The Boss, Man is he Big

[Matt D]

Be fair though Matt, this wasn't unfettered bigotry. I provided a framework for why I believe what I do AND said I'd be willing to listen to arguments in the three areas outlined in said framework. As pigheaded bigotry goes that's pretty generous.

I meant when the point was initially made. You were aghast.

[goodhelmet]

On the surface, I see where Jerry is coming from. It's like saying Jerry Lawler belongs in the GOAT discussion. Most Flair, Jumbo, HBK fans would instinctively say "WTF". When Matt D says Demolition is a good team, I instinctively go "WTF". For Jerry, when someone said Boss was better than Mr. money, he went "WTF" but had to do it in that long winded style of Jerry's. I can forgive him for that.

[Matt D]

And then when we go off and back up what we say with lots and lots of data you go.. "Oh, I see what you meant now even though I still disagree, but I am no longer going wtf, because I am better than those closed-minded HBK fans!"

 

And then we shake hands and you go back to forcing people to watch Portland footage so that the 80s project can continue.

[goodhelmet]

The difference is that Jerry's first post was in Stage 1... The instinct reaction.

[Matt D]

Where have we ended up here?

[goodhelmet]

Not talking about Boss Man. I want to hear SLLs thoughts on Boss Man. I want you to write some stuff detailing the way Boss Man's right thumb was always in the right spot when holding the nightstick. I want to mark out for Ray Traylor punching a dude in the face.

[soup23]

Does anyone have any post 1996 Boss Man recs? He defintely looked like he could still go in 1994.

 

I don't know why the attitude era is such a blind spot for me recalling matches of guys. Jarrett is the same way. Fuck if I can tell you one of his matches in detail from 1997 through his TNA matches with Angle.

[goodhelmet]

For post 96 WCW, we have to hope for some B side to pop up from Phil and Eric. For WWF, I don't recall anything that stood out as good.

[Bix]

The transition to Dungeon of Doom biker Big Bubba was pretty much the end of Traylor being anything of note in the ring. He went from having really fun, energetic matches with Alex Wright to bad, lethargic matches with Eddy Guerrero.

[ohtani's jacket]

Boss Man vs. Rick Martel, MSG 2/23/92 and Hershey, PA 9/1/92

 

These weren't very good. Both guys were capable of better, but Martel was coasting on schtick at this point. Schtick that was some of the weakest in the company. His selling was generally good, in fact I thought he made Boss Man's punches look better than anybody has so far, but he had nothing on offence. A couple of decent flurries from Boss Man and some reasonably inventive finishes as far as night stick vs. the atomizer goes, but pretty blah otherwise.

[ohtani's jacket]

Big Boss Man vs. Dusty Rhodes, Fresno, CA 8/9/89

 

This was rubbish. About the same length and the same amount of action as a squash. It was one of those matches where the feed the manager to the face to avoid having too much interaction between singles wrestlers. In this case, Dusty handcuffed himself to Slick and paraded him backstage while Boss Man for some unknown reason remained in the ring arguing with the ref. Hard to compare this to the Dusty/Dibiase matches since those were houseshow matches and this was a crap bit of TV, but folks weren't kidding about Boss Man trimming down for his face push. He really was heavy at this time.

[S.L.L.]

I want to hear SLLs thoughts on Boss Man.

You got it, Will.

 

Only problem is that, to be honest, it's been a while since I've sat down and watched a decent sampling of the Boss Man's work. So since I don't have access to Euclid's secret texts that mathematically prove his inferiority, I'm going to have to make like a mincing pinko junkie liberal and actually watch and dissect his body of work. That suits me just fine, though. I became a wrestling fan when The Big Boss Man was at the height of his powers, and I've always had a soft spot for the guy. But unlike other guys I grew up on, that soft spot never went away when I revisited him as an adult, so I'm more than happy to take a deeper look into the career of one Ray Traylor. To that end, I'm going to watch and review a match, interview, or angle from the man every day here and at Segunda Caida until I feel I have a thorough and clear (if not necessarily Complete & Accurate) picture of the man's career. Or until I just get tired of it. Whichever comes first. Also, while I appreciate OJ's willingness to do some legwork of his own on this matter, he and I tend to come at wrestling from different angles, so there will likely be some overlap in terms of matches reviewed, but you might get something from my review of a match that you won't get from his or vice versa. So hook up to the Traylor Hitch, everybody. We're taking a trip down to Cobb County, Georgia, and you better read the signs and respect the law and order. You know what happens if you don't.

[KB8]

Traylor was great in the Vader series in '94. The Spring Stampede match is honestly a top 20 match in company history to me, and everything I want in a slugfest between two beefies. They just knock fucking lumps out each other and Vader bleeds from his eye, and it could've been the result of about fifty different things. Their other matches don't quite reach that level, and I recall them being brought down by something silly in each of them (even if I'm blanking on specifics), but that is a match-up that I could watch all day.

[Hollinger.]

Bossman has always been one of my favorites. I'd have to sit down and do a little digging, but I liked a lot of his last WWF run. He'd gotten in damn good shape, though he was mostly used with guys that weren't great.

[Matt D]

Big Boss Man vs Test SmackDown 1/4/00

Official WWEFanNation youtube site link:

 

One problem with looking at matches from Boss Man's matches from his comeback is that the matches were so damn short back then. This went about four minutes. It was set up after two big encounters with Albert and Boss Man that Steph and Hunter put Test in and the main story was Boss Man working over Test's broken nose.

 

There's a lot you can see from this though. Boss Man had great nose-based offense. Lots of varied stuff including nasty knees and punches, dropping him on the barricade, a mugging sort of rear-noselock. He had smart cut-offs of hope spots, including a backelbow and boot in the corner to the nose. He ate Test's offense really well, especially his crappy strikes and died amazingly on a big boot. He was great jawing to the fans early on and was really good at giving his offense room to breathe. His timing on his cut offs/eating Test's hope spots were really good.

 

Obviously this isn't going to be a GREAT MATCH or anything (it's four minutes long) but everything Boss Man had to do here, I think he did well. I even think he did a very good job of getting stuff in those four minutes effectively.

 

I also saw a nothing two minute Metal Saturn vs Boss Man match from 02 and he was definitely not in as good shape. His punches were still great. His selling of Saturn's punches were great, but he was sluggish down to his gear which was his black swat shirt with khaki pants. After hitting a big boot he raises his hands and shouts "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!" which was pretty awesome.

[Exposer]

Didn't Bossman have a short-lived mini feud with Austin in his last run?

[Matt D]

Big Boss Man vs the Hurricane Metal 02/02/02

 

Now this is a fun sub 3-min match. These things do exist. It's worked very smartly. Tons of shtick from both guys. Hurricane starts out with the handshake and Boss Man takes his hand. They share a thumbs up and Boss Man pulls him in and intimidates him. Hurricane tries for a slam but gets clubbered for his trouble. Boss Man taunts Molly outside. Hurricane tries offense. Boss Man overpowers him. His strikes again look good. Hurricane goes for the chokeslam. Boss Man chokes him instead. Does the "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD" thing again. Ref breaks it. Molly hits a missile dropkick. Boss Man sells it exactly as much as he should, chases Molly around, runs back in. Hurricane briefly takes over, hits a big move or two, including the big body slam, and then Boss Man hits the Boss Man Slam out of nowhere with a huge hook of the leg and that's the match.

 

They managed to set up things early in the match (the bodyslam attempt, Boss Man's taunting of Molly) that paid off later on. It was very believable with Boss Man giving just about as much as he should have for Helms. Again, it's not a great match in the time limitation, BUT if you can come up with a better sub-3 minute big man/little man match I'd love to see it.

[JerryvonKramer]

Was Bossman really as worthless during his run with The Corporation as is being made out here? I remember him being pretty good when he was wearing the black, thin and being mean to Big Show.

[Matt D]

Was Bossman really as worthless during his run with The Corporation as is being made out here? I remember him being pretty good when he was wearing the black, thin and being mean to Big Show.

Is this a meaningfulness thing again?

[JerryvonKramer]

No I just remember him being decent around then. I have no desire to revisit that era for some time and probably wont until I'm done with the 80s and early 90s, but as a fan in 1999 I remember him being good.

[Matt D]

Well I've seen two far more than competent performances albeit in very small doses between 00 and 02 today. One that I didn't like as much but it was, you know, a two minute syndi match.

[ohtani's jacket]

Hart Foundation vs. Twin Towers, Duluth, MN 5/17/89

 

This was your typical BS Hart Foundation match. Bret played face in peril practically the entire match, which I tried telling his fans he liked to do but they wouldn't listen. Anyway, he played FIP, but there as no double teaming from the Twin Towers, no cutting Bret off from his corner, no instances of Anvil distracting the referee or any sort of hope spot before the tag; nothing that you generally associate with FIP tag wrestling, even the WWF version of it. The finish was a count out and Bret made it count by doing his pescado. The Hart Foundation then roughed Slick up a bit and handcuffed him to the ropes. In a brilliant bit of psychology, Bret dropped the keys to the cuffs down his trunks. It's that kind of micro detail that made him such a master storyteller.

 

Twin Tower vs. Demolition, Boston 4/22/89

 

This was really good. Demolition were over like mofos in Boston. Axe played the FIP in this and it was as close to proper FIP wrestling as you generally get in the WWF. They ran through all the staples of double teaming and ref distraction and cut Axe off from his corner. The work itself was pretty good. If you don't like Demolition's clubbing offence you might not feel like coming along for the ride, but I honestly thought this went beyond the blueprint of "hey, these guys are using good structure" into the realm of actually being a good match. It falls apart a wee bit towards the end, but not enough to curb my enthusiasm.

[ohtani's jacket]

The Big Boss Man vs. The Mountie, Green Bay 5/7/91, Montreal 8/16/91, SummerSlam '91 8/26/91

 

Since these guys were both former law enforcement officers, I guess that makes The Mountie the Boss Man's arch enemy, right? Macho Man gives me the hard sell on the manager cam in the first match. I kind of like the manager cam as a novelty. Gives you an idea of how much yapping the managers do during the match. The Montreal match is a decent houseshow match. They do some fairly standard houseshow stuff to pop the crowd. It's in Canada so Rougeau is in civvies rather than the Mountie uniform. The heat for this match is pretty incredible even if the work is unspectacular. The SummerSlam match is disappointing. Boss Man cut the most awesome promo on Prime Time after The Mountie and Jimmy Hart jumped him, but the match fails to deliver on that intensity. Instead of having a proper brawl, they deliver a pretty pedestrian Coliseum Video style match. I was hoping for more from this feud.

[S.L.L.]

 

The Big Boss Man vs. Earthquake (WWF, 10/29/90)

 

At some point in this project, I'm gonna have to look back on the Big Bubba/John Tenta matches of '96, because those were brutally panned at the time, and yet, looking back now, it kinda makes sense that that program would happen. I mean, I doubt WCW brass was sharp enough to think about it that way at the time, but Traylor and Tenta were good dance partners for each other in the WWF, and it kinda makes sense that you would pair them with each other again in order to try and reignite their respective flames at a time when they were starting to get burnt out. It may not have worked in '96, but these two did well by each other earlier in the decade. I always point to their Royal Albert Hall match when people ask me if Tenta ever had any good matches, and while I don't think this was as good, it was enjoyable in it's own right. It's hampered by a finish that brings the match to an end just when Act 3 should have been starting, but this was really smartly laid out up until then. One of the things everybody from my generation seems to remember about Bossman is how quick and agile he was for his size. I don't know that this match is the best example of that, but it's a great example of why people remember that. These are two big boys, and the match starts out by Quake asserting that he is the bigger boy by shoving Boss Man into the corner and flexing (because in wrestling, fat = strong!), so Boss Man has to take the advantage by being quicker, outmaneuvering him and socking him in the jaw when he gets the opportunity. He also manages to slip behind Jimmy Hart in one of my favorite parts of the match, and Jimmy comically reaches behind himself to feel Boss Man's face, much to his dismay. Quake retakes the advantage with his power, hits a nasty headbutt, and slaps on a bearhug, and we get a really cool moment were Bossman manages to fight him off. He hits a few headbutts of his own, bites his nose, and claps his ears to get him to release the hold...but as soon as he does, he falls to his knees, because his lower back has been damaged so much by the hold that there was nothing else keeping him upright. I was really struck by it. It was just such a clever way to sell the effects of a bearhug. It's the sort of thing that anyone could do, but not too many are actually smart enough to do. If nothing else, I come away from this match thinking of Boss Man as a guy who knew his craft. Earthquake starts focusing on the lower back after that. I should note that Boss Man was in the midst of a feud with Bobby Heenan at this point, and when Quake takes charge, Heenan comes down from commentary to "apologize" for his wrong-doings towards Boss Man, giving Quake quite the managerial dream team. We even get Jimmy lending Bobby the megaphone for a little while, which is another neat touch in a match filled with them. Boss Man digs down deep and starts fighting back, busting out the enzuigiri I forgot he hard, and getting Quake tied up in the ropes Andre-style, leading to the Edge-style crossbody to the guy in the ropes that I also had forgotten/didn't realize he did. Heenan interferes, and Boss Man chases him to the back and gets counted out, ending the match just when it should have been kicking into high gear. This might have been a high-end match with a little more time, but even without it, it's a fun way to kick this off, and I'd recommend it to fans of either of these guys.

[ohtani's jacket]

Big Boss Man vs. Jake Roberts, Tokyo 4/13/90

 

On one hand, this may be one of both men's career best matches in the WWF. On the other hand, I may be overrating it because it took place in a different setting. I was all ready to log on here and proclaim how matches like this prove that the WWF style inhibited workers from having great matches and this was a glimpse of what these two might have been capable of if they'd worked for Turner at the time, but thinking about it some more, the character work wasn't that great, it took place outside of WWF storylines and there wasn't the same high spots you get from a typical WWF narrative, so I'd like somebody else to take a look at it and tell me if it was any good.

 

Demolition vs. The Twin Towers, Boston 6/3/89

 

This was the Boston return match after the Twin Towers nearly walked away with the tag belts the last time they were in town. They couldn't quite recapture the magic of the April match, but this was still a good match. Smash played FIP this time and it was perfectly decent. Garvin was the ref here as with all guest refs he made a pain in the ass of himself, but overall the Twin Towers/Demolition dynamic worked well again.