New Truly Independent ECW Documentary

[Slasher]

Lemme ask, Dylan, what exactly do they want these non fans to do after watching the doc? It isn't like there is an ECW for them to go to afterwards. Let's say they convert to being fans of that product and the history within... then what? Point being, I do agree with Andrews in that this is very much so geared towards existing fans. In the words of the family annihilator of wrestling, "prove me wrong".

[Dylan Waco]

Lemme ask, Dylan, what exactly do they want these non fans to do after watching the doc? It isn't like there is an ECW for them to go to afterwards. Let's say they convert to being fans of that product and the history within... then what? Point being, I do agree with Andrews in that this is very much so geared towards existing fans. In the words of the family annihilator of wrestling, "prove me wrong".

 

AFter you watched "If A Tree Falls" did you join Earth First! or go to work for a logging company?

[Childs]

It's actually sort of bizarre to suggest that movies exist to get you to do something. There are some advocacy films, of course, and some gigantic movies that exist in significant part as ads for product. But I assume most directors are hoping to tell a good story and, if they're lucky, make a little money.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

There are a lot of successful and critically acclaimed documentaries about subjects that you would think the "average" person would have no interest in whatsoever. I don't see why a well-done documentary on ECW couldn't be one of those films.

[JNLister]

What are the extras on the DVD? Are they worth an extra $10 over getting the download of the main feature?

[tigerpride]

Lemme ask, Dylan, what exactly do they want these non fans to do after watching the doc? It isn't like there is an ECW for them to go to afterwards. Let's say they convert to being fans of that product and the history within... then what? Point being, I do agree with Andrews in that this is very much so geared towards existing fans. In the words of the family annihilator of wrestling, "prove me wrong".

 

AFter you watched "If A Tree Falls" did you join Earth First! or go to work for a logging company?

 

That was a tremendous documentary. While it was a sympathetic portrayal, I didn't feel sorry for the main guy depicted in the movie.

[rovert]

Isn't the publication's heyday but still super cool to see it be the headline of the Torch:

[Slasher]

Sorry, but wrestling is so niched and ECW even more so, I just don't see any non fans getting into it unless they were sitting with a wrestling fan buddy who went "Hey dude, check this cool thing out." That was my point, not necessarily that they are inviting people to go do stuff. A wrestling fan who isn't familiar with ECW (younger crowd or late comers) might feel inspired to look further into the legend of ECW but a non fan? Not likely. Therefore they probably could have gotten away with showing the fuller story without omitting footage or whatever out of some misguided sense of keeping it clean for an audience that doesn't exist or if they do, comprise of the way out minority.

 

Edit: just to clarify, I don't care if they showed the Mass Transit incident footage or not. And I don't really have a dog in this issue at all but I was just lending my support to Andrews's idea that the DVD is meant for fans moreso than non fans. That is all.

[Guest Andrews]

Isn't the publication's heyday but still super cool to see it be the headline of the Torch:

Doesn't Wade appear in this though?

[Guest Andrews]

What are the extras on the DVD? Are they worth an extra $10 over getting the download of the main feature?

How much is the download, and from where John?

[JNLister]

Highspots (.com not .tv) has it for $15. The DVD extras appear to be:

 

 

Billy Corgan & Lou D'Angeli discuss their ECW angle.

Alternative opening sequence.

Tour of ECW Arena with Bob Artese.

Elks Lodge Tour with Tony Lewis.

New Jack Stories (there are three)

Bodycount Match story as told by Tod Gordon and John Grunge.

[Moonsault Marvin]

It looks like Meltzer isn't the only one having editing problems. The headline in the picture says "Baried Wire City" instead of "Barbed Wire City."

[JNLister]

Just heard the guys who made the documentary plan to have it up for download on the main barbedwirecity.com site at some point for $12, which I assume means a bigger take for them overall.

[jpchicago23]

Just got mine in the mail. I'm tempted to watch this and Rise and Fall back to back.

[flyonthewall2983]

I found it to have some of the same problems the World Class doc had (editing issues, footage shot on low-grade digital or VHS), but at least that one had a more interesting through-line and engaging story on several levels. I felt this one was really for the fans, and if their only aim was to try and bring non-fans to this it would have failed miserably. That said, I liked it as a wrestling fan. I felt the "Extreme Reunion" stuff was necessary to show how things have changed. The Balls Mahoney footage in particular was quite heartbreaking compared to his 2001 interview where he was (relatively) more alert and witty and a good story-teller to have me laughing at the story of the riot he cause (and forgot about!).

 

I thought it was hilarious that the first sound you hear in the documentary is Alfonso's whistle. Likewise hilarious is Douglas' Livestrong gear. I liked Billy Corgan, especially the footage in the bonus stuff of the angle he was involved in. Am I wrong, or didn't he show up in ECW once before this and actually play a song in the ring? I thought I heard about this once in the late 90's, before the TNN era.

[goodhelmet]

Just heard the guys who made the documentary plan to have it up for download on the main barbedwirecity.com site at some point for $12, which I assume means a bigger take for them overall.

Highspots is trying to say that when they sell a download, it is just like streaming so they don't have to give the filmmakers a cut. Get the download from the actual site.

[JNLister]

Listening to a Mitchell/Keller show, they heard Feinstein didn't want to license the Kulas footage as although there shouldn't be any legal issue with doing so, he's gunshy after being sued by the Kulas family.

[Dylan Waco]

That's exactly what it was. We ask Johnny about that outright and discuss some other criticisms of the movie on episode 40 of the Wrestling Culture Podcast which went up today.

[WrestlingPower]

(As with any review I don't claim to have been able to do a better job, I just thought some of the production decisions weren't ones I would have made.)

 

I finished watching the movie & the nearly one hour of extras. I really enjoyed mostly everything. The movie was very balanced, the 2 hours flew by and it was a very compelling story even though it was one I was familiar with. I can’t say there was anything glaring that I learned but it was really cool how it was pieced together with comments from such a wide variety of people and with the fancam footage. I don’t know if this is a criticism or not but for those wanting more from the bigger names that were in ECW, they did the best with what they had and had a good cross section of guys there from the various stages of the company. One might argue there was an over-reliance on Mike Johnson & Dave Scherer but those guys lived it and built their careers off of covering ECW and didn’t just cover it from afar.

 

I especially liked the bonus features on the iconic buildings of ECW, the Arena itself (which it appears was filmed in 2001) and the Elks Lodge in Queens (which I’m guessing was filmed then too). The coolest part of those segments was how they laid in footage of the actual jam packed ECW events over top of what the buildings were like post-ECW.

 

The one negative that I will say about the film that kind of bugged me was the Extreme Reunion footage. It seemed really out of place & kind of broke up the continuity of the story. Interrupting the narrative on ECW's history to show Shane Douglas going to the hotel to figure out what was up with a drugged Sabu seemed very random why that was even in there. The Jerry Lynn segment was cool & all but seemed out of place as well especially since it had nothing to do with anything else and the story they were telling did not focus on individual wrestlers. I think they could have quickly mentioned the fact there had been innumerable ECW reunion attempts over the years and this was the latest one as a way to set the stage as to a context for the 2012 footage without including random stories from that promotion. It's not germane to the topic at hand. To me it came off as if this was the only attempt at a revival and also possibly them just feeling compelled to make use of this footage they had access to shoot. The DVD box explains that the story contains a juxtaposition of the story of the promotion itself against a backdrop of a singular event in 2012 but to me all that was unnecessary and was time better spent fleshing out more of the ECW history.

 

To me the “alternate beginning” showing the roots of ECW from the TWA would have been more factually correct than the muddy focus at the beginning with the Extreme Rising stuff. I do think they needed to set the stage as to where ECW fit into the national landscape though that they may not have had with the TWA-focused intro.

 

I did like that the story had a focus throughout, it was all about how the company relied on its fans, the fans reaction to things, and the business side of the company itself. What its strengths were, what made it different and how everything worked together to run as long as it did. There were no attempts to be all things, as in no lengthy pieces on the talent, storylines, or characters. It was about the business and the culture and the film stayed on task (aside from the Extreme Rising stuff). To me the segment on the Dudleys was more about what it did in relation to the crowd than a focus on them as an act or overemphasizing their importance.

 

A couple things I think were missing that should have been included were segments on the women and the international talent. Tapping into their audience’s sexual desire was as big a part of their appeal as the violence. To me they should have tried to get comments from Francine or Beulah or someone and at least touched on the lesbian angle. They also failed to mention about how ECW gave a break to international talents that their tape trading audience might have been familiar with. To me it seemed they oversimplified things as saying the violence & irreverence & unpredictablility was what set them apart (with numerous comments of people saying how that wasn’t the only appeal). But to me these 2 things should have been touched on.

 

One other thing I wanted to touch on from talking with one of the producers during the early stages of this. They seemed to be overly concerned during production about making a movie that could be featured at film fests and would be larger in scope than just appealing to a wrestling audience. On those counts I think they really failed unfortunately but I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I can't imagine anyone not into wrestling being the least bit interested. There was a lot of narrative/exposition at the front trying to paint the picture of the wrestling landscape at the time & how ECW tried to be an alternative & what they did to be that. But I can't see any non-fan (or anyone with no exposure to wrestling at all) caring in the least to invest 2 hours into this unless it's like a case study in a Sociology class. Especially since they are talking about a time frame of 18 years ago and using SD footage to tell the story (which by the way didn’t take away one iota from my enjoyment of it).

 

So overall I give this my highest recommendation. I was obviously more connected to this since I’ve been friends with Johnny P. for several years and donated to the project but this is a worthwhile movie to watch whether you are a fan who came along post-ECW or lived thru it. It truly recaptures the magic that existed at that time and makes you long for aspects of that again.

[Dylan Waco]

Cool review Tim.

 

A couple of quick things - on the podcast today we touched a bit on the "why didn't they cover the good wrestling/international talent" aspect. We also directly addressed the women in ECW issue which I think has been (by FAR) the most thoughtful criticism of the film so far.

[jpchicago23]

Man Shane Douglas looks full blown tranny in the 2012 stuff. Looks like his goatee is died his hair is girl flat, and he seems to be wearing makeup. Richards looks to be doing great, always liked him

[Guest Andrews]

Man Shane Douglas looks full blown tranny in the 2012 stuff. Looks like his goatee is died his hair is girl flat, and he seems to be wearing makeup. Richards looks to be doing great, always liked him

That, or Eddie Izzard

[Guest Andrews]

That's exactly what it was. We ask Johnny about that outright and discuss some other criticisms of the movie on episode 40 of the Wrestling Culture Podcast which went up today.

Def checking this out!

[WrestlingPower]

In some ways I almost see Shane Douglas as a more tragic figure than Axl, Balls, or New Jack. Those guys arguably didn't have all that much going for them and as I guess Wade Kelller said in the film, it's not surprising those kind of guys gravitated to Heyman/ECW and were willing to do whatever to get over in that lifestyle & it's not a huge shock they got caught up in the culture. Douglas on the other hand, if memory serves, was all but retired in 1994 and they had to convince him to come back as The Franchise, and I think even that was supposed to be a part time deal. I think he was going to medical school or something. But he got bit with the bug BAD to the point that here we are 12 years later and he is the main guy it seems continually trying to spearhead the next ECW movement. For a guy who seemingly was so well equipped for life outside of wrestling to continously stay caught up in the whirlwind of banging his head against the proverbial wall trying to run the same type of fed over & over to diminishing returns is quite sad. Even if he insists on being in the business you'd think by this point he would realize the ECW ship has sailed & try to use his business knowledge, promotional connections, and/or agent/producer skills toward something a little more fulfilling.

[jdw]

I don't think he retired at any point in 1994. He did the draw with Funk on the first ECW card of the year, and the second was The Night The Line Was Crossed. Other than November to Remember 1993, it looks like he was working all of the ECW Arena cards after coming into the promotion in August 1993.

 

Now it was a pissant promotion not working many shows at the time, so he probably could teach while also working the monthly Arena cards. But he had won the title quickly in 1993, and with the belt passing to Sabu and then to Funk, it set up the early 1994 three-way storyline.

 

There is something a bit tragic in Shane because he probably could have gotten out early and a normal, sane life. But he turned 29 at the end of 1993, he'd been in pro wrestling since 1982 with a lot more lows than ups, so he clearly had the bug and was just waiting for each little breadcrumb to justify continuing down that path. Things like the Dynamic Dudes and the partnership with Steamer opposite Pillman & Austin were just enough to justify it for him. It's hard to imaging him ever letting go.

 

John