen up against Sting instead of Luger. (Hansen interferes in this match to set up Havoc '90.) Hansen seems similar to Lesnar in terms of their situations. Impact wrestlers who didn't wrestle full time in the U.S., but have instant credibility when they appear due to their looks. Hansen is or was obviously a better wrestler.

 

One thing wrestling really misses in the national expansion is the three month heel. The guy you could bring into your promotion to work a program against your top face. You get a money feud, and the heel even when he loses isn't hurt because he isn't over-exposed. Abdullah the Butcher, Ernie Ladd, even a guy like Ivan Koloff in the '70s.

 

15 Man Battle Royal

 

Oh man, if you loved the Gimmick Battle Royal! It took me half the match to associate Kevin Nash with Oz. It's also as good an El Gigante match as you'll see.

 

Flair/Anderson vs Hollywood Blonds

Sting/Flair vs Rude/Vader

 

These matches are the highlight of the set for me thus far. Not great matches, but good matches. Fun to watch and pairing that haven't been overexposed.

 

Still have disc 3 to watch but I really like this set. Everything on discs 1/2 except for Mascaras/Foley is at least good.

[JerryvonKramer]

Mil Mascaras is a bottom 5 wrestler for me, just hate the guy, mainly for stinking up any match he was involved with on the All Japan set (apart from the one where he bleeds under the mask).

[Tim Cooke]

Have you watched the two Mascaras vs. Destroyer matches from 1973/1974?

[flyonthewall2983]

Is Jesse's commentary removed from the matches he's announcing?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, watching it on Netflix now. It sadly is

[artDDP]

Is Jesse's commentary removed from the matches he's announcing?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, watching it on Netflix now. It sadly is

This is one thing I don't understand. It's as if WWE is willing to pay whatever royalties Jesse wants for a set where his commentary is absolutely essential, like the "Saturday Night's Main Event" set. But then, his commentary is included on the Starrcade set when he's only there for a small handful of matches. And then on this set, and dozens more, he's edited out?

 

I also never understood why Jesse is the only announcer who sued for royalties?

[Al]

Mil Mascaras from the limited matches I've seen of his prime is an average/slightly above average worker. It's to his credit that he became the most over Mexican wrestler in wrestling history. (I kind of separate Mexican-Americans like Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero from that group.) I think Mascaras was hurt trying to hard to maintain his image well into his late 40s and beyond. He was hardly someone like Big Daddy in his workrate.

[GSR]

Have you watched the two Mascaras vs. Destroyer matches from 1973/1974?

From his posts here and on DVDVR, I'd be amazed if the answer was anything other than no.

[JerryvonKramer]

Ha ha, you're not wrong.

[Chess Knight]

I haven't seen a ton of Mascaras, but whatever I've seen from the 70s is typically good. The Destroyer matches are extroadinary and I don't remember thnking they were remotely Destroyer carry jobs. Kind of seems like Mascaras became the biggest grouch in the history of wrestling come 1982 or something and just shrugs everything off he deems unnecessary. Which includes his opponents' offense.

[JerryvonKramer]

He's one of those guys that seemingly everyone in the industry hates. Like whenever he's brought up in shoots, they don't have good things to say about him.

 

I did a bit of reading around these Destroyer matches the other night when you mentioned them so might watch them over the weekend.

 

I get the general impression though that Mascaras was an average wrestler who just happened to become a big star and the Destroyer matches are his all-time best. Still I'll go into them with an open mind. If I was to watch one, which one?

 

On another note, I've got the US Netflix and this Clash set popped up on it the other day. I was going to watch it but the dubbing out of Ventura has pissed me off a bit. There's a ton of WWE sets on Netflix, been meaning to watch at least the documentaries - AWA, Heenan and so on - but in a weird way I'm worried about "spoilers". Would watching the WWE AWA set spoil the DVDR set?

[Matt D]

Is Jesse's commentary removed from the matches he's announcing?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, watching it on Netflix now. It sadly is

This is one thing I don't understand. It's as if WWE is willing to pay whatever royalties Jesse wants for a set where his commentary is absolutely essential, like the "Saturday Night's Main Event" set. But then, his commentary is included on the Starrcade set when he's only there for a small handful of matches. And then on this set, and dozens more, he's edited out?

 

I also never understood why Jesse is the only announcer who sued for royalties?

 

He had another career to fall back on.

[JerryvonKramer]

I believe Jesse was also the guy who was big on setting up a wrestler's union and was always very very tough when negotiating contracts and getting himself a decent payoff. His WCW contract was massive. Guess it's the sort of thing that made him an electable politician.

 

 

Here he is in some random interview:

 

Wrestling, as much as it has advanced, is still in the dark ages. The manner of calling themselves self-employed which is a lie. The fact that they don’t have a union and benefits. Working conditions that a union can bring. Health care benefits, retirement benefits. It’s sad the stranglehold is so powerful on the talent. It’s not that it is a bad business, it’s a terrific business but it could be even better for the participants in it. Until they get the courage to not fight with each other in their jockeying positions of success, if I can put it that way. Until they start thinking as one and benefiting all. The way the business works is where you are all an individual and you seek the benefits for yourself. Until that is overcome wrestling will always remain in the dark ages as far as employment goes. Don’t get me wrong, the people that are there choose to be there. It is their right to choose it and I don’t begrudge them, I did it. But the fact that there is no camaraderie against the promoters to form a union is really sad.

[Al]

Flair/Sting vs Rude/Vader and I think Rhodes/Regal as well has Bobby Heenan on commentary with new commish Nick Bockwinkel nearby. The banter between the two is nearly non-existent, and that's a disappointment.

[flyonthewall2983]

You mean Heenan and Bockwinkel right?

[JerryvonKramer]

Am I the only one who really doesn't rate Regal in that first WCW run? So many "dream matches" he had during that time and none of them are that good. The Steamboat match blows, the Arn match isn't that good, the Rhodes, Pillman and Austin matches aren't good, the Zbyszko match sucks. Probably his best match from that period was with Bulldog.

[shoe]

Am I the only one who really doesn't rate Regal in that first WCW run? So many "dream matches" he had during that time and none of them are that good. The Steamboat match blows, the Arn match isn't that good, the Rhodes, Pillman and Austin matches aren't good, the Zbyszko match sucks. Probably his best match from that period was with Bulldog.

 

Regal in that 1st WCW run is great. When 1st viewing him I didn't get him as a worker. Watching the run years later he is great.

[NintendoLogic]

Regal has always been a bit overrated, I think. He's someone who's great at the little things but not so great at the big picture-type stuff.

[JerryvonKramer]

Main problem for me is that you'll have a 15 minute match that never progresses beyond matwork and the occassional European uppercut. Smart matwork is fine, and Regal was better than most, but for me in a 15-minute match I want some sort of progression:

 

First 5-6 minutes: matwork

 

7-10 minutes: progression to strikes

 

10+ minutes: suplexes, piledrivers, high spots

 

That's my main problem, the matches never seem to break out of 2nd gear. As a fan, I always kind of feel hard-done by if I sit through a 15-minute time-limit draw and no one has even busted out a suplex. The Daveyboy match is great because of the chain sequences and great counter wrestling, but the stuff with Steamboat for example is just boring to me. Steamboat was having great matches in 94, so the blame has to lie with Regal. I know people rate the Arn match but I was disappointed by that too. Depends what you're looking for I guess.

[Loss]

Am I the only one who really doesn't rate Regal in that first WCW run? So many "dream matches" he had during that time and none of them are that good. The Steamboat match blows, the Arn match isn't that good, the Rhodes, Pillman and Austin matches aren't good, the Zbyszko match sucks. Probably his best match from that period was with Bulldog.

Not every match was great, but I have no idea how you can say the Arn match "isn't that good" or that the Zbyszko match "sucks". Also, I don't think he ever faced Austin in WCW.

[El-P]

I haven't seen that much early Regal stuff in WCW, but my recollection of the Zbyszko match is that it was excellent.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's been a few years now and my wrestling palette may have changed. Guessing this match is on the 94 Yearbook.

[Chess Knight]

I love a lot of Regal's WCW run, but their are *some* disappointments. Never huge on the 93 Arn match, but I really like SuperBrawl. Steamboat matches are all good, but I know a lot of people who rate the Fall Brawl higher than I do. Love love love the 9/93 ten minute they had, though. Love it. The WCWSN Zbyszko match is insanely great. Slamboree is just regular great. Clash one is good. Has other really good stuff sprinkled in his run with Terry Taylor, Johnny B. Badd, the Patriot, etc.

[NintendoLogic]

The Arn Superbrawl match certainly had its moments, but the wonky psychology kind of hurt it. Arn spends most of the match working on Regal's arm despite his taped-up leg being the obvious target. Then he starts going after the leg toward the end, rendering the arm work pointless. And the Zbyszko Saturday Night match never struck me as anything more than just another match.

[Loss]

Go into threads for those matches and review them.

[NintendoLogic]

I already reviewed the Superbrawl match.

 

The thing is, I feel like there's a tendency to pile on whenever Jerry goes against the grain. I've certainly been guilty of that, so I think it's only fair that I should back him up when I agree with him. And I wanted to provide something more substantive than "Yeah, I didn't think those Regal matches were all that hot either."