Loss Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Talk about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 There were some really sloppy moments in this, especially from Kyoko, who I think is actively bad in this match. But the match layout and drama overcame most of that, and we still have a very good match. The Bull/Aja showdowns are epic. With the haircutting and general chaos, this feels like an 80s Dump Matsumoto match in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I was blown away by this one. Intense brawling that cut a great pace for all 24 minutes. I also don't really subscribe to Loss' opinion of Kyoko. She was the worst person in this match and had the poorest execution but to me that added to the frantic nature of the match and got over the stakes of the match. I also didn't think she had any alarmingly terrible botches unless I missed something. Only negative might be that the ending a little abrupt but the post match with Aja looking like a legit badass getting her head shaved and Bison making me want to cry with how much sorrow she showed from taking the fall was emotion you dont see often from wrestling. MOTYC for me for sure and I liked it better than any joshi match in 1990 except for Aja/Bull Cage 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I know I wasn't that high on the chain match, but the grittiness and intensity and atmosphere there was undeniable. The weapons-fest that this descends into felt about as gritty and intense as an episode of The Itchy & Scratchy Show. I don't know how else to describe people flinging around oversized nunchuks and bamboo sticks the size of telephone poles (while laying the shots in as lightly as possible because they're too heavy to do anything else with). One of the apparent stablemates standing by with a frigging hockey stick (always a big draw in Japan) just added untintentional humor that this match was desperately trying to avoid. Kyoko also blows every big spot she tries--she airballs on the Tenryu reverse elbow, almost kills herself doing a plancha, almost Hayabusas herself trying to do a springboard something-or-other, and the leapfrog-Bull-into-a-corner-kick spot was a neat idea but looked like she did as much damage to herself as to the opponent. So, all that shit needed to go away. And it did (except for Inoue), and we got back to an actual wrestling match with a pretty good build to the ending. I liked Nakano & Inoue's counter to the double-Irish-whip spot a lot, and it was a good way to get Aja out of the picture and leave Bison alone against both opponents, which spells doom. The contrasting images of Bison on the chair in despair and Aja stewing stoically is pretty great. But this was yet another joshi match that, even for a big stipulation blowoff type match, crammed more into it than the match needed. Maybe Toyota and Hokuto could have given them some pointers on how less is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I had a similar reaction to Pete in that my attention drifted during the outside brawling section, which featured a lot of wandering around and weak weapon shots. I did like Kyoko's energy during the first half of the match. The in-ring climax was a lot more focused, but the execution was sloppy, with Kyoko the main culprit. Maybe Chad didn't notice any big botches because she botched basically everything. The haircutting was really the best part of the whole scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I will rewatch this weekend since I'm so widely divergent from everyone else. Kyoko certainly seemed frantic and sloppy throughout the match but on her dive to the outside, that was not as bothced as say the Liger/Sasuke J Cup 1994 spot as she did make some contact. She also hit Aja flush on the back fist right before the end. I am always a pro story vs. pro execution guy but I guess I will try to watch this match with a more critical tone since everyone else see Kyoko as horrendous and I took her performance to be "in over her head" and overly excitable on the first watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ok going to give running PBP so everyone knows where I am coming from and to see how this match holds up to me. Opening starts hot with Aja/Bison jumping them in the entrance way and them brawling around the ring with streamers flying. The shots aren't the stiffest but the visual of the streamers flying and the brevity of this sequence getting over the structure and pace of this match was fine. Bull/Aja then go in the ring and have a good sequence. When Aja tags to Bison, Bull is able to gain control rather easily showing her dominance. Kyoko comes in and hits a flush dropkick and well executed suplex. Bison tags in Aja who much like Bull shows the dominance over the weaker opponent and beats the shit out of Kyoko. Kyoko takes a nasty piledriver and her selling off the back fist was good. Bison works over her some more with three back suplexs. this gets a nearfall on Kyoko. Scoop slam gets another nearfall. Worst spot of match so far as Bison throws Kyoko into the ropes and looks to go for a clothesline but Kyoko doesn't bump. Bison improvises well with a tight looking chinlock. Kyoko powers out and immediately tags in Bull. Bull fires off against Bison with a back suplex, hits Aja off the apron, then chokes Bison. Bison wills her way to tag Aja and she comes in and fires off trash can shots to Bull. I have no problem with that in this type of match. She grazes Bull on the first spinning back fist but Bull sells the spot appropriately. She then wastes Bull with a couple more but misses one and Bull goes tot he ropes. Bison prevents Bull from doing the legdrop from the top and we get a moment with all four women in. Bull gets scissors and cuts a piece of Aja's hair which she freaks the fuck out over. We then get a little back and forth with the scissors and each taking hair chunks out. I liked this from danger standpoint and stipulation standpoint. The action goes to the outside for the first time since the beginning. Kyoko slams Bison on the floor which looked good. The brawling is fairly short lived out there and even though the section was pretty pointless it s was not really aimless or drawn out at all. We then get the weapons showdown that everyone seems to hate but it is again really quick I thought the shots didn't look that bad although the weapons should have been smaller. This is my least favorite section on the first watch and honestly wasn't as bad or as long as I remembered this time. That whole sequence is a 1.5 minute section. Chain gets brought in and then choking on Aja with it looks pretty gross. She also takes a header right into the post. Bison and Kyoko have a chain and run to the back where Bull takes advantage of taking a chunk out of Bison's hair. Again I wont argue that this is great stuff but it is quick and served some purpose overall. This leads to a sequence I really like where they are all 4 in the corner and Bull keeps going after Bison with the scissors and her screaming. Kyoko gets slammed to guardrail in best one of those spots so far in the match. Bison puts the choke on Bull for a while which a. gets over the move well and b. shows off bisons good facial expressions. Double ddt to Bison by Bull and Kyoko. Nasty powerbomb on Bison with a sort of botched cover but ref didn't count and Bison sold it perfectly. Aja gets tagged in and is a house of fire on bull. Heat is not great and work is not super but I wouldnt say horrible either. Koyko comes in and gets some offense of Aja. Her first back elbow from top hits Aja leg, second hits chest, and she fires off a good looking german for a nearfall. Aja reverses a move and lunges for the tag in a nice bit of desperation. Bull gains the advantage using the nunchucks on Bison and gives her another nasty powerbomb broken up by Aja. Double slingshot suplex type maneuver performed onto Bison. Kyoko bothers a springboard back fist and Bison immediately uses that to tag in Aja. Bull goes up top but gets slammed off again by Aja. They are making sure that Bull doesn't get a top rope move. Double flapjack onto Bull. Bull gets a back suplex on Bison and we get the Kyoko dive which did have a high degree of difficulty with her jumping over Bull's shoulders and she didn't totally whiff on it. She gets one leg on the dropkick in the corner against Bison and this time Bull is able to deliver the top rope legdrop which would have been it but was saved by Aja and the trashcan. Dos E Doe spot with Kyoko/Bull turning around and taking out Aja/Bison and Kyoko gets good impact on Aja with her fist. Kyoko delivers a move to Bison and Bull does another top rope legdrop to end it. I watched the post match again and it was as emotionally draining as the first time. So as far as I can see these are the things that could possibly be seen as botches by Kyoko: 1. not bumping off the clothesline attempt from Bison 2. Springboard back fist 3. Dive to floor. First two were covered great by Bison and the third did make contact and had a high degree of difficulty. Everything else from her selling to delivery of the last backfist and her suplexes looked fine. I would not call her performance great but I also wouldn't say it was bad. Adequate to good seems like a fair range because she did add a lot to the story and stuff within the match to me. I had two flaws with this match that didn't come through as much on first watch. 1. The overall story of the match had too many aimless moments like running to the back. The match was more sequences instead of a sustained theme. 2. There was too much my turn your turn stuff throughout the match. I didn't sense much peril from one member or another. Kyoko could have been worked over more to show her as the obvious weaklink on Bull's team. On the plus side, I love the way they built to the top rope moves. You also did get a sense of the stakes in losing their hair with overall desperation and using of the scissors throughout the match. I will come down from my stance of MOTYC after this watch but have no problem calling this a great match overall especially adding in the ending scene and this would have been my # 22 match of 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Watched this while listening to the AWA podcast and a jazz album, but I thought it was perfectly fine. I don't think people are coming at these Joshi matches from the right perspective on the early yearbooks. This was a transitional period they were going through and none of the workers were on Bull's level. The fact they got some good-to-great matches out of this Bull/Aja feud should be seen as a plus rather than watching and waiting for something the workers weren't capable of. Kyoko being erratic in this match may be annoying, but it works in the sense that she's kohai to a much stronger senpai and being so young makes it understandable. I really didn't care that her timing was out on a lot of her leaping spots anymore than I cared that the weapon shots weren't laid in, because none of those spots really meant jack in the overall scheme of what they were doing. Besides, the hair cutting and the chain section were violent enough if that's what you want to see. I really liked Bull's selling of the no-selling of Aja's trash can shots. That was great stuff. If I had one criticism of the match it would be that instead of changing the pace and mixing things up once the match got rolling it had no brakes. This is pretty common in Joshi puroresu, but it would be nice to see them take things down then pick up the pace a bit. Bull working over Bison had a lot of potential, but there was never a point in this match where they stopped and isolated any one exchange. To their credit, they were able to keep the match moving despite the fact they worked the same rhythm throughout, but I think it would've helped to have worked the match in a more typical fashion. Joshi pro often fought to distinguish itself as something separate from other forms of wrestling, however, so I won't begrudge them their decision to be an all-out, offense-based style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 The pace you are criticizing in this match Daniel is a reason I think others prefer Aja/Bull from 1/4 because that match starts out pretty hot then dies down with some interesting mat work before returning to a furious pace for the finish with Hokuto making her comeback. The 1/11 Toyota vs. Hokuto match also has a unique structure and pace to the majority of joshi I have seen on the yearbooks so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Was kind of drifting off until they were using bamboo sticks to beat each other up. My interest would perk up when Bull and Aja were both in the ring but overall didn’t think much of this match. Inoue was indeed sloppy. Post match is the highlight when the hair being cut. Aja had a fierce look on her face while her head was being shaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 This strangely enough has became my most watched match of 2013 as I have seen this match 4 times. I feel kind of foolish because I like it a little less each time. It has went from one of my favorite joshi matches and a MOTYC to a real good match. The sloppiness seems to get amplified with each re watch and the story intensity declines. Still think the haircut is a chilling moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 It was extremely intense throughout as the teams tore into each other. There was a mix of high impact moves and hardcore weaponry. They even chopped off strands of hair during the bout. Kyoko was a weak link and looked a bit out of place. I loved how Bull looked worried when her partner was on the ring and in danger of costing her the magnificent head of blue hair! The other 3 more than made up for Inoue with some real hot action. Uneven for sure, but very dramatic and memorable. The post-match was even better and highly emotional. Beasty Lady cried and Aja was the Prison Bitch from Hell! Not an in ring classic but this was an unforgettable match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith_7 Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 There was some real sloppy parts to this match, mainly from Inoue but as someone else said I think the emotion and the desperation from each team not to lose can be a cover for Kyoko's botches as she was trying to go above and beyond her own capabilities at the time to not let Bull down. As much as this match had it's sloppy parts it also had some pretty great parts too. There was a spot when Aja is the corner and Bison is on her back in the ropes next to her with Bull trying to cut more of her hair off and Aja is holding back Bulls arm to prevent it whilst getting pummelled by Inoue at the same time which I fucking loved. Also Bull choking Aja with the chain looked fucking brutal!! What really puts this match over the top and into 'classic' territory for me is the haircut at the end and the complete contrast between Kong and Kimura as Bison is clearly devastated that she took the fall and is losing her long head of hair and Aja just sits like a boss. Emotionally draining from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretta Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I didn't feel the emotion here nearly as much as some of you did. I know we as wrestling fans love chaos, but this was too chaotic, expecially considering what was at stake. The brawls outside were too confusing to follow for the most part, and I'm sorry, but blatant weapons use (meaning it's seen by the referee) should always equal an automatic disqualification in matches where regular rules are believed by the fans to be enforced, regardless of country or preferred wrestling style. It should be the closest thing to an unbreakable universal rule that this business has, period. Otherwise, Vince was an idiot for not booking Hogan to hit people with chairs and get ten-second pinfalls in every match, to name just one example. In an environment such as this, Kyoko's so-called botches don't mean a thing, since all four of these women were just brawling around and beating the stew out of each other with whatever was handy anyway. Where did they get nunchuks and boards that big to begin with? The real drama was in the postmatch. It was something else to see the expressions on Bull and Kyoko's faces as they watched Aja and Bison being shaved. Now that they'd gotten what they wanted, they weren't sure it was such a good thing. The crowd seemed awed by the whole thing as well. For their part, Aja and Bison conveyed their humiliation and anger perfectly. Aja was stoic from the start, while you could almost reach out and touch Bison's utter misery, even after she stopped crying. The funny thing is, Aja looks even scarier and tougher bald than she did with hair! Seeing the scissors spots sprinkled throughout the match (which, perhaps hypocritically given what I just finished saying above, I had no real problem with in this context) gives me the idea for a twist on this stip: The winner of the match is the first person to cut/shave his or her opponent bald. This would have been a natural kind of feud blowoff for Brutus Beefcake in the late eighties had Vince found someone willing to have their hair cut in a match besides Ron Bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew wardlaw Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 I don't have too much to add here, but Bull and Aja Kong have such a presence and sense of dread about them. They feel scarier than most male wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Normally not a fan of the "big girl using weapons over and over" joshi stuff, but they made it work for me. I'm a blood and guts guy when it comes to wrestling, but this kind of stuff does not do it for me enough to put it in the top tier of matches, even with the great Aja vs. Bull dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 I'm in the middle with this. I thought a lot of this felt directionless, sloppy and messy, but there's good stuff to be found here. Inoue's reverse top rope elbow is a thing of brutal beauty and there's some cool spots in the finishing stretch. Aja and Nakano squaring off was the real meat of the match. They held nothing back. They attack each other with bamboo sticks and even try and cut each other's hair mid-match! ★★★ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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