soup23 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 rvd you won my over talking about hash/Zangiev. Welcome aboard. I know Dylan disagrees with this but I still say lucha is not for everyone and really only besides joshi do I see a style that is harder to infiltrate. I consider myself a lucha novice but have watched a fair share and still a pondering whether Atlantis being very technico-ish in his apuesta match vs. Kung Fu was the norm and if not why they hell did he initiate the mask ripping and rudo spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 rvd you won my over talking about hash/Zangiev. Welcome aboard. I know Dylan disagrees with this but I still say lucha is not for everyone and really only besides joshi do I see a style that is harder to infiltrate. I consider myself a lucha novice but have watched a fair share and still a pondering whether Atlantis being very technico-ish in his apuesta match vs. Kung Fu was the norm and if not why they hell did he initiate the mask ripping and rudo spots. I don't disagree that Lucha isn't for everyone. Virtually every fan is going to have at least one promotion that they are going to loathe, or style. Lucha is not really a style or a promotion, but still. What I would say is that I don't think it is impossibly difficult to "get." And I would also Lucha brawls are actually easier to "get" than virtually any other kind of match I can think of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I always thought the biggest challenge in "getting" lucha was not the singles matches, but the trios matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I always thought the biggest challenge in "getting" lucha was not the singles matches, but the trios matches. The first Lucha match I ever saw was a cibernetico. That is the absolute worst possible way to try and start watching Lucha and kept me from going back for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am another newbie here and also another one who finds it hard to get next to lucha. I would never call it bad or be dismissive, it is simply a matter of taste, the style is just not for me and I do not enjoy lucha matches on the same level as most other styles of wrestling. The funny thing is that like the rvd guy I do really love elements of lucha in U.S. wrestling - WCW cruisers, flippydo matches, Rey Mysterio and other crossover workers. It is hard to pinpoint why, but there is just something about lucha itself that doesn't do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I still don't know what is meant by Lucha "style." Do people mean trios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I always thought the biggest challenge in "getting" lucha was not the singles matches, but the trios matches. The first Lucha match I ever saw was a cibernetico. That is the absolute worst possible way to try and start watching Lucha and kept me from going back for years. I can't even imagine. I've been watching lucha for a few years now, but I've never seen a Cibernetico match. Yet I'm still mildly concerned about being able to make sense of what's happening when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I know I'm alone with the HBK mentionNah, at least one or two people have voted for him... plus me. For rules, I'm going with "must be a natural-born American citizen, but the comparison includes their foreign matches". In adjusted alphabetical order: Steve Austin Mick Foley Terry Funk Eddie Guerrero Stan Hansen Shawn Michaels Rey Mysterio Jr The Necro Butcher Ricky Steamboat The Undertaker With "on a different day, I could pick this guy" honorable mentions for Kurt Angle, Bryan Danielson, Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler, AJ Styles, and Vader. I like this list here. Really, really love necro. The Low Ki & Joe matches from 2005 IWA Mid-South were some of my favorites from the last decade. Honestly I haven't seen that much of him but I love his style. I was just waiting for Tna to bring him in back in '05/'06 to feud with Raven or Joe when they actually pushed talented guys(unlike tonights Impact where Garrett Bischoff turned on Kurt Angle to join the Aces. What a joke Hogan & Bischoff have turned the promotion into. It angers me how their kids are now the top 2 pushed 'stars'.) Anyway back to necro, what's he up to? Saw the vader match and was sadly dissapointed. Any one have some recomendations for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I still don't know what is meant by Lucha "style." Do people mean trios? Hurricanranas, Planchas, Topes...matches with lots of Spanish named moves is all I got lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I really just mean lucha in general, as distinguished from other major subsets of wrestling like puro, British Wrestling, WWE, joshi, etc. If calling all lucha a "style" is too broad then fair play. But I don't mean to describe it by style as much as by the output. 'The matches I see from Mexican promotions' can be substituted and my point remains the same. The way that lucha is worked and presented is strange to me. Strange probably isn't a good word to use either, but I'm not sure what a good one would be. But the way the matches are structured and develop, the manner in which they move and connect and bump, all of that stuff, it just doesn't appeal to me as much and I can't get into it on the same level as I can do other "styles" that are unfamiliar to me, like puro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is an aside sort of, but I often think I would have LOATHED Japanese wrestling if I hadn't had people giving me the back story to things as I was getting into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Oddly enough, the first Japanese matches I ever saw were Maeda vs Fujinami and the famous Jumbo/Tenryu vs Choshu/Yatsu match. I didn't get Maeda vs Fujinami at all, but loved the tag. Then I saw Liger vs Samurai from the '92 BOSJ final and the '95 J Cup. Kind of a weird trajectory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 2) I said Lucha "style" meaning taking good aspects of Lucha and leaving the crap behind. Italking about WCW "Lucha libre": Rey Mysterio Jr., Eddy(saw the Havoc '97 match live, talk about hooked for life), Juvy Guerrera, Psicosis etc. Actually the Trios match from Bash At the Beach '97 was one of my early favorites. But all of the guys in that match had talent. So if those count, I like Lucha. Admittedly, I thought this might have been the case after I made my post. I think I may be getting a little cynical about people as of late. You can like and dislike what you want to. I wasn't getting uptight because you disliked something that I liked, but because I thought you were being dishonest. I still don't really get how you managed to pick up on the fact that we tend to like Memphis and Hashimoto, but not that we tend to like lucha and dislike post-comeback Michaels. But that doesn't give me the right to jump to conclusions like that. I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 See, I think it is just SLL that is angry and making everyone else angry. BANNED!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Anyway back to necro, what's he up to? Saw the vader match and was sadly dissapointed. Any one have some recomendations for him? I really like early IWA-MS Necro from 2001-2003 era. He had some good battle with Ian Rotten. The drunken death match vs. Corporal Robinson from the TPI in 2002 is one of those "it could only happen in pro wrestling" things. Another match I would highly recommend is vs. Toby Klein at the KOTDM 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I still don't know what is meant by Lucha "style." Do people mean trios? Hurricanranas, Planchas, Topes...matches with lots of Spanish named moves is all I got lol. Are you considering those good aspects of lucha or bad aspects of lucha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 See, I think it is just SLL that is angry and making everyone else angry. BANNED!!! You'll be sorry when everyone's getting along and people start getting bored. REVOLUTION!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is an aside sort of, but I often think I would have LOATHED Japanese wrestling if I hadn't had people giving me the back story to things as I was getting into it. I know what you mean and it is true for me to a large extent generally speaking, although not in regards to puro so much since I'm usually not that familiar with backstories for the Japanese matches I see. But after all this time I think my favourite lucha match is still the When Worlds Collide tag, which is helped immeasurably by being familiar with Eddie and knowing the backstory in great detail, not to mention Tenay explaining things as well. It has to be admitted that I am quite the lucha novice and it is entirely possible that I will grow to appreciate it more as I see more of it. But it isnt something that jumps out and grabs me. For example I've seen maybe half a dozen WoS matches in my life and I found those easier to get into than lucha, and I've seen dozens more lucha matches by this point. Its just one of those things. Horses for courses and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I would say that half of the El Dandy matches I have seen I would only classify as lucha because of the region they were aired in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I dont think I have seen an El Dandy match yet (dont shoot), so I am willing to check him out and see what I think. (Probably a stupid question, but quick recs would be awesome.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is an aside sort of, but I often think I would have LOATHED Japanese wrestling if I hadn't had people giving me the back story to things as I was getting into it. Definitely interesting -- why do you think the back story / context would've turned you off? I started watching a lot of Japanese by picking up tapes based on recs from the WON and years later looking things up. While I enjoyed what I watched, I recently started rewatching a lot of AJ from the DVDVR 80s project as well as all the 90s classics in chronological order and (re)reading a bit more about much of it along the way. Going back and watching in that fashion has been *significantly* more enjoyable, as I've been able to pick up on and appreciate a lot of little things that previously escaped me and better follow the story from match to match, year to year. Looking forward to doing the same w/ NJ as I'm just diving in to the '92 yearbook and will watch those straight through '96 and then beyond whenever there's time. As an aside, I've watched VERY little lucha -- as in maybe a few DVDs and a matches online worth. Have generally enjoyed it but am def interested in seeing a lot more on the yearbooks. Always wanted to get into it but never really made the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I would say that half of the El Dandy matches I have seen I would only classify as lucha because of the region they were aired in. I don't doubt that at all. But for novices, until they get a few (maybe a lot more) hours under their belt, it may not be that easy to distinguish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I dont think I have seen an El Dandy match yet (dont shoot), so I am willing to check him out and see what I think. (Probably a stupid question, but quick recs would be awesome.) El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (EMLL 03/23/90) El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (EMLL 06/01/90) El Dandy vs. El Satanico (EMLL 10/26/90) El Dandy vs. El Satanico (Hair vs. Hair) (CMLL 12/14/90) El Dandy vs. El Satanico (Hair vs. Hair) (CMLL 12/6/91) El Dandy vs. Negro Casas (CMLL 07/03/92) El Dandy vs. El Satanico (Hair vs. Hair) (CMLL 9/17/92) El Dandy vs. Javier Llanes (CMLL 2/22/94) El Dandy & Negro Casas & Hector Garza vs. El Hijo del Santo & Bestia Salvaje & Scorpio Jr (CMLL 11/22/96) El Dandy & Negro Casas & Hector Garza vs. El Hijo del Santo & Bestia Salvaje & Scorpio Jr (CMLL 11/29/96) El Dandy vs. El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (CMLL 12/06/96) El Dandy vs. Black Warrior (CMLL 11/02/96) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I always thought the biggest challenge in "getting" lucha was not the singles matches, but the trios matches. The first Lucha match I ever saw was a cibernetico. That is the absolute worst possible way to try and start watching Lucha and kept me from going back for years. I can't even imagine. I've been watching lucha for a few years now, but I've never seen a Cibernetico match. Yet I'm still mildly concerned about being able to make sense of what's happening when I see it. They're not terribly difficult to understand. The two famous ones from 1997 are really enjoyable. They're just big, multi-man elimination tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is an aside sort of, but I often think I would have LOATHED Japanese wrestling if I hadn't had people giving me the back story to things as I was getting into it. I'm looking forward to the lucha stuff on the 90 yearbook, as lots of people who's tastes are similar to mine pimp it. Just indulge me if I ask what the backstories are. Same with some of the Japan stuff. And sorry for thinking you might be a troll there, rvd356. I used to mod at a site that always full of trolls and sometimes shit sets off triggers in my thinking. It's like the world's dorkiest Vietnam flashbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.