80s catchup thread

[WingedEagle]

Mid-South 4.3

Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (5/3/85)

 

This is from Houston with Paul Boesch on commentary. We've got to know him well on NWA Classics. This one seems like it is going to go long, somehow has long match written all over it. I've yet to be convinced by Taylor so let's see how he does against my boy here.

 

Ten minutes gone and not a lot has happened so far.

 

Second ten minutes, more action, back and forth chops. Big butterfly from Flair. Takes it outside. Posts him.

 

Third ten minutes. Taylor has Flair in a sleeper and I'm the one losing consciousness around the thirty minute mark. This has been a snoozefest. Taylor hits a suplex. Flair dumps him.

 

Ric, when is business going to pick up? Please! Side headlock takeover by him now. Backslide. Flair chop. Slammed off the top. Taylor misses a fist drop and hurts his hand on the canvas. Flying cross body by Taylor. Flair flip. Bails to the outside. One thing people don't talk about enough with the Flair flip is how many options it gives Ric. This match is boring the shit out of me so let me go into those options:

 

Option 1: run over to the next turnbuckle for another move from top (which can connect or he can be slammed off)

 

Option 2: run on the apron and drop down to outside and bail.

 

Option 3: just the big bump over the turnbuckle to the outside

 

Option 4: eat a clothesline running across apron

 

It's not just a spot that pops the crowd, it's one that presents options for him as a worker and which gives you a lot of neat transitions. People talk about a "deeper appreciation" of the art form. Let me tell you that it's not quibbling over what workrate means, or any other pseudo-intellectual bollocks, it's THIS.

 

Anyway, rant over. Similar finish to the Kerry match where Taylor had his leg on the rope but Flair gets the pin. This is one of the most tedious Flair matches in existence. Not at all recommended.

 

C-

 

 

 

Parv, very clear here why you didn't like this match. Very interested why it came up so short with their first encounter as I didn't find it a huge departure from that one.

 

I was absolutely blown by the Taylor series (and am no fan of Taylor's), to the point that if someone pointed to these 3 matches as their case for Flair as GOAT, while not necessarily agreeing, I couldn't exactly say they were out of their minds. The first match had better character work with Flair playing the sportsman before snapping, and then working lots of great little things as the pissed off heel world champion. We also had Flair selling the leg there in a nice contrast, and a better conclusion. That said, thought this match was also a vintage "little things" outing from the champ, jawing with the ref, making sure that every hammerlock and headlock was not a wasted resthold but rather an opportunity to put over the challenger and sell the effects of such holds. Then you had Flair work the arm only for Taylor to pay it back down the stretch. I found those matches a series of brilliant performances by Flair to carry a perfectly average opponent to compelling, MOTYC quality title bouts with enough variation from match to match that if they were presented on TV week to week it'd have been considered a tour de force.

 

Well that's quite a long-winded way to inquire about the comparison, isn't it?

[JerryvonKramer]

I think it's fair to say that I take those things so much for granted from Ric that they barely registered. Maybe it was me who wasn't Fair to Flair.

 

The first match was your typical Flair vs any local guy match, which is a baseline ****, but for whatever reason this one felt like it had no direction and drifted for long portions. There was very little sense of excitement and it's not just because I know Taylor can't win, it's because it was devoid of anything really happening. The first match had a more coherent narrative and structure, and more focus to the action, it also had more action.

[goc]

And now you know why some people thought the Flair/Taylor matches were rated too highly in the Mid-South poll because that match inexplicably finished at #27

[WingedEagle]

I think it's fair to say that I take those things so much for granted from Ric that they barely registered. Maybe it was me who wasn't Fair to Flair.

 

The first match was your typical Flair vs any local guy match, which is a baseline ****, but for whatever reason this one felt like it had no direction and drifted for long portions. There was very little sense of excitement and it's not just because I know Taylor can't win, it's because it was devoid of anything really happening. The first match had a more coherent narrative and structure, and more focus to the action, it also had more action.

 

Fair enough. Perhaps I was doing backflips over it because I hadn't watched much Flair in a while, but I thought the world these, to the point that the first felt like a potential top 20 match for Flair. Curious if I love it as much the next time I check it out, but have to imagine the series will rise & fall together for me.

[JerryvonKramer]

There is an expectation thing too going on though. Saw a match between Rene Goulet and B. Brian Blair on a Cap Centre card recently that blew me and Kelly away because we were going in expecting any nothing opener you've ever seen and they put on a good match,

 

Flair is the opposite end of the spectrum, so I guess we can overreact when things fall short. It's why the series was called Fair to Flair, because expectations and taking him for granted means he gets graded on a curve like no one else does.

[WingedEagle]

No disagreement there. Expectations matter tremendously and I generally think people significantly underrate them. Last night I watched the Danielson/Aries 80 minute 2/3 falls match from 2004. Had been putting it off for weeks because it was eighty freaking minutes. Sure enough, I was blown away and thought the match flew by. Just loved it, which I didn't think would be remotely possible. Had Danielson not suffered an apparent concussion midway through the sky was the limit.

[JerryvonKramer]

Mid-South 4.4

Kerry Von Erich vs. Ric Flair (5/4/85)

 

Won't go in detail on this one. The lack of commentary and intimate camera give this one a sense of grittiness that is pretty awesome. When I talk about authenticity, it's stuff like this. TNA in 2005 de facto at about a 10 to 1 disadvantage for that fact alone.

 

The action here is crisp, these two had good chemistry, everything connects well. The crowd are into it. Kerry works really hard. And as a result Flair takes more of these matches than is sometimes the case -- again, it's not the formula big man match.

 

Starts out a little slow with the typical NWA title match matwork. Kerry works the arm, then Flair controls until he gets a sleeper on. Transitions to leg and figure four. Kerry comeback and gets claw. That same finish they've been using with Flair getting the pin while Kerry had the foot on the rope.

 

It's the definition of routine, but it was a good routine.

 

***

 

Mid-South 4.5

Rock N Roll Express vs. Dirty White Boys (5/11/85)

 

Good bit of stalling to start. Gibson gives both the Dirty White Boys a PM atomic drop. Denton takes over on Morton. Anthony in with a fist drop and stomps. Tags in and out. A lot of antagonising of Gibson and tying the ref up. We get a hot tag and the bell goes for ... Is it a DQ?

 

Vaguely disappointed by this. I like to see a a moving through of the gears in the heat stretches, but the DWBs never really progressed past scrappy punching in their offense. I'm not a huge schtick guy, and there was a lot of it early on. This one was just a bit too rudimentary for me. Interested to know what Tim Cooke likes about it though. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, wouldn't be the first time.

 

**1/2

 

Mid-South 4.6

Dirty White Boys vs. Terry Daniels & Bill Dundee (5/11/85)

 

Is this the same Terry Daniels of Slaughter's private fame?

 

These arenas in Watts country are pretty cool. Dirty White Boy's tights are hideous. Bill Dundee's are too. Some ghastly attire on display.

 

The face in peril section on Daniels in this match is much more crunchy and satisfying than the Rock n Rolls one. Slams have more impact. Great sense of the gears cranking up. Schtick better integrated into the match. When Dundee comes in, and among other things, atomic drops Denton on a chair.

 

But then Anthony regains advantage again and they worked a second FIP sequence on Dundee. Dirty White Boy does have good character work, also has a neat little 360 rebounding back from the turnbuckle bump, sort of the reverse of Dibiase's trademark bump.

 

Dundee gets sleeper in as a hope spot but Denton cuts him off. Denton is a big guy isn't he. I love this ring, it's so bangy and crashy.

 

Enjoyable match.

 

***1/2

 

Mid-South 4.7

Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair (6/1/85)

 

Here we go again. And once again, this has length written all over it. Obligatory babyface armwork from Taylor to start. Headlock, headlock takeover. They are setting up for at least 30 here, I can tell.

 

A lot of headlock. Flair suplexes Taylor but he doesn't let go. I can only imagine the laugh a minute a Taylor vs. Backlund match would be. More hot headlock action now. Fucking hell. Fifteen minutes gone. Don't tell me this goes an hour, please.

 

Flair finally breaks free and gives Talyor one of his stiffest chops. And again. That one was from me! Thanks Ric. Jesus. Taylor comes back and Flair begs off. Another big chop. Taylor fights back. This is more like it!

 

All of a sudden this match got good. Flair is pissed now. With every chop these guys are getting more and more heated. Now this is gonna sound strange but it almost makes the fifteen fucking minutes of headlock drudgery worth it because these chops feel earned -- there's those sprouts I talk about sometimes. It's not like your Low Ki or AJ Styles going in for the full chop fest within the first minute, this match has built to this point and now it's boiling over. Do kinda wish Taylor has done something other than a long ass headlock to fill the time, but you get the point. They were working through the sprouts, not just bee lining to the delights of the plate. I respect the Puritan work ethic.

 

Oh Flair is flowing now. Jaws at the ref. Snap mare. Knee drop. Fuck yes. Grabs the arm. You can hear that smack on the skin. Uses the hair to sync him down -- there's your "little stuff" Flair dick heel move. All of a sudden this match got real good. Uses the ropes for leverage. Slyly grabs the tights. Jaws constantly. This is your dirtiest player in the game right here.

 

Stops to shout at a fan. And now the chops again. This is awesome. Taylor is really fired up. Sleeper! Man Taylor is laying this shots in now. Suplex. Flair cries out in pain. I'll admit it, they've hooked me in here. Taylor goes for a splash and Flair gets the knees up. Four massive rights by Taylor sends Flair down. This has got to be the best performance of Taylor's career right here.

 

Goes in for the Irish whip. Flair won't go. Sends him for the ride anyway. Flair flip over and to the outside. Options, remember. Flair guillotines Taylor on the top rope. Massive Flair chop! Back slide sequence into a two count. Crowd are wild.

 

Flair goes for a pin with two legs on the ropes. Two only. Five big chops by Taylor. Back suplex by Flair. Figure four time. Taylor sells this so hard he's basically doing sit ups in it. Some nearfalls. Big chop sends Taylor down. But Taylor comes back with his own figure four. Flair has lost it now, we are seeing the psycho come out. The adrenaline forces him not to stay own, desperation forces him to go up top. Slammed off. Backs up. Flying crossbody by Taylor. Fair play he's worked so hard in this match.

 

Flair dumps Taylor now. Big vertical suplex. And he's strutting. Elbow drop. Cover gets two. And again. And again. He shouts at the ref. Ha ha. Two big chops. He grabs Taylor by both cheeks as if to say "who the fuck do you think you are!" Another round of chop suey explodes now. Flair gets the pin with no small degree of desperation after 39 minutes of gruelling action. Massive "bull shit" chant from crowd. Ha ha ha.

 

Absolutely phenomenal match that would make my top 100. The first ten minutes are boring, but once you work through them the pay off of everything else makes it so much worth it. Taylor's career match and just another night of greatness for the Nature Boy. Any fan who was in the crowd that night saw a match they'd remember for the rest of their life. Absolutely one to watch if you've not seen this one. Taylor works out of his skin and Flair basically drags him up to his level. It's the sort of thing the greatest wrestler of all time can do with an average opponent.

 

****3/4

 

Putting a pot of tea on to brew. Three R n R matches against different opponents when I return! Hyped.

[JerryvonKramer]

Mid-South 4.8

Rock N Roll Express vs. Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death (6/19/85)

 

I wish Ted wouldn't have kept shaving his beard off in the mid-80s. So much cooler with the beard.

 

He goes to work on Morton here. I maintain that DiBiase has become a severely underrated worker by some, just so good at everything he does on offense, bumping, selling, timing, feeding. I see him being dismissed very lightly for reasons I'm not entirely sure of. For me he's one of the world class workers of his day, but then you all knew that. But certainly I don't see why -- as an example -- his partner here, Williams would ever make someone's list over him. I also think see a guy like Morton, for as good as he was at what he did, routinely put over Ted, and I don't see how DiBiase wasn't a better a all round worker factoring in everything. Morton was a specialist, great at one thing. Anyway, just saying my bit. Everyone knows I think Ted was fantastic. Some guys have a hard on for shoot style workers, some for Luchadores, some for trash workers. Well my hard on for top 80s US heels who were consummate pros will always be permanent. This wrestling here is my first love. I've told you my truth, tell me yours.

 

Morton has a flurry but finds himself cornered. Doc in. But Gibson and Morton rally and the heels bail. Doc levels Gibson with an elbow. Ted in. Elbow smash. Patent end first drop. Snap mare. Reverse chin lock. Gibson elbows out, just a hope spot. Knee lift by Ted. Doc in. Elbow drop. Doc controls with a headlock. Joel Watts is that on commentary? Whoever it is, he is on fucking speed here. Calm down son.

 

Ted loads the glove and nails Gibson. Morton rallies for a pin. But the ref is out. Doc adjusts the arm brace and nails the clothesline for the win.

 

Not as hot as the last encounter between these two, but still fun,

 

***

 

Mid-South 4.9

Rock N Roll Express vs. Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts (6/24/85)

 

Freebirds in Mid-South here. Hayes is there, of course. Watts never liked letting him wrestle. Roberts is getting old here. Still Rock n Rolls vs. Freebirds, two big teams of the 80s.

 

Looks like Gibson is on FIP duty tonight as Gordy gives him two big back suplexes. Buddy in. Jaw breaker. Elbow. Headbutt. Morton in to agitate. Gibson gets the tag. Big bump by Roberts into the corner. Another big dramatic bump. You can see why they always said he was the worker of the group. He's definitely the one I've seen least of. That's my lack of WCCW watching. Did see him in the GCW run though.

 

Gordy drops Morton on the top rope. Now he throws him over the top rope. Gibson goes over to protect him from the lurking Hayes. Top rope scraping by Roberts. Sunset flip by Morton. Big slam by Gordy. Ouch, what was that an inverted tombstone by Gordy?! Damn near broke Gibson's neck. That'll do.

 

Not a classic, but a good solid old-fashioned southern tag, and there's nothing wrong with that. Seems like *** is almost like an R n R baseline against competent opponents.

 

***

 

Mid-South 4.10

Rock N Roll Express vs. Jake Roberts & The Barbarian (6/28/85)

 

We're getting a very good look at the R n Rs here and a very good look also at Watts's rogues gallery at this time. This is in Houston.

 

Barbarian is John Nord aka The Berzerker, not the Face of Fear. Boesch puts Jake over as a wily veteran and calls him "slithering". Makes me wonder how experienced Jake was at this time. Peewee Anderson looks ridiculously weedy here. What a little shrimp!

 

We settle into an FIP sequence on Morton. Well, come on, what else? Jake works a hammerlock. Oh no, not a FIP ... Gibson in. Works a side headlock. This one seems like it might be going for a while if they are working holds early.

 

This is being worked in a very very undercard-y way. Shades of Jose Luis Rivera here. And with all the excitement. Jake has been real dullsville so far. He's responsible for one of the worst matches I've ever seen (vs Rude, WM4), he owes me a good performance at some point I feel.

 

Gorilla press by Barbarian on Morton. This one has lost me.

 

Because the R n Rs work their formula so rigidly, and never deviate outside of that, it's really up to the heels to be dynamic and interesting delivering the offense. Morton can bump around as much as he can, but he can't create magic if the opponents aren't up to the task of doing cool shit to him. And I have to say I didn't think Jake or Nord were up to it here. After seeing them vs. Ted and Doc, Freebirds, DWB, they were a distant and pale fourth.

 

If you're interested:

 

1. DiBiase and Doc

2. Freebirds

3. Dirty White Boys

4. Jake and Barbarian

 

In that order.

 

This one also went way way too long for what it was.

 

*1/2

[JerryvonKramer]

Okay, so here's the deal, there's no fucking way I'm sitting through all those trios matches on the Lucha set, but I don't want to sleep on it completely, so I'm pulling a Steven Graham and bee-lining to the top 20. Sickens me to have to do this and skip on the sprouts, but I think it's this or nothing at this stage. Will start and 20 and go down. Texas will probably get the same deal.

 

I've already reviewed the twenty match, that was the 9/30/83 trios match I gave ***1/2 to.

 

#19. Sangre Chicana vs. Satanico (5/26/89)

 

After some early exchanges featuring some sweet little punched from Chicana we settle into an arm bar and for reasons I don't entirely understand the ref raises his arm. What the fuck? He submitted to an arm bar? Looking at it again, I guess the damage came from the stomach breaker and it was more of an abdominal stretch type move on the floor. I'll never get used to these sudden first falls.

 

Chicana starts swinging wildly to ward off Satanico's punches. Fair play, Satanico throws a nice punch.

 

Oh what happened? Fucking hell, pause, rewind. That was another fall! Satanic with a hard slam and some sort of leglock to even things up at 1-1. Why do they even bother with the first two falls? Always like that they are, just sudden. About ten minutes gone.

 

I don't think I'll ever psychologically readjust to accept two falls inside of ten minutes. Like these guys are nowhere near being down and out, so why do they take the falls? It's a nonsense to me. Just make the thing one fall.

 

One thing I do like in this match is the fierceness with which both guys snap down on a snapmare or basic bodyslam. They go into the crowd and brawl. It's fair to say that both men can throw a punch.

 

Things seem to grind to a halt a bit as they are in the crowd. Double count out. There we are then.

 

I didn't see a lot here to make me excited. This has Will and Schneider written all over it, being a punch fest, and sure enough they did love it, or at least Phil did. In the interests of balance. I will also link Graham Crackers's eulogy to it in which he calls it one of the best matches of 1989.

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21127-disc-8/?p=5573427

 

It didn't do a lot for me. If I'm honest I prefer a lot of the bloodier and more violent and more wild Abby-Terry Funk brawls from 1980 that our friend uploaded, and they capped out about ***1\2, they all finished in double count outs too. Falls just too sudden in the first half, and I did not see the beauty in the finish that G. Crackers did. Not really one for me this. I have to be honest with my ratings. I'm a man wandering around a modern art gallery who doesn't understand what he's looking at most of the time.

 

**1/2

 

#18 was Cota vs. Rocca (2/3/84), a match I dug and gave **** to.

 

#17 Solar, Ultraman and Super Astro vs. Sergio El Hersmo, Belo Greco and Rudy

Reyna (2/26/84)

 

This is the match I tapped out on when I originally stopped watching the Lucha set. A lot of comedy stuff early on. Lost in translation.

 

Actually, fuck this, these guys aren't in consideration for GWE and are responsible for me stopping the set dead in my tracks last time. Let's move on. It's a legendary match apparently. Maybe another day. Sorry OJ.

 

#16. was Atlantis vs. Satanico (1984), which I gave **** to. My buddy Chad gave that one the full *****. I have little memory of it to be honest.

 

#15. MS-1 and Maskare vs. El Dandy and El Satanico (8/11/89)

 

Heels look pretty swank in their matching gear. Dandy has a shaved head here. First fall, as ever, comes before I've had a chance to think. Ridiculous double team spot for a submission.

 

Second fall has a pretty impressive splash from the top rope by MS-1 a long way across the ring on Dandy.

 

I find it hard to get into the rhythm of these sub-20-minute 2/3 falls matches. The falls make the action feel so ephemeral.

 

Some sick vampire action now as Dandy holds one of the Rudos for Satanico quite literally to bite at him and suck his blood. Total Will spot. Dandy goes on to kick the other one in the face, pretty sloppy kick. Satanico beats on MS-1 who is a mess by this point. But then the Rudos start coming back until Maskare kicks Dandy clean in the nuts. Ref doesn't see. But then they hold Satanico to go for the same but he evades for Maskare to get the low blow himself. Oh maybe the ref did see cause it looks like a DQ finish.

 

Eh, this ain't my scene guys. I did like the payback and beating on MS-1 by Satanico, but these 18-minute 2/3 falls matches are too short and disruptive for my tempo. It's not even about adjusting a mindset, I just fundamentally don't like the structure. It'd be like someone who can't get into Southern tags trying to get into the Rock n Rolls.

 

***

 

That'll do it for now, I've watched a lot of wrestling today. Very close to the point of just saying I won't rank any Lucha guys. Does mean I'll lose Cota and Casas, but it just feels plain unfair at this point. I have no real way of rating them with any semblance of discernment and I'd rather not be some sort of critical thug. Some guys aren't going to have any Japanese workers at all, so I think I could justify doing the same with these.

 

Will give it one more session maybe. I've tried and tried and I don't want any more beef from the One Man Punch crew.

[soup23]

.

#16. was Atlantis vs. Satanico (1984), which I gave **** to. My buddy Chad gave that one the full *****. I have little memory of it to be honest.

 

 

I still like this match a lot but I have watched probably four times since my initial rating and now would be in the ****1/2 range. It didn't even make my top 100 matches because it has dropped ever so slightly. I still think it is a masterful performance by Satanico but do think Atlantis could have shown some more fire in spots.

[Tim Cooke]

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30500-rock-n-roll-express-vs-dirty-white-boys-mid-south-051185/

 

This is Paul's review that I completely agree with. The difference between this and the 3/27/88 MX vs. Fantastics is so close (heat, moves, selling) that I would say it's a 50/50 coin toss between which one I like more. Basically everything I want in a southern tag. Heat was Korakuen Hall 80's All Japan Women level, super solid work (Morton working on the rana and arm drag in one sequence is state of the art in 1985), and there is a satisfying finish.

[JerryvonKramer]

Housekeeping Mid-South d4

 

****3/4

Terry Taylor vs. Ric Flair (6/1/85)

 

***3/4

Rock N Roll Express vs. Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death (5/3/85)

 

***1/2

Kerry Von Erich vs. Ric Flair (4/28/85)

Dirty White Boys vs. Terry Daniels & Bill Dundee (5/11/85)

 

***

Rock N Roll Express vs. Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death (6/19/85)

Kerry Von Erich vs. Ric Flair (5/4/85)

Rock N Roll Express vs. Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts (6/24/85)

 

**1/2

Rock N Roll Express vs. Dirty White Boys (5/11/85)

 

**

Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (5/3/85)

 

*1/2

Rock N Roll Express vs. Jake Roberts & The Barbarian (6/28/85)

[Graham Crackers]

I do still think that's among the best double count out finishes ever but that's because I usually hate that finish. I thought this brawling was good enough to save the finish.

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 4.1

Dutch Mantell, Steve O & The Fabulous Ones vs. Adrian Street, Jesse Barr & The Sheepherders (Stipulations Match) (3/28/83)

 

Was very hard to get into this with the fuzziness of the footage and general chaos. Seemed like a mess to me. Loathe to give it a rating, but I've watched it three times now trying to get into this disc and that is more than enough.

 

*

 

Cornette's hysterical "there's got to be a loophole!" freak out after the match, however, is pretty incredible.

 

Memphis 4.2

Bill Dundee vs. Terry Taylor (4/4/83)

 

Didn't think much of this and one of the more disappointing Dundee performances I can remember seeing. Only goes ten minutes and has a poor finish. Still amazes me how Flair got that match out of Taylor.

 

**1/2

 

Memphis 4.3

Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (4/4/83)

 

One thing that has come out of this Memphis footage is that their tag matches were incredibly strong and benefitted greatly from sticking so closely to the Southern formula. I've suffered a lot of Moondogs matches for Titans and this was more enjoyable than any of them. Obviously this is after Spot has replaced King, but I don't think it's a personnel thing, but a formula thing. The formula works.

 

***1/2

 

Memphis 4.4

Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) (5/2/83)

 

A smidge better than last match because the Fabs got more time on offense and we got blood. These two teams had good chemistry.

 

***3/4

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 4.5

Fabulous Ones vs. Bobby Eaton & Duke Myers (Hair vs. Titles) (5/16/83)

 

Very fun to see a pre-Midnights Eaton and Cornette against a pre-Midnights Lane. Myers bleeds a lot here and they pack a lot of action into ten minutes. These Fabs tags are all really solid. I wonder if the strictures of the formula limit how good they can be,, maybe I'd want maybe five or six minutes longer to push the rating up and get more nuanced stories going on in the matches, but I'd still recommend every single one of these tags.

 

***3/4

 

Memphis 4.6

Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (6/6/83)

 

A lot of the work on this Memphis footage so far has been solid without being spectacular, and what I've been missing is that stone cold classic that would threaten my top 100 matches list. This match has a big reputation and so I was hoping this would be it.

 

I watched the match four times. Dundee's punches are exceptional in this match and his offense carries a lot of the action. He has a great sense of intensity and urgency. In fact, I thought Dundee's performance overall is fantastic in this one. Lawler does his thing too and his selling of the punches is excellent; the juice job on his eye is nasty too. I've been trying to put my finger on what is missing for me, which is why I watched it four times.

 

This might sound strange to some, but I think it feels a bit short. I don't know if it's because it is clipped or because Russell is a bit off with his timings (he calls 20 mins, and I make it more like 16 or 17), or if it's because the finish comes a little abruptly, but it lacked a sense of epicness to me. But then I think of Dibiase vs. Duggan or Magnum vs. Tully, which are both shorter, but those both have a much stronger sense of pay off as well as straight up blood and guts violence. So yeah, I guess I want it either to be more blood and guts or more epic. This is in the Chi-Town Rumble sort of time range and it it's not on that sort of level for me. Even though what they do is excellent. I also would have liked to have seen a little more long-term selling from both guys. Dundee hurts his leg, but then seems to forget about that when he's going for those for awesome chop blocks during the finish. I also wonder why the eye injury didn't play into the story of the match more. If you break the match down it feels like about four disconnected segments or mini-stories, which are all pretty great in their own right, but I think there's some slight disjointedness when you put them all together. Those four mini-stories:

 

1. Bulldogs and the counter to the bulldog

2. Action outside with tremendous Dundee punches

3. Lawler on top

4. The finish with Dundee going for the chop blocks and Lawler hitting the piledriver.

 

It's not even that the transitions between these four sequences are bad, they aren't, it's just that they don't really add up to a big story within the terms of the match itself. I feel like in all the big classic matches I'd put in my top 100, from NWA, All Japan, etc., there are lots of things that are set up early in the match that are paid off later, but this doesn't really have that cohesion I'd want from a classic.

 

So ... It's not the five-star or even the 4.75 match I'm looking for from Lawler, but it's still probably the best match I've seen out of Memphis so far

 

****1/2

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 4.7

Fabulous Ones vs. Moondogs (6/13/83)

 

Not really a match since the bout is thrown out after about two minutes, but this is a batshit insane brawl, just mayhem and carnage. I could do without the whistle blowing though from Jimmy Hart, it's super annoying.

 

This is just mental.

 

Memphis 4.8

Rock N Roll Express & Bobby Eaton vs. The Moondogs & Jimmy Hart (7/25/83)

 

Retroactively quite weird to see Eaton tag with the Rock n Rolls here.

 

This was effectively worked double heat with Morton then Eaton as FIPs. Not a lot to write home about, some nice bumps by the faces, but the beatdown on Eaton post-match is fun.

 

**

 

Memphis 4.9

Bill Dundee vs. Assassin #1 (9/25/83)

 

So Dundee is back after two months? He didn't leave town for long. The Assassin looks huge here, but of course this is Memphis so it's not the real Assassin, Jody Hamilton but instead Dusty Rip Off Merchant, Dirty Rhodes.

 

This is a pretty fun match with Dundee nailing Assassin with a chain several times and then Assassin going all out for revenge for the rest of the match. And I thought he looked pretty good on top, pretty agile for a big man, etc. Poor finish wherein the other Assassin comes in and just attacks Bill for the DQ loss. Good fun. Post-match Lawler saves Dundee from a beatdown.

 

**1/2

 

Memphis 4.10

Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol vs. Jesse Ventura & Stan Hansen (9/25/83)

 

What a weird team here! Hansen and Ventura?! I didn't even know Jesse worked in Memphis.

 

This goes as you'd imagine to begin with: Hansen kicks the crap out of Lawler. Ventura, of course, works a bear hug on Idol, but it doesn't go on too long. Then this just degenerates into a post-match brawl. Uber fun to see all these guys in the same match, but it's not exactly helping anyone's GWE case.

 

**

 

Memphis 4.11

Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Texas Bullrope Match) (10/3/83)

 

It's a damn shame that it was Ventura who got the run with Lawler and Idol who got Hansen.

 

This kinda reminded me of the Lex Luger match from Starrcade 90. Which is to say that Hansen had his formulas just like anyone else. And just like that match this is okay without being blow away.

 

***1/2

 

Memphis 4.12

Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Bunkhouse Match) (10/10/83)

 

Ref Paul Morton is bald and I thought it was Joe Higuchi at first and wondered if he'd come all the way from Japan just to ref this match.

 

It thought this was very disappointing, the match is thrown out too early and never really gets going and while we do get the fun of seeing Hansen lariat Eddie Marlin, it's not really much of a match. Feels a bit of a cop out. Hansen is suspended which is just as well because an All Japan tour was about to start.

 

I see these Austin Idol matches as a slight knock on Hansen only insomuch as I think Flair or Funk could have gotten better matches out of the same opponent. This seemed like a pretty lazy Hansen-by-numbers feud for me and of the runs outside of Japan people point to -- Puerto Rico, WWF, WCW, and this -- by far the weakest run for me.

 

**

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 4.13

Koko Ware vs. Tommy Rogers (10/24/83)

 

Someone said recently that Koko Ware was brutal when he worked squash matches recently. Well Jesus Christ, he's only some straight up All Japan shit in this match because he throws brainbusters, neck breakers, butterfly suplexes, backdrop suplexes and various other high end throws for fun here. I mean, like, full on OTT Steiner-style suplex machine.

 

I don't know how good this match is really, but the spectacle of Koko just annihilating Rogers will all the huge bombs he can throw is amazingly good fun. If you haven't seen this one, and if you grew up watching the Birdman job on WWF TV every week, I'd recommend giving this one a quick watch just for the mind-fuck of seeing him work as Yoshiaki Yatsu here.

 

***1/2

 

Memphis 4.14

Bill Dundee vs. Tommy Rogers (11/7/83)

 

Rogers has always been a fave of mine, as has Dundee so looking forward to this one.

 

Like Dory vs. Lawler, this is another awesome match that seemed to get totally shafted in the final voting for this set. Both matches, in my book, should have been pushing for top 20, at least based on first four discs. This is a tremendously stiff, all-action, violent match between two great workers. Dundee's punches are something else aren't they. Hot match.

 

****

 

Memphis 4.15

Dutch Mantel, Koko Ware, Bobby Eaton & Jaguar vs. The Grapplers & Bruise Brothers (12/10/83)

 

The promo before the match here gives you a good idea of why Johnny Sorrow loves the gurning goon Porkchop Cash. Jaguar appears to be a Tiger Mask knock off. Koko is under a mask and called "Stagger Lee", even their secret identities were knock off, ha ha.

 

There's some dissension in the ranks of the first family here and Jimmy Hart does some fire fighting. The seeds for the Surivor Series were sown right here.

 

This was actually a really good match, a lot of action. Porkchop Cash stood out with some over the top bumping and fun heel work from the apron. The Grapplers can both throw a suplex or two, Koko was an effective FIP. And I have to give it to Ken Wayne, he captured Tiger Mask's botching superbly ... It's in the same "fun" range as a lot of these Memphis matches have been.

 

***1/2

[goc]

Memphis 4.9

Bill Dundee vs. Assassin #1 (9/25/83)

 

So Dundee is back after two months? He didn't leave town for long.

The loser leaves town match was 6/6 so it was 3 months. Standard loser leaves for Memphis was 90 days, whenever they mentioned how long it was for.

[JerryvonKramer]

Tonight, an hour of NJ, an hour of Mid-South and if I don't fall asleep first, an hour of Memphis. First hour:

 

New Japan 5.1

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu (8/4/83)

 

Some typical NJ matwork to start, nothing intricate but they work with a lot of struggle. Feels like wrestling made in Inoki's image: two guys in black trunks laying on the match... but to be fair it's not too boring.

 

They build up to bigger moves down the finishing stretch. But I still can't really get into the Scorpion as Choshu's gamechanger, just because it never really seems like one. I've struggled to get into this feud much. This was about as good as their other encounters, but a good bit below the more action-packed and exciting match they had on 7/7/83.

 

***3/4

 

New Japan 5.2

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Riki Choshu (9/21/83)

 

I really could have done without the early matwork in this one, bored the crap out of me here; less of a sense of struggle than last time. I mean yes, they are manoeuvring for position but I don't really care about that. It's meaningless manoeuvring. None of this stuff ever really plays into the match, it's just eating up 8-10 minutes and leading nowhere every time out. Pretty tiresome like the fifth like round.

 

But then business really feels like it picks up when they bust out some strikes and Choshu locks in the Scorpion. Crowd is bonkers. Fujinami does some really effective selling in the Scorpion, good emoting and desperation from him to reach the ropes.

 

Fujinami has a cool way of using drop kicks to keep Choshu at bay in these matches and it is a good basic strategy. He controls with the figure-four, which they stay in for a bit too long, before the action spills outside for yet another count out.

 

This was the least of these matches for me so far in a series that continues to be pretty disappointing. Just waiting for Yatsu and friends to show up now in order to turn up the workrate a couple of notches. This stuff has paled next to the AJ 85-6 stuff so far. Less Inoki-style please, and more Choshu kicking ass and Fujinami running the ropes like a madman. The early matwork in this sucked my soul.

 

I will say though that Choshu and his cronies do a great job in the post-match here as they rough up Fujinami in some strangely US-style booking. Killer Khan is there among others. I wish the action in the match was as hot as the action in the angle. It's like you have this super hot crowd, super hot feud, and then they get in the ring and trade arm bars for ten minutes. Just makes no sense to me. Where was the hatred, intensity and violence we saw in this post-match actually in the match itself? I think it is a fair knock. My suspicion -- and in fairness I felt this way watching the AJPW run too, where I wasn't enamoured by his singles matches -- is that Choshu needs his friends around to carry some of the workload.

 

***1/2

 

New Japan 5.3

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Killer Khan (11/3/83)

 

This is much more like it as Fujinami is fired up, aggressive, intense and full of hate for Khan, who returns the favour by duly using his size to dominate the up and coming ace.

 

This has a great bigger guy vs. smaller guy dynamic as well as a great heel vs. babyface dynamic. Honestly, this is more up my street than the Choshu stuff. I guess I like my wrestling baroque, like a Caravaggio painting. Heavy contrasts of darkness and light. Bold and obvious imagery. Dramatic scenes. Honestly, if I want subtlety then pro wrestling probably isn't the medium I want it in. And let us not confuse subtlety for depth.

 

Here, Khan's general oafishness enhances the sense of danger for our hero. When he comes off the top with a knee drop, when he hits his awkward backbreakers and such suplexes: it feels genuinely precarious for Fujinami. Fairplay to Khan too, he takes a superplex, and works damn hard in this match. Fujinami is uber-spirited.

 

Dug this a lot. If I wanted a match to try to get someone into Fujinami, I'd far more readily recommend them this than the two previous Choshu bouts. Great stuff. And actually another fine showing for Khan, he has a good dozen or so really memorable matches to his name.

 

****

[JerryvonKramer]

Mid-South 5.1

Rock N Roll Express vs. Midnight Express (6/30/85)

 

No commentary, which is always great for a Rock n Rolls match. Can feel like you are there. Morton vs. Flair can give you that feeling.

 

Kind of a textbook example of how to do a Southern tag while building in great character work and developing a match gradually towards a hot finish. The Midnights have some very funny schtick. Condrey does some comedy stuff early, later there's a great bit where Eaton tried to prove to the ref he didn't pull Gibson's hair by appealing to Cornette -- ha ha, like he's an impartial judge. The R n Rs switch things up here, as Gibson played FIP with Morton looking for the tag. Gibson is very good in the role, but the match is made by Eaton's awesome offense. Great spot where Gibson hits a superplex for the hot tag and Eaton is selling that back as if he's been crippled and can't walk. These guys just knew how to work tag team matches. Midnights the consummate heel team, Rock n Rolls the consummate face team.

 

I think this might be their best match in Mid-South. Great one.

 

****1/2

 

Mid-South 5.2

Ted DiBiase vs. Terry Taylor (7/3/85)

 

There's some pre-match here, Taylor wants a shot at the North American title, but Dibiase suggests that he faces him instead for a the right to face the champ, who at that time was The Nightmare. Also, I do not think I've seen this match before, which is pretty rare when it comes to a Ted match and me.

 

This is awesomely (and surprisingly) stiff and worked with some intensity. Taylor is very aggressive in this match and, of course, DiBiase makes him look like a million bucks while he's on top. The sequence on the arm is good. When Ted takes over, he hits some of his trademark fistdrops, and works dirty and heelish. Nice touch when he misses an elbow and re-injures the arm Taylor was working, although it doesn't really play into the end game, which instead is built around the figure-four.

 

Excellent TV bout, which demonstrates the quality of MSW in 1985.

 

***3/4

 

I probably need to add Taylor as a "memorable opponent" for Ted, which does actually increase his overall score by 1. Also, between this and the Flair match, I can see why some were talking about Taylor as being underrated. Although that point seems to have died down these days.

 

Mid-South 5.3

Ric Flair vs. Wahoo McDaniel (7/12/85)

 

I reviewed this match here: here

 

According to Pete, the date is wrong and it should be 7/26/85. If you haven't seen either, both are on NWA Classics and they kick all kinds of ass.

 

****1/2

 

Mid-South 5.4

Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death vs. Jake Roberts & The Barbarian (7/14/85)

 

I think the Williams and DiBiase team has come to be underrated and I'd certainly take them over Doc and Gordy. I kinda wish we'd got to see Ted and Doc in AJPW together, just to see what Ted could be like leading the team there instead of being Hansen's little buddy. The Jake / Barbarian team are the babyfaces by the way. Fantastics come out and challenge the champs before the match.

 

Pretty cool in this match as we get to see JvK hero, Ted, go up against Matt D hero John Nord, which is kind of a strange match up, and their little sequence together is a good demonstration of why Ted was such a brilliant heel, as he feeds the beast before wimping off and tagging out. Doc's character work in this one is also notable, because he has a lot to say from the apron and is very animated. Barbarian is pretty effective as a stand tall powerhouse babyface too.

 

This is great once it settles down into the Jake FIP sequence, which is a role he's surprisingly pretty good at. Ted barks and taunts Jake, the total heel at all times. He works at a methodical pace, letting every move register the full impact. There's also that heelish mixture of nastiness and slight desperation to everything he does. This is how to work kids . Jake bleeds like a stuffed pig here, we have juice. And I liked the way Doc and Ted took turns to attack the cut, and the way that they made sure that Jake had just enough hope spots before the hot tag to keep the crowd stoked. And then when the tag does come they beat the tar out of Barbarian with stereo fistdrops until Jake comes in wielding a boot for the DQ. So heated and intense this. Pressure cooker atmosphere.

 

I honestly love the hell out of this style of wrestling. Blood and guts and hatred, stiffness, sound psychology and storytelling, hot crowd, and really good work with everyone playing their roles well. Jake was very good as the FIP, they worked around Barbarian's limitations to perfection, Doc the enforcer and Ted the mastermind antagonist. Awesome stuff here. We need some more Mid-South love in general. The quality is just so high. All promotions are not created equal. In terms of in-ring work, after Crockett and All Japan, I think I'd have to have Mid-South next. In terms of the total package, taking in the TV and booking and everything, I might take Mid-South tops.

 

****

 

Mid-South 5.5

Hacksaw Duggan & Dick Murdoch vs. Kamala & Kareem Muhammad (7/14/85)

 

Two very fat black men take on known KKK sympathiser Dick Murdoch and Mr. USA himself, Jim Duggan. This has fun written all over it. Seemingly worked with Texas Tornado rules as no tags.

 

This is just balls out action, brawling and mayhem. Duggan has got that caveman wildness and electricity and the crowd are just mental. Murdoch throws some sweet punches and Kamala is all wobble legs and cartoon selling, but less erratic than he often is. Seems more focused in his offense.

 

Awesome brawl. Tulsa was one lucky city in 1985.

 

***3/4

[JerryvonKramer]

I've decided to retire the letter ratings for this thread. I use star ratings on my shows and in all my other reviews. So I've gone through the entire thread and changed all letter ratings to stars. That was an hour well spent. FML.

[JerryvonKramer]

Housekeeping Memphis d4

 

****1/2

Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) (6/6/83)

 

****

Bill Dundee vs. Tommy Rogers (11/7/83)

 

***3/4

Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) (5/2/83)

Fabulous Ones vs. Bobby Eaton & Duke Myers (Hair vs. Titles) (5/16/83)

 

***1/2

Koko Ware vs. Tommy Rogers (10/24/83)

Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Texas Bullrope Match) (10/3/83)

Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (4/4/83)

Dutch Mantel, Koko Ware, Bobby Eaton & Jaguar vs. The Grapplers & Bruise Brothers (12/10/83)

 

**1/2

Bill Dundee vs. Assassin #1 (9/25/83)

Bill Dundee vs. Terry Taylor (4/4/83)

 

**

Rock N Roll Express & Bobby Eaton vs. The Moondogs & Jimmy Hart (7/25/83)

Jerry Lawler & Austin Idol vs. Jesse Ventura & Stan Hansen (9/25/83)

Austin Idol vs. Stan Hansen (Bunkhouse Match) (10/10/83)

 

*

Dutch Mantell, Steve O & The Fabulous Ones vs. Adrian Street, Jesse Barr & The Sheepherders (Stipulations Match) (3/28/83)

 

DUD / not a match

Fabulous Ones vs. Moondogs (6/13/83)

 

----

 

Still waiting for that Lawler match that breaks the 4.5 line. Memphis has a lot of fun stuff but in terms of in-ring quality it is on the lower end of the 80s sets for me so far -- I think even AWA had a higher average baseline. I suspect it is a promotion with better TV than actual matches. That said, Lawler vs. Savage is around the corner and I'm excited for that. Also, that Hansen run is super-duper disappointing.

[WingedEagle]

I've decided to retire the letter ratings for this thread. I use star ratings on my shows and in all my other reviews. So I've gone through the entire thread and changed all letter ratings to stars. That was an hour well spent. FML.

 

Ha much appreciated. No more translation required!

[WingedEagle]

Still waiting for that Lawler match that breaks the 4.5 line. Memphis has a lot of fun stuff but in terms of in-ring quality it is on the lower end of the 80s sets for me so far -- I think even AWA had a higher average baseline. I suspect it is a promotion with better TV than actual matches. That said, Lawler vs. Savage is around the corner and I'm excited for that. Also, that Hansen run is super-duper disappointing.

 

That was my big problem with Memphis. Felt like a hell of a TV run but not something that held up well in comparison with territories churning out regular classics. Midsouth's '85 wipes the floor with the decade in Memphis in my eyes. Hope you enjoy the Savage stuff. Never been as high on him as others but didn't think it was in the same league as Lawler's feuds with Dundee, Funk, Flair, Idol, Bock, Kerry, etc.

[Outsider]

I remember seeing this VHS in K-Mart when I was about 6 or 7 and just walking around the store with it until my mom would take it away from me when it was time to check out! Never did i see it on the blue light special. But K - mart always had good selection of apter mags and other mags! Anyway does anyone know what is on this tape?