Ring of Honor Wrestling

[WrestlingPower]

The Quinn thing is the only angle/storyline thing that hasn't been on the TV at all.  There was a more extensive Brody King package done a month or so ago that was internet only where he was outside & burned a picture of Rush that was really cool.  The Week By Week normally airs the pre-match packages for the TV a few days early and there have been occasions where that has sold me on watching the match.  I'm to the point where I'm willing to pick & choose what I watch from the TV.

Based on what's been announced, I'm really only interested in the Brody vs. Rush match for Final Battle.  I would be fine with them putting the belt on King also.  I'm not at all familiar with his ROH career but it would be a welcome change for them to put the title on someone on the rise.  I guess I'm still thinking about the original ROH regime where there were several guys that got the belt like 6+ months too late.

[G. Badger]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:51 AM, SirEdger said:

The first time I saw Brody King was a match he had with Jungle Boy in PWG in January 2019 (think it's the first Jungle Boy match I saw as well) and I'd be damned if I didn't say I wasn't entertained by what I saw. Typical hoss that I like to see in the ring and with Jungle Boy bumping like crazy for him, just made the match better.

I could get behind Brody King as ROH World Champion. Been a while since we haven't seen a brute holding the title and I kinda miss the days when Samoa Joe was running roughshod over the company as the champ.

I was thinking the same thing with Brody King as a Samoa Joe type bruiser champ. He gets my vote too!

 

[G. Badger]

Here are the matches that have been announced for Final Battle thus far:

ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH
CHAMPION RUSH vs. BRODY KING

GRUDGE MATCH
JAY BRISCOE vs. EC3

ROH PURE TITLE MATCH
CHAMPION JONATHAN GRESHAM vs. FLIP GORDON

ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH
CHAMPIONS JAY LETHAL & JONATHAN GRESHAM vs. MARK BRISCOE & PCO

GRUDGE TAG TEAM MATCH
MATT TAVEN & MIKE BENNETT vs. THE RIGHTEOUS (VINCENT & BATEMAN W/VITA VONSTARR)

FOUR-WAY MATCH FOR ROH WORLD TELEVISION TITLE SHOT
TONY DEPPEN vs. DAK DRAPER vs. LSG vs. JOSH WOODS

ROH WORLD TELEVISION TITLE MATCH
CHAMPION DRAGON LEE vs. WINNER OF FOUR-WAY MATCH

ROH WORLD SIX-MAN TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH CHAMPIONS MEXISQUAD (BANDIDO, FLAMITA & REY HORUS) vs. SHANE TAYLOR & SOLDIERS OF SAVAGERY (MOSES & KAUN)

FIRST-EVER PURE RULES TAG TEAM MATCH
THE FOUNDATION’S TRACY WILLIAMS & RHETT TITUS vs. FRED YEHI & WHEELER YUTA

 

ROH announced they'll be airing the first hour for free on YouTube. The 4 way match is going to be featured. I'm hoping the pure rules tag match will be there as well. Very psyched to see Fred Yehi back in a ROH ring.

[Migs]

Not a bad show in terms of an efficient use of the roster they have. But Dalton Castle has to be on the way out to not even have a spot on the show, right?

[G. Badger]

Some big news regarding Final Battle per ROH'S site:

"As a result of pre-travel testing, the following performers will not appear at the Final Battle pay-per-view on Dec. 18:

Bandido
EC3
Flamita
Kenny King

All four performers are doing well and resting at home. ROH wishes them a speedy recovery and looks forward to their return to action in 2021.

All other ROH performers, production staff and general staff are safely in the ROH bubble after passing their second round of tests."

 Looks like Dalton might have a spot after all...I would be sad to see him go so, I hope he stays. This is a giant last minute shake up.

[Migs]

It clearly eliminates the EC3-Brisco match and the six-man title match. Honestly, in the COVID era, there's really no reason to time fill - I wouldn't bother replacing those matches. Maybe I'd do Jay vs Shane Taylor since they're the major guys who would be left out and they at least have an issue.

[Migs]

Feel bad for ROH on this one, this is crazy dumb. From Meltz:

Apparently Bandido tested positive for COVID antibodies because he previously had it and that's why he was pulled from ROH, not that he has it now.  Evidently Maryland's commission wouldn't allow anyone with the antibodies to work.  Bandido took a blood test for COVID and it came back negative and also was tested this week by CMLL and it came back negative.

[Tim Evans]

I guess ROH found out EC3 was working Florida indies including ones that don't require masks.

[G. Badger]

I watched the free hour of Final Battle on YouTube. It was pretty good like a bonus hour of the TV show. The 4 way was fun with a surprise win. The pure tag match was good but needs some kinks worked out...or they shouldn't try to test out every rule in the early matches. Tag over the top rope, holding the tag rope, pin break ups count as a rope break etc. I felt that the rules held back what could have been a great match. Still more Yehi in ROH is something I won't complain about. If I had Honor Club, I would have watched the whole thing. If anyone saw it all, what did you think?

[sek69]

So it looks like the Rush family all re-signed for at least another year, which is great news since the Mexico City area went back to red status recently. Lucha groups of any significance will be on ice for the time being so it will be nice having Rush and Dragon Lee somewhere they can work regularly in a safe-as-possible environment since ROH does the bubble deal before tapings. 

[Migs]

14 hours ago, G. Badger said:

I watched the free hour of Final Battle on YouTube. It was pretty good like a bonus hour of the TV show. The 4 way was fun with a surprise win. The pure tag match was good but needs some kinks worked out...or they shouldn't try to test out every rule in the early matches. Tag over the top rope, holding the tag rope, pin break ups count as a rope break etc. I felt that the rules held back what could have been a great match. Still more Yehi in ROH is something I won't complain about. If I had Honor Club, I would have watched the whole thing. If anyone saw it all, what did you think?

The main show was fine. The empty arena stuff is really hard to take for three hours, but I'd say the tag title match, TV title match and the main event were all pretty good. As usual with ROH, everyone worked hard, so even the stuff that wasn't great (way too long Kingdom tag match, the Danhausen match, a 25-minute Flip Gordon mat wrestling match) wasn't terrible. A fine effort that was just lacking a spark.

[WrestlingPower]

I really enjoyed the show, much better than watching the TV.  The energy level of the announcers was up and the matches having meaning added to the excitement level.  My endurance for wrestling shows is nowhere near what it once was so I watched it in 3 parts.  I can't imagine watching a 4-hour show in one stretch so there may be those that thought it was on the long side. 

I'm really coming around on the pure rules matches.  Tracy Williams is the master of them and Gresham too as you can tell they spend a lot of time thinking thru the psychology of working the matches around the rules of the division.  Even so 2 Pure matches out of 10 is probably the limit.  To me they should have no more than 1 per PPV show and only on TV every 4th week or so.  I do have to wonder how these matches would play in front of crowds.  They seem perfect for an empty arena where you have a captive audience at home that's hearing the commentators describe the minor "small room" details that form the structure of the matches.  Not sure that live crowds are going to watch intently enough to get into 5 minutes of arm work that then gets capitalized on 5+ minutes later.

My thoughts seem in line with a lot of online discussion I've seen and listening to Meltzer's review.  I seem to be the low marker on the Jay Briscoe match.  I want to see Jay doing more spots and have really grown tired of Taylor's strike based (and very little else) offense.  If they do end up putting Taylor in their main title picture, to me that telegraphs how much of a depth issue the promotion has.

So yeah, if you are tempted to watch modern ROH, you can't go wrong with this show.  Is it must see? Not at all.  Does it compare to previous years of ROH? Not at all.  Are you going to be blown away by any performances, personalities or athletes to justify watching this instead of the 100s of videos in your collection? HELL NO

A friend and I do the weekly "Honor Bound" podcast and we will be recording our recap show tonight and it will drop late tomorrow night.  Go search it out for more fleshed out opinions.

[sek69]

I suppose everyone figured it would happen when Mike Bennett came back, but Maria is confirmed to be back in ROH too.

[G. Badger]

Thanks for the recaps on the show! 

[C.S.]

ROH cut ties with the rapist Marty Scurll.

Savage tweet:

 

[joeg]

4 minutes ago, C.S. said:

ROH cut ties with the rapist Marty Scurll.

Savage tweet:

 

Was Scurll actually convicted of, charged with,  or sued in civil court for an actual crime or is this just another twitter rumor/accusation? 

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, joeg said:

Was Scurll actually convicted of, charged with,  or sued in civil court for an actual crime or is this just another twitter rumor/accusation? 

Pretty sure he admitted it, but someone else can dig up those tweets or interviews.

[El-P]

No, he did not. He admitted to consensual sex with a girl whose age was legal in the UK when it happened. She has accused him of rape.

[C.S.]

2 minutes ago, El-P said:

No, he did not. He admitted to consensual sex with a girl whose age was legal in the UK when it happened. She has accused him of rape.

After a drunken bar hook-up.

Can't legally consent when you're drunk.

[El-P]

7 minutes ago, C.S. said:

After a drunken bar hook-up.

Can't legally consent when you're drunk.

Yeah, because people never ever have consensual sex after drinking... I'm not saying anything about the Marty Scurll case because I know exactly nothing apart from what has been said.

But I'm sorry, and this is totally off-topic and not meant to get into a debate, but having sex while being drunk doesn't equal rape (and rape doesn't need alcohol, although it can absolutely be a factor in more ways than one). Either that or me and one of my ex have both raped each other repeatedly for years. Really now, let's be serious.

[joeg]

The whole Speaking Out Movement to me is nothing more than a lot of mud slinging and innuendo in a business that's widely accepted as sleazy and exploitive. If you get into the wrestling business you should know this a head of time. In Scurll's case while a 30 year old man drunkenly hooking up with a 17 year old is absolutely fucking disgusting, its not illegal in the UK somehow. The only person (that I'm aware of) that is seeing the inside of a court room is Joey Ryan and that's in civil court and he's also counter suing. There haven't been any actual criminal charges filed as a result of Speaking Out, its had no more impact at cleaning up things than the old sleaze thread on DVDR because little to no evidence was provided for any of the accusations. Anyways that's my soapbox. 

[C.S.]

6 minutes ago, El-P said:

Yeah, because people never ever have consensual sex after drinking... I'm not saying anything about the Marty Scurll case because I know exactly nothing apart from what has been said.

But I'm sorry, and this is totally off-topic and not meant to get into a debate, but having sex while being drunk doesn't equal rape. Either that or me and one of my ex have both raped each other repeatedly for years. Really now, let's be serious.

I assume your ex wasn't a child. "Legal" or not, it's gross. And, you know, she says it's rape. Don't think your ex is saying that either.

4 minutes ago, joeg said:

The whole Speaking Out Movement to me is nothing more than a lot of mud slinging and innuendo in a business that's widely accepted as sleazy and exploitive. If you get into the wrestling business you should know this a head of time. In Scurll's case while a 30 year old man drunkenly hooking up with a 17 year old is absolutely fucking disgusting, its not illegal in the UK somehow. The only person (that I'm aware of) that is seeing the inside of a court room is Joey Ryan and that's in civil court and he's also counter suing. There haven't been any actual criminal charges filed as a result of Speaking Out, its had no more impact at cleaning up things than the old sleaze thread on DVDR because little to no evidence was provided for any of the accusations. 

Just because Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were worse than other celebrities, that doesn't mean the others didn't commit crimes too. 

Same with Joey Ryan vs. Marty Scurll and others.

Not that it makes any difference: He'll be in AEW by the end of the month anyway. 

[El-P]

1 minute ago, joeg said:

 little to no evidence was provided for any of the accusations. 

Because evidence are always extremely difficult in rape cases, because most of the time it's just the word of the victim vs the word of the accusee. Which is why most rape case don't go nowhere, which is why most victim don't even bother go to justice (not to mention the victim shaming that goes along).

The Speaking Out movement was sad but necessary. Sure, some cases probably were just rumors and evil people trying to manipulate others. But most cases probably were true, because that's the reality of things, sadly. Which is why it was long overdue, and hopefully it doesn't stop there in term of raising awareness of everyone on the topic and will encourage victims to speak up.

[El-P]

24 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I assume your ex wasn't a child. "Legal" or not, it's gross.

Gross has nothing to do with legal or not, it's a private matter.

24 minutes ago, C.S. said:

And, you know, she says it's rape.

Yes. He says it wasn't. She says it is. That's about it as far as we know. If it was rape, he should be sent to justice and condemned for his crime. If it wasn't, it's nobody's business.

Also, there's no way in hell Scurll ends up in AEW with this accusation on his head.

[joeg]

Here's my point, when accused of something heinous, a person can't get their reputation back on twitter. The only way to do that is with an acquittal or a victory in civil court. Without a trial there's no way to prove guilt or innocence or sort out the facts in public, its all just rumor and innuendo. Innocent until proven guilty is literally one of the cornerstones of American society. Yet people are treating every rumor from Speaking Out as cold hard fact. And please don't equate MeToo with Speaking Out. Actual people went on the record with authorities and filed actual charges in the Me Too movement, actual people went on the record and used their real name when leveling accusation. They weren't hiding behind a twitter handle.  It encapsulates everything wrong with the internet.

That's my biggest thing. Me Too was kicked off by a maid, an illegal immigrant no less,  going to the NYPD and charging the head of the IMF with assault, while he was running for president of France.  Speaking Out was kicked off with anonymous accusations against Jim Cornette and his wife about their swinger life style? Alright I'm off my soapboax,

One more thing, while not necessarially a rapist, Scurll is definately a creep. And being released from ROH to land somewhere better, how is that punishment for hooking up with someone half his age? It isn't. You know what is punishment for that sort of behavior? Being charged with statutory rape and distribution to a minor. But he wasn't charged so until then it's all rumor and innuendo.