Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Just finished this. The Lawler set that's been previously discussed can't come out fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I have about 90% of the available footage I know is out there. I will be working with Phil Schneider, Bix and Kris Z to make sure it is the most accurate and comprehensive Lawler set ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I really hope in the near future the PWO hosts a greatest wrestler poll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have no problem starting the nomination threads to make the case for people, as long as we let it play out for a few years before holding a vote. We can use The Microscope folder for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have no problem starting the nomination threads to make the case for people, as long as we let it play out for a few years before holding a vote. We can use The Microscope folder for that purpose. The Microscope is there. The infrastructure is in place. Let a thousand roses bloom in that forum. I am all for it, but I agree that at minimum the 90's yearbooks should be finished and the Lucha 80's Set should be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think the 90s yearbooks need to be completed but I also think the Portland, Lucha, Europe and NWA sets need to be released before jumping in. However, you guys are right... the infrastructure is there to begin but I am in no rush to do one right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 In an ideal world all of the above gets done before such a poll gets done. On the other hand by the time that point hits there will be a valid argument that we need sets on various stuff that occurred in the 00's to do a reasonable poll. I wouldn't want to set a timeline now, but the key is that the infrastructure is there and people are watching the footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I would just hate for a mid level Top 100 guy like Kengo Kimura gets lost when an 80s set or yearbook hasn't been released. Kimura will definitely make a Top 100 for me now. Wouldn't have sniffed the list before the NJ set. Nobody was making a case for him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I would just hate for a mid level Top 100 guy like Kengo Kimura gets lost when an 80s set or yearbook hasn't been released. Kimura will definitely make a Top 100 for me now. Wouldn't have sniffed the list before the NJ set. Nobody was making a case for him either. I don't disagree. That is why I think at minimum you have to have Lucha out. Honestly I really think Portland should be too, but at least the Buddy Set exists. With Europe it would be ideal but there is a fuckload of it on youtube and it's not likely to get taken down. Â Anyhow my point isn't "it's a mistake to wait til those things are done" so much as it is that there will never really be a perfect time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Normally I couldn't listen to people talk for this long but this was a great show other than the Bret jokes. I thought everyone made good comments about their guy. Flair is Flair and I do have criticisms of him (which Loss did well to respond to) But felt that Dylan and Will had more work to get me thinking about Funk and Lawler mostly due to the lesser of footage I've seen on them. Really want to check out Funk as a face in early AJPW. Hopefully some of this made it to the 80's AJPW set. I've only seen bits and pieces of Lawler outside the yearbook so will need to track down more of his stuff from the 80s. Specifically, I want to see matches outside the studio/TV matches which can be too short to judge. Most of all I think the podcast got me excited about just watching more wrestling. Â I liked how the Funk/toolbox part of a match made it into the discussion about Terry. Only he could get away with that. Really enjoyable spot when I saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 41. Jerry Lawler – 1,927 points - 29 votes – 1 #1 vote – 2 top 5 votes – 4 top 10 votes VHB Bix #1 I was reading the Rey Mysterio thread in the Microscope and saw the results of the Smarkschoice poll. Who knew that Bix had it right all along?  Also, Kevin, I am working on the super duper mega Lawler set. And the Bret Hart jokes never get old... ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Listening to this again, I may have conceded the home promotion category for Flair. I still think Lawler probably takes it in the end. But Ric Flair helped Crockett expand in ways that Jarrett didn't. That's not a completely fair point, because Jerry Jarrett was the most conservative promoter in wrestling and wasn't going to take many chances on losing money. But Flair helped Crockett broadcast a supercard through closed circuit television. They built around him as their top star and were able to go national. Even in dying, Turner would not have purchased the company from JCP if Flair wasn't part of the package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I am not disputing your point but adding an addendum with Dusty Rhodes as the perfect foil for Flair when they went national. Flair and Dusty were 1A and 1B when Crockett went national. Lakers vs. Celtics, City vs. Country, High Class vs. Working Class. You can't undersell the impact of the two as a package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 If Dusty wasn't facing Flair, and Flair was on the card, Dusty didn't get top billing. He was Flair's top rival for sure, but I don't think it was exactly the same. Starrcade '83-'87 had Flair headlining every year, but Dusty only headlined when facing Flair. Dusty of course did headline plenty of shows against people who weren't Flair ... when Flair wasn't on the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I didn't say this on the show, but to me the biggest negative for Flair in a GOAT debate is that of the guys who I would seriously consider for that mantle he has by far the worst low points and they lasted for a substantial period of his career. This came up in a conversation with my brother last night and I figured it was worth mentioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I forgot to mention that going in my feeling was 1. Flair, 2. Lawler, 3. Funk  After listening to this show I would probably go 1. Flair, 2. Funk, 3. Lawler. That isn't a knock on Will, but Dylan got over very effectively the things that are unique to Funk. I did wonder if Funk has some rather unfair advantages though, like for example the fact he worked short stints, so him turning up is going to feel like an occasion. Like, for example, the fact that he never had a company's fortunes riding on him (unlike either of the other two).  Re: Flair, I think there was a moment when you all agreed that sometimes when a mystery guest / opponent is Funk or Lawler people don't always want to see them, and that people always want to see Flair. No one mentioned it, but there's one thing that is seldom brought up.  Fans in the WWF had Hogan from 84 to 93. And they were fed up of him.  Fans in the NWA / WCW had Flair from the late 70s to 1991. If you were a Mid-Atlantic fan you could legitimately have had him on your screen since 1974 and from 76 onwards on top of the card. And in 1991 they chanted "WE WANT FLAIR". Who was chanting "We Want Hogan" in 93?  Does Lawler have anything to put against that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I consider Funk's last outlaw gimmick to be a huge plus in the sense that he was able to sell himself a certain way where he knew he would never get stale. I can see the argument that it presents an advantage, I just don't see it that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I guess my response to that is that we don't know if he would have gotten stale or not. He was never tested by a 3-5 year main event run without time off where he worked in front of the same crowd, unless it happened in All Japan. I'd be interested in seeing if there were lots of skipped tours in the early 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I go 1 Funk 2 Lawler 3 Flair  Mostly due to Flair sucking pretty bad for such a long period. Actually he sucked pretty much as much as he was good.  I know everybody loves the Macho Man, but does he ever get a GOAT talk? He was great as a babyface and heel. Had amazing matches and some of the best ever. His promos and charisma is off the charts. Where does he rank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I guess my response to that is that we don't know if he would have gotten stale or not. He was never tested by a 3-5 year main event run without time off where he worked in front of the same crowd, unless it happened in All Japan. I'd be interested in seeing if there were lots of skipped tours in the early 80s. Again I don't consider it a negative that he didn't let himself get stale. I think that's smart marketing. Understanding that you are a valuable, special commodity is a big part of being a great wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Do you think he specifically had short runs for that reason, and that it was a deliberate decision? Or do you think it was coincidence, and that he just enjoyed taking time off, and took gigs when he felt like it or wanted to earn a little money? I think it has a trickle down effect, because it's a lot easier to put together a thoughtful performance with creative spots and bigger bumps when there's more time to think about things in advance, and to heal any nagging injuries. Â Terry Funk is unique in the world of wrestling, because he's the only part-timer eligible for full-time benefits, in this case being GOAT consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think the answer to the first couple of questions is "both." I think he took time off because he wanted to take time off to heal/spend time with family/do other shit AND I think he took time off because he knew he would stay fresh that way. He had his full run on the road with Amarillo, then as the guy who would prime Dory's title matches and then as the NWA champion himself. We just don't have much of it on tape. Â I think the flipside of the fact that working a less regular schedule allows you to think more about certain things is that if you aren't working with same guys night after night you don't have the benefit of a routine you can coast on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 One of the main reasons Terry retired in 1983 was he had acting gigs lined up especially for a TV show named Wildside which aired in 1985. Funk also did Over the Top, Road House, and other flicks in the late 80's. Terry never really stayed at home as he was busy either in All-Japan, WWF, WWC, and making appearances in JCP & CWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 If it means JVK ranks Lawler third, I'll take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Does Lawler have anything to put against that? Did Memphis fans ever get sick of Lawler? Did Japanese crowds tire of Funk? For guys who have reneged on their retirements, Funk is far less annoying than Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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