goodhelmet Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Leave him out of the Windham conversation unless there are some cool Big Bubba vs. Windham matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 So, Bossman or Dibiase in WWF? More good matches? More great matches? Better worker? Who has what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gennarelli Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Career wise, DiBiase had a larger and richer body of work, but I will say..In my opinion, Bossman's primary WWF run ('88-'92) had more quality matches than Ted's. Ray gave Hogan some of his best matches. Bossman vs. Dusty, Bossman vs. Hennig...you name it... Bossman was a great heel and a surprisingly good face during his WWF tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I would like to ask someone who has watched Crockett TV more comprehensibly is if we saw glimpses of Bossman's potential in his run there. What he did on the supershows was not inspiring at all and certainly didn't lead me to believe he would have good to great matches with Hogan within a year time frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I love that Bubba v. Ron Garvin match. Will hates it because he's a communist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Their really isn't a lot to take from Crockett. He was a bodyguard, feuded with Dusty, and then went down the card. I enjoyed the Garvin match too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I would rank DiBiase higher, but Boss Man had a deceptively strong WWF run -- as a promo, a worker, a participant in memorable angles and a draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 His WCW run was pretty great too. I haven't watched any of his stuff from his WWF return, I wonder how that is. I remember enjoying his hardcore matches at the time, but I doubt they hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I love that Bubba v. Ron Garvin match. Will hates it because he's a communist I disliked it because it wasn't very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I love that Bubba v. Ron Garvin match. Will hates it because he's a communist I disliked it because it wasn't very good. Sometimes you have a bad opinions. This is one of those times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 We all do. I'll rewatch it again though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'll watch it too. We should have a match of the week club here! Like a book club. Where we all watch an easily accessible match and discuss it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'll watch it too. We should have a match of the week club here! Like a book club. Where we all watch an easily accessible match and discuss it! That's actually a pretty cool idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Set it up Matt!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I love this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Dylan mentioned Windham's ability to "work small" in the thread that begat this one. That is one of the Boss Man's primary strengths. He was a 357-pound badass with a nightstick who, once he turned babyface, was able to legitimately work sympathy against guys like DiBiase and the goddamned Mountie. I'm glad that the entire BBM/Mountie match apparently made the '91 yearbook, because leaving aside the brilliant jail antics I remember it being quite a solid match. Probably the best Mountie match ever, which isn't high praise or anything, but it was good. BBM/Barbarian from the Rumble is probably the best Barb singles match in the company. I really, really like the 3-odd-minute match with Doink which is a virtual squash for Borne with Boss Man getting tied into knots. And incidentally he was an excellent squash-match worker for the company and the time period. It's rare for a guy to improve that rapidly working for the WWF but Traylor did it. He went from never saying a word and never working as a (pushed) babyface to being a very good, underrated interview and a good babyface worker. I haven't seen that Garvin match, but the dude fucking no-sold a wooden chair that Klondike Bill forgot to gimmick. No-sold a taxi door getting slammed on his fingers too, until he got inside. That has to count for something, maybe even enough to make up for fucking up Jim Cornette's knee permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 It's amazing how much he slimmed down from when he started to when he was damn near catching up with Hennig in their WrestleMania match. Has anyone seen the squash match he was in against Tully Blanchard that impressed Dusty so much that he gave him the Big Bubba gimmick and the rest is history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Set it up Matt!!! I'm glad to start a note, and even be in charge of managing suggestions and an order that people get to pick matches for everyone to watch, etc, but there's a slight problem with this as a starting point. Well two. First is that PWO Microscope Match of the Week is a kind of lackluster name. More importantly though, presuming this is the Starrcade 86 Match, the thing doesn't fit the "easily accessible" criteria. It's not online. I can still start a note, but that'll sort of hinder rewatches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 You said a "Match of the Week". Find a youtube match... put it in the multi media forum and I'll give people password access when they ask for it. For entire shows, we aren't in the business of giving people access to entire shows online anyway so we don't draw the attention of the internet police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Pete is 100% right about Bossman being able to make you disregard his size. I'm pretty sure DiBiase uses a bearhug in their MSG match, which sounds completely ridiculous, but somehow worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Matt D - been meaning to ask you for a while: why do you call threads "notes"? I think the Bossman argument is being somewhat overstated here, and is an example of people getting overexcited and carried away with reassessment. Bossman was never pimped as a great worker, Ted was, therefore he has no burden of expectation, therefore if you can think of a handful of good matches and performances that somehow adds up to a case -- and because Ted was not everything he was cracked up to be, he has less of a case. Doesn't seem very convincing to me. Also don't get me wrong, I like Bossman and think he was good as a heel and as a face, but I am not entertaining the idea that he was a better worker than Ted in WWF because that idea is not only wrongheaded but also just wrong. As for Bubba in Crockett, as Chad said, he seemed really green. To the extent it's hard to believe the guy who appears in WWF in 1988 is the same guy, night and day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Matt D - been meaning to ask you for a while: why do you call threads "notes"? I think the Bossman argument is being somewhat overstated here, and is an example of people getting overexcited and carried away with reassessment. Bossman was never pimped as a great worker, Ted was, therefore he has no burden of expectation, therefore if you can think of a handful of good matches and performances that somehow adds up to a case -- and because Ted was not everything he was cracked up to be, he has less of a case. Doesn't seem very convincing to me. Also don't get me wrong, I like Bossman and think he was good as a heel and as a face, but I am not entertaining the idea that he was a better worker than Ted in WWF because that idea is not only wrongheaded but also just wrong. As for Bubba in Crockett, as Chad said, he seemed really green. To the extent it's hard to believe the guy who appears in WWF in 1988 is the same guy, night and day. Bossman has had fans of his work for as long as I've been posting online. Which is a long, long time. What's being overstated? What about what people have said regarding Bossman is wrongheaded in your view? I don't think it's impossible that Dibiase was better in the WWF, but I hardly think it is self evident to the point where the idea that Bossman is better is "just wrong." Career v. Career I would absolutely take Ted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'll watch it too. We should have a match of the week club here! Like a book club. Where we all watch an easily accessible match and discuss it! I suggest you put in only Demolition matches in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Bossman has had fans of his work for as long as I've been posting online. Which is a long, long time. Like I said, past MAYBE the Steiners vs Money Inc in a Cage (quality of that match aside), I've never seen a Dibiase in WWF match pimped more online than Barbarian vs Bossman. As for the spurious Demolition remark, I am not going to invite headache upon myself, thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think it is wrongheaded because it takes form as being the only criterion when assessing a guy's time in a given place. I would prefer a formula along the lines of base talent + form + positioning/ "meaningfulness". What is "meaningfulness"?, well it's there to mediate cases where you might have a very talented guy having good matches who isn't being pushed. It's Bobby Eaton on Saturday Night in the late 90s. Or an even more extreme case might be Buddy Rose doing job matches in WWF. Even if Rose is still a 5/5 for talent and even if he's on good form, his "meaningfulness" rating is a 1 or even a 0 and that's going to hurt the way you look at him. I think Ted's base talent and "meaningfulness" while in WWF are strong enough to overcome the form issue (and it's not like his form was completely terrible or anything). Or in other words, Bossman might have been on career form and might have had a decent push, but considering all three things together I still don't give him a chance of being called a "better worker" because Ted's base talent is just better than Bossman's. I stand by this as a way of rating runs. I would think about footballers in the same way. Fernando Torres might have been crap since 2008 but his base talent is still there and no amount of arguing or reasonably good form can make the Norwich striker Steve Morison a "better footballer" than him. The only way it could happen is that Morison somehow comes out and scores 30+ goals in a season while Torres is on woeful form. And even then, Torres would probably fetch a higher price than Morrson. In the Ted vs. Bossman scenario, it would be unfair to Bossman to say that he's the equivalent of a Steve Morison, but his WWF run also wasn't the equivalent of a 30+goal season while Ted's was also nowhere near close to being "woeful". In the rating system I've just devised, let's say Ted's a 4 talent, 3 for form and a 4 for "meaninfulness". Let's say Bossman is a 2 or a 3 for talent, 4 for form and a 3 for "meaningfulness". My view is that form is not the ONLY thing to consider when all things aren't equal. Between Ted and Bossman all things are not equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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