Wrestlemania 29 Thoughts

[Death From Above]

I watched the 1991 Yearbook last night. Chono/Hashimoto and Atlantis/Blue Panther were my matches of the night.

In fairness, Chono was great before his body went to totally to shit. The last time I went through the early 90's TV I was struck by what a good TV match worker he really was, back in the day.

[El-P]

I watched the 1991 Yearbook last night. Chono/Hashimoto and Atlantis/Blue Panther were my matches of the night.

You're so not playing along. Damn. I'm going back to Nitro 1999.

[Dylan Waco]

Taker eating the GTS and then bouncing off of the ropes and hitting the Tombstone on the way back looked like something someone would make an animated gif of and that we'd all laugh at if it happened in an ROH main event.

Bingo.

 

 

Funny thing is I didn't even realize Punk had "hit" the GTS until I watched the match a second time because the angle was so bad. I'm still not entirely sure if he was supposed to hit or if it was supposed to be a Taker counter.

 

I still thought the worst part of the match was Punk being back up for a punch exchange so quick after the tombstone.

[Dylan Waco]

Also I would note that while I did not like the reversal train at the end of the match at all, I think it's curious that some of the people I've seen offer big time criticisms of Punk v. Taker, absolutely LOVED that Cena v. Punk match from Raw a few weeks back. Now to be fair I think Cena v. Punk was better than Punk v. Taker, but if you want to see your WWE version of video game, spot running, I'd point to that over Punk v. Taker

[evilclown]

Reading through this thread, it's weird to see things like people praising Taker/Punk and bashing HHH/Lesnar, not because it's wrong to see either of those matches as good or bad, but because they really weren't distinct enough to warrant thinking one was meaningfully better than the other. They were basically the same match, as was pretty every other match on the show from Jericho/Fandango onwards..

I don't think you can possibly believe this. What was similar about Lesnar's Gary Albright impression and CM Punk's, well, CM Punk impression? The matches didn't seem to be laid out in a similar way. On the surface there was a glut of finishers, but as a whole those matches didn't really build or finish the same way.

[Childs]

I don't buy that the show fell flat because all three big matches were the same.

 

Taker-Punk pretty clearly did not fall flat, in part because they made the effort to create distinctive moments -- Punk being a wiseass about Taker's mystique, the table spot, the urn nearfall -- instead of just kicking out of four tombstone and five GTS's. If you want to say they sold poorly at times or got too cute with the finisher reversals, I won't argue. But that match did not strike me as mindless finisher-fu.

 

HHH-Lesnar featured a fine on-paper layout. It was your basic physically overmatched guy fights through a terrible beating to save his career. Unfortunately, it was predicated on HHH delivering a performance of which he's incapable. He's compelling neither as a guy standing toe-to-toe with Lesnar nor as a gutsy babyface with an unbreakable connection to the crowd. The failing of that match was not a ridiculous excess of finishers (though I'd have edited out one of the kimura counters) but one guy's delusions of greatness.

 

Rock-Cena was the match that best fits SLL's criticism. They wrestled a formless opening, seemed to agree they were devoid of ideas and then went to the endless finishers, reversals, thefts of the other guy's finisher, etc. The only moment I liked down the stretch was Cena being a d-bag about the people's elbow. Otherwise, it was clearly WWE epic run amok.

 

So yeah, I agree that the show fell flat when it was supposed to climax. I think it was probably a mistake to run those three matches in a row without some short, energetic stuff interspersed. But I didn't see them as three faces of the same problem.

[KrisZ]

The big problem with the final three matches was the placement for sure and the mass amount of Rock/Cena videos killed it. Without those videos you get the 8 person tag between Brock/Trips and Rock/Cena.

 

Also the deal with Rock/Cena was that they were doing their Hogan/Warrior tribute match and the NY crowd wasn't buying it.

[jdw]

Saw this at Casa del Hoback with the following crowd:

 

* 2 - hardcores (Hoback & jdw)

* 1 - former 90s APW trainee

* 3 - long time WWF fans starting in the 80s/90s

* 2 - 9th graders who are fans of the current product

 

So this was very much different from the usually Hoback-Yohe-Williams trio who would watch a bunch of great 70s/80s/90s matches for hours before the PPV, then gripe about why the WWE stuff wasn't as good as the Jumbo-Kerry or Santo-Panther stuff we watched earlier in the day.

 

Overall... the show felt flat for much of it, with on tv it seeming like the crowd largely showed up to see Taker and Rock-Cena. The only thing on the undercard that seemed to get much heat was the Tag Title, and that was short to the point that they didn't really have time for the crowd to not-give-a-shit. The other thing that had heat was Jericho's entrance, but the heat seemed to crap out once Fandango actually started working.

 

Interesting that they cut out all of the promos, backstage stuff and other bullshit. It was just matches and promo pieces. Even with that, they ran short on time and cut the Standard Women's Match Before The Main Event(s).

 

On the matches:

 

* Randy Orton & Sheamus & Big Show vs The Shield

 

Not terribly interesting, seemed to have lost the crowd both in the Stadium and the Hoback living room when it went into Show In Peril. To the point that the Hoback, his friend who trained in APW and I were asking each other, "Who decided when laying this out to have Show In Peril?" rather than Sheamus. I enjoyed Orton getting pinned, as 100% of his performance in the match reminded me who I hate 100% of him as a sports entertainer.

 

 

* Ryback vs Mark Henry

 

About that Ryback monster push...

 

Anyway, dead crowd made what felt like a plodding match more plodding. This may have worked as a main event of SmackDown or Raw with a hotter crowd into the characters. Here... it was 80K fans, of which 75K seemed to want to watch Rock and Taker.

 

 

* Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Big E Langston & Dolph Ziggler

 

Crowd was into it relative to most of the undercard, but it was short and they moved things along. Can't knock it, but it would have been a throwaway at that length on TV let along a PPV.

 

 

Chris Jericho vs Fandango

 

The crowd in Casa del Hoback hated Fandango, with one exception. The hate wasn't heel hate either: it was XPac style "Get The Hell Of My TV" level hate. It didn't seem like the fans in the Stadium cared about him either. This match just seemed to die, despite Jericho busting his ass to Do Stuff in his own sloppy fashion.

 

Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger

 

Del Rio's cross armbreakers were cool, especially his finisher. The match... another one that felt flat. It wasn't flat in a Fandango fashion, but in a "who gives a fuck... can we get to the Big Matches" fashion. Felt more due to Swagger, as Del Rio was connecting on some level with the crowd. Honestly... Dutch added nothing to Swagger in this setting. He tried hard to insult everyone under the sun in the opening, though he forgot to say something along like lines of "speaking jive" or "speaking that hip hop nonsense". But the reaction to that was lighter than one would think. Once the match started, he didn't really do enough. Kind of strange/stupid. Anyway... eh.

 

The card at this point was generally dying. Can't say that's great for the WWE given who was in the final three matches:

 

Taker - 20+ year vet, rarely works

Punk - current "newish" top star

Trip - near 20 year vet, rarely works, generally phased himself out

Brock - Champ for the first time 10+ years ago , works limited

Cena - current top star, on top for close to a decade

Rock - guest star from the past generation

 

I get that it's Mania, and this stuff has been driving the box office at Mani for the past several shows and they've made a ton of money off that. But 2/6 in the three main events being of the Current Generation, one of them a true anchor (though he's draw the past two years due to Rock) and the other... the crowd reaction made it nakedly obvious that he wasn't close to true anchor level for a show like this.

 

 

* Undertaker vs CM Punk

 

Good match. If there was a negative to it, it's that no one in the crowd thought Punk had a chance of winning. Staggering lack of heat for his stuff on Taker. They did get a pop for the Last Ride + Urn Shot, but I don't think it was close to the best near-fall pops that Shawn and Trip got on Taker. But other than that, it was very clear that the fans just didn't take Punk being on a level with Taker at Mania with The Streak on the Line. It's doubtful that if Punk beat Taker reasonably clean + injury angle at say Surviors that folks would even think Punk was at the level to put Taker at risk of losing The Streak... but you have to wonder if something like that might have helped.

 

Feel bad for it on that level. Not sure if Punk really wanted to be Streak Fodder, but he did work hard once the bell rung... and Taker seems to fire up for his One Big Match A Year to have a spectacle. It's funny in this streak of Shawn-Shawn-Trip-Trip-Punk that the vast majority of the things in the five matches that I didn't like were due to Shawn, Trip and Punk... and it's Taker whose performance tend to surprise and please me in the "I don't know how his broken down body does this shit" fashion.

 

Anyway... good match, they hit their marks well enough. Just lacking people thinking Punk had a chance.

 

* Bangs The Boss’ Daughter vs Brock Lesnar

 

It's nice to be reminded why I hate Bangs. The only good thing about this clusterfuck was that people didn't give a shit about it until the end. It's staggering that Trip would book himself (or allow himself to be booked into) going over Brock in this match.

 

 

* The Rock vs John Cena

 

Solid enough on some level, but last year's felt better, had more crowd heat, and more doubt. They tried... but there really wasn't an extra gear they could kick it into, either in terms of work or in terms of a storyline. I did like how they played off last year. I don't care for just obvious My Turn, Your Turn work. It's a broken record, but this pretty much needed a Cena heel turn to take it beyond last year's match. Probably also needed Cena to cap it by calling out Taker after the match, saying Taker had been dodging putting The Streak up against him for years, and the only way to get the match was to force the issue. What he just did to Rock was to force it.

 

Or some such nonsense. Which wouldn't have been quite the finish the fans in the building wanted, but given them a double Holy Shit: first Cena turning in the match, then calling out Taker to demand The Streak Match at the next Mania.

 

John

[Corona]

Full thoughts later, but every single mention of The Streak (and there were approximately 7,000 of them) served as a reminder that Punk had no chance. Awful, counter-productive commentary.

[Ricky Jackson]

So Meltzer is reporting Rock has gone home and there is chaos backstage this afternoon. Anybody know anything more?

[Matt D]

Who cares? This is a godsend. Rock doing the "Thank you" 20 minute goodbye speech would have been the worst.

[Ricky Jackson]

The proposed year long build to a Rock/Brock match didn't sound very appealing.

[KrisZ]

--HHH's arm got caught underneath him on the table spot last night and he thought he broke his arm. He got X-rays and the arm wasn't broken. Brock Lesnar was out on his feet by a knee from HHH for about five minutes during the match last night. Shawn Michaels suffered a broken nose. So much for retirement. C.M. Punk's leg was in bad shape from that elbow onto the table. He was also getting X-rays last night and they said he needs an MRI.

--Tons of backstage interviews, celebrity stuff, the 8 man tag, America the Beautiful and more were cut off the show because they were so tight on time and wanted to give the top three matches a full chance to play out.

--There is absolute panic at Raw at this moment. The show was scheduled to build to a segment where Brock Lesnar beat up Rock to set up next year's WrestleMania main event. Rock is not there. The word at the building is he went home. Vince McMahon, the writers and producers are in the process of redoing the show, evidently believing the angle has been nixed. Nobody knows any details as to what happened past that. The belief right now is Rock is not appearing and hopefully if that changes we'll get an update.

 

--There is a second major angle tonight to set up the main feud going forward and the Extreme Rules main event involving John Cena's next title defense. It is one of the things that has been planned for some time and was actually scheduled before Mania.

[KrisZ]

And now this

 

Dwayne Johnson isn't on TV tonight because he suffered an injury, the nature of which we don't know the severity of at press time in last night's match.

Did he suffer a throat injury from calling spots

[flyonthewall2983]

Is that from Meltzer?

[Cox]

How could they have cut America the Beautiful for time when it would have opened the show?

[Childs]

Because they mapped it out in the morning and realized everything didn't fit.

[Dylan Waco]

And now this

 

Dwayne Johnson isn't on TV tonight because he suffered an injury, the nature of which we don't know the severity of at press time in last night's match.

Did he suffer a throat injury from calling spots

 

He suffered a wellness violation

[Dylan Waco]

Update from Dave via a thread at The Board

 

Definitely not a creative issue. Everything they were planning tonight was right from his mouth and laid out by him to creative, not the other way around. He was the one who told Brock the angle and Brock was more than fine with it.

 

Don't know the severity of the injury. Don't want to speculate more until I hear more.

 

Cena thing taken down over a miscommunication on my part, will put it back up. Still happening as best I know.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

The Rock and Ziggler are the main reasons why I watch the WWE these days. I hope he stays but if it's true that he walked partly out because Ziggler was supposed to cash in last night after Rock won .. Well, that's class from the Rock.

 

Hopefully as he leaves, he'll shout out "That's what I do!" Yeah, I'm using that Mark Henry quote in real life now:)

[Guest Andrews]

Highlight was easily Punk vs Undertaker.

 

Rock and Cena had a better match than last year I thought - in particular the repeat and tease of last years finish was brilliant.

 

HHH vs Brock fell flat.

 

Overall there was a lack of "fun" atmosphere with no backstage happenings, no fun at the commentary booth... WM has got perhaps a little too polished and formal in recent years.

[Dylan Waco]

The Rock and Ziggler are the main reasons why I watch the WWE these days. I hope he stays but if it's true that he walked partly out because Ziggler was supposed to cash in last night after Rock won .. Well, that's class from the Rock.

There is zero chance that is true

[Laney]

I just got back home from my WrestleMania weekend trip. Overall I thought that WrestleMania was fun, but it didn't have the feeling of a major show. It seemed like booking wise they were trying to play everything on the safe side and it wasn't what the crowd wanted. Not having Ziggler cash in was a huge mistake and it just pissed off a crowd that wasn't that great to begin with. It seemed like Undertaker/Punk was the only match that had a great reaction. I didn't think HHH/Lesnar was that bad of a match, but the crowd was dead after Taker/Punk and the placement of this match killed it.

 

I thought that Cena/Rock was the worst match on the card. Probably 90% of the match consisted of signature moves. It just seemed like they were trying too hard to have an epic match and it just completely failed.

[rovert]

Anyone pick up on this?

 

[KrisZ]

4 minutes ago

 

@TheRock In the middle of last nights Wrestlemania match I tore my abdomen & adductor muscles off the bone. Just part of the job. But as we know..