80s catchup thread

[victory]

I remember seeing this VHS in K-Mart when I was about 6 or 7 and just walking around the store with it until my mom would take it away from me when it was time to check out! Never did i see it on the blue light special. But K - mart always had good selection of apter mags and other mags! Anyway does anyone know what is on this tape?

 

 

 

1970s Terry Boulder vs. The Outlaw

06/25/84 The Road Warriors vs. Austin Idol & Jerry Lawler

06/84 The Rock-n-Roll Express vs. Lanny Poffo & Randy Savage

07/84 Keith Eric, Robert Reed, Mad Dog, & Tiger Mask (Wayne) vs. Ox Baker, Rick Rude, The Japanese Assassin, & Jim Niedhart

[Grimmas]

 

Still waiting for that Lawler match that breaks the 4.5 line. Memphis has a lot of fun stuff but in terms of in-ring quality it is on the lower end of the 80s sets for me so far -- I think even AWA had a higher average baseline. I suspect it is a promotion with better TV than actual matches. That said, Lawler vs. Savage is around the corner and I'm excited for that. Also, that Hansen run is super-duper disappointing.

 

That was my big problem with Memphis. Felt like a hell of a TV run but not something that held up well in comparison with territories churning out regular classics. Midsouth's '85 wipes the floor with the decade in Memphis in my eyes. Hope you enjoy the Savage stuff. Never been as high on him as others but didn't think it was in the same league as Lawler's feuds with Dundee, Funk, Flair, Idol, Bock, Kerry, etc.

 

I think if we had all the Mid South Coliseum stuff, that would be a different story. At least for the main events.

[shoe]

 

 

 

 

Still waiting for that Lawler match that breaks the 4.5 line. Memphis has a lot of fun stuff but in terms of in-ring quality it is on the lower end of the 80s sets for me so far -- I think even AWA had a higher average baseline. I suspect it is a promotion with better TV than actual matches. That said, Lawler vs. Savage is around the corner and I'm excited for that. Also, that Hansen run is super-duper disappointing.

That was my big problem with Memphis. Felt like a hell of a TV run but not something that held up well in comparison with territories churning out regular classics. Midsouth's '85 wipes the floor with the decade in Memphis in my eyes. Hope you enjoy the Savage stuff. Never been as high on him as others but didn't think it was in the same league as Lawler's feuds with Dundee, Funk, Flair, Idol, Bock, Kerry, etc.

I think if we had all the Mid South Coliseum stuff, that would be a different story. At least for the main events.

That was the exact same thing I told Parv.

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 5.1

Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (1/9/84)

 

Wild brawl with a lot of different things being used as weapons. This has been a good feud between these two teams. Not super high end but an enjoyable way to spend eight minutes or so.

 

***

 

Memphis 5.2

Jimmy Valiant vs. The Assassin (Hair vs. Mask) (4/2/84)

 

This is Hercules by the way. Huh look at that a "genuine" Assassin in Memphis. And honestly, this might be his career singles match. This is so much better than a Boogie Woogie Man vs Herc match has any right to be. Assassin bumps all over the shop, gets some good offense in. Crowd hot and well worked. Paul Jones is here too!

 

***1/2

 

Memphis 5.3

Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (4/9/84)

 

I know it's a cliche to complain about stalling in Memphis, but this one legit takes about five minutes to get going and then they lay on the mat for the next five. Takes an age to get going. But once it does, there are some sweet punch exchanges. I don't see people talk about Savage as a great puncher much, but he really lays in the jabs here.

 

I was pretty disappointed by this match. It's almost just too simplistic. The early going was super slow, but then when they do get going the match never really gets beyond punches. You could call it a taste thing, but where I can get fired up by watching Flair and Wahoo slap the shit out of each other, I find it much harder to get excited by punches and that is all this match is. There are a lot of Randy Savage matches I prefer to this one, any of his ones with Flair, most of the 1988 Dibiase ones, all of his greatest hits with Steamboat, Warrior et al.

 

It's coming around to the time when I need to think about a rating and making a call on Lawler for the GWE. And really, what I'm missing here are GREAT matches. This one is in the "memorable" category, and he is likely going to perfect 10 that, but these opponents are coming and going and where are the classics? Will told me that one reason Flair had an unfair advantage over Lawler is that he had more opportunities to work great opponents while Lawler was working scrubs. Okay, but Randy Savage? He's not a scrub is he and this match really ought to be a bit better than this. I sound like I'm running down Lawler here, I'm not, he's good at what he does. But I'm really struggling to see the #1 GWE case running through this stuff.

 

***1/2

 

Memphis 5.4

Eddie Gilbert & Tommy Rich vs. Pretty Young Things (4/12/84)

 

The Pretty Young Things are Koko Ware and one of the original members of the Midnight Express, Norvell Austin. This was a pretty long match and so much of it saw Rich sitting in a nerve hold applied by Austin. Pretty dull stuff, I thought, despite how well the babyfaces sold for Ware and Austin. Snooze fest.

 

*1/2

[JerryvonKramer]

New Japan 5.4

Tatsumi Fujinami & Akira Maeda vs. Riki Choshu & Higo Hamaguchi (12/2/83)

 

Ah, Choshu's buddies are coming in to the matches now. I'm hoping business is about to pick up. Three of the four are wearing black tights here, I bet Kent Walton is happy he's not calling this one. We get a backdrop suplex on the outside within the first minute. It's weird isn't it, how Choshu upped the action in his tags but not in his singles matches.

 

Great early heat sequence by Choshu and Hamaguchi focused on Fujinami's neck which he injured taking that back suplex on the outside. Hamaguchi uses some cool basic offense like a shoulder breaker and they control with chinlocks, and elbow drops. It's an effective FIP section. Choshu just seems so much more willing to bust out his bombs and work FAST in a tag setting. And it's so much more enjoyable from where I'm sitting. Which is to say that I don't really want to watch Choshu working basic leg holds on Fujinami, I'd much rather see him ripping the joint up and dropping him on his head as he does throughout this match.

 

When Maeda comes in, he slows this match down and things become more mat orientated. You can kind of tell they are setting up to go long during the Maeda - Hamaguchi portion. But not too much lying around in fairness. Fujinami is really working with intensity here. It's like he's possessed and is on a one-man mission to destroy Choshu and his minions. He's fantastic in the switch over to Hamaguchi being the one to be worked over. His character work is actually better than I've given him credit for, he's a dynamic hero. Choshu does some neat little touches of heel character work here too. Pointing at Fujinami on the apron. Using the rope for leverage and then pretending he was going for a tag when the ref checks it. And then holding on until Hamaguchi can get a leg drop in. Pretty great and subtle heel work.

 

This is the longer Japanese tag structure where all four guys are worked over in turn. I'm a fan of that structure, because it creates four different dynamics through the match. I thought Hamaguchi was impressive here and carried his end of things great. Maeda was better as a FIP than when he had to deliver offense, felt he took the pep out of the match too often -- it's the sort of thing that people slaughter Dory Funk Jr for in the 1980s. But super hot finishing stretch with big bombs and excitement. The match drags for short stretches in the middle, but never long enough for me to get bored. Also, I honestly think this feels like it kicks the feud up a notch or two in terms of heat and hatred. Choshu is getting more cocky, Fujinami is getting more pissed off. And the work is getting faster and bigger as a result. That makes me happy. Really good match.

 

****1/2

 

New Japan 5.5

Tatsumi Fujinami, Akira Maeda & Kengo Kimura vs. Riki Choshu, Yoshiaki Yatsu & Animal Hamaguchi (12/8/83)

 

Hello Yatsu, I've missed you. Kimura is here to play too. This should be fun. Four guys in black tights in this one, Walton would not be happy! Yatsu's involvement seems to turn the pace up again and now Choshu is working as fast as he would in All Japan. I'm genuinely a bit puzzled by this contrast between him in tags and him in singles. He runs the ropes like a crazed demon in this match. Where was this Choshu back in April?

 

Some awesome triple teaming here from Ishin Gundan. What a great stable eh. Yatsu is sporting a little goatee and is as kickass as ever. He also works ... A million dollar dream! That is a cobra clutch, random! They just beat the tar out of Kimura and Maeda here. Just awesome tags in and out with Choshu hitting bombs, Hamaguchi dropping those sweet elbows and Yatsu hitting knee drops and swinging neckbreakers and multiple suplex variations. This is everything I hoped it would be.

 

Million miles an hour, bombs galore, super stoked crowd, I mean fuck yes Choshu and Yatsu are in the building baby. This is a spotfest for sure, but remember this is 1983 not 2006 with a crowd shouting This is Awesome. It's got real heat, real hatred, some brilliant workers involved, and some super cool triple teams. And it really does feel like business has picked up in NJPW. And I honestly think Yatsu does something to light a firecracker under Choshu's arse cos the contrast in his work when he is and isn't around is huge.

 

****1/2

 

New Japan 5.6

Antonio Inoki, Akira Maeda & Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs. Riki Choshu, Yoshiaki Yatsu & Animal Hamaguchi, (2/9/84)

 

Things must be getting serious now if Inoki has inserted himself into proceedings. Honestly Ishin Gundan are just so fucking cool aren't they, like Dangerous Alliance swank heel cool. The sort of thing that smart fans have always worshipped. What I really want is Choshu, Saito, Yatsu, Hamaguchi and Killer Khan all in tuxes walking down the aisle. Maybe ol red pants Kobayashi could wear a red tux. Imagine how awesome that visual of the group would be.

 

Speaking of cool visuals, Fujiwara gets colour early here after his head bandage comes off, and Choshu and co are only happy to attack the cut. Absolutely loved it when Choshu had Inki in the scorpion and Yatsu and Hamachi we're taking turns elbow dropping him and stomping him on the head.

 

The post-match brawl is as fired up and ass-kicking as I've ever seen Inoki look. This stuff is just awesome. Fujinami and Maeda turn up in their red training gear. Fujiwara just looks so bad ass with his cut up face. The heels bail. That stand off is the stuff of legend. Amazing stuff.

 

As for the match, not quite as boom boom boom as the last match, but some really hot stuff and Inoki actually selling and being exciting, which is something in itself. I dug the beatdown on Fujiwara's cut. And the post-match stuff is great.

 

****

[JerryvonKramer]

Mid-South 5.6

 

Dick Murdoch vs. The Nightmare (7/14/85)

 

The Nightmare is Randy Colley of Moondogs fame. His North American title run in 1985 here is one of the odder booking decisions of Bill Watts. He does work this gimmick really well though and, honestly, you'd never know he was one of the Moondogs.

 

Big performance from Murdoch in this match. This is some cartoon wrestling right here, everything he does is big and he sells huge for Colley to get over the idea of him as a legit threat. I thought Colley was pretty good too, especially with the big wobbly selling of Murdoch's punches in the finish. There's one cool spot where Murdoch winds up his right hand for a punch and the ref catches it, and he clocks Nightmare with with the left instead. Ha. Pretty hot match and a good example of what Murdoch could do with a lesser worker.

 

***1/2

 

Mid-South 5.7

 

Ted Dibiase vs. Jake Roberts (7/22/85)

 

Still no beard on Ted. He had a beard in 83-4 but lost it in 85 for some reason. Jake is in the Kobayashi-style red pants still. Ton of stalling from Ted at the start of this one. Crowd is hot for Jake. And here is a good example of two guys who know how to work a crowd. Ted is a perfect heel, bailing, teasing, stoking the flames of that crowd. Jake is a perfect babyface milking the heat. This is the difference between being over and knowing what to do with that overness. Two of the best in the business at that here, it's one reason why both are big stars still remembered by many fans to this day.

 

The way Ted is all cowardice and tentativeness at the start of this match and then all violence and intensity when he's on top and then all cockiness and arrogance when Jake is down is another reason why so many fans believe he's one of the greatest heels of all time. This is how to work heel. And I can't name more than ten workers who did it better than is on display in this match. His fist drops are awesome too. Just absolutely loved the heat sequence in this match. Jake is underrated at selling a beatdown, and I love that Bill Watts believed in getting heat on the heel as much as he did. The crowd chanting "DDT" gets louder and louder as they build this. And when Jake hits a jawbreaker Ted sells it like a pro.

 

Just an awesome ABC of how to work a pro wrestling match right here. The basics, the fundamentals, just how to work babyface, how to work heel. You can give me a dozen of your 00s indies guys and they don't know how to work like this. You can talk about context or whatever, but I don't care. This is the shit right here. An incredibly over babyface, a heel who is all the things a heel should be (cowardly, sneaky, vicious, arrogant), an awesome heat sequence and a well-timed comeback to send a tamping hot crowd into orbit. Just an awesome display of pro wrestling fundamentals. Anyone who doesn't like their Wrestlemania 6 match should just watch this instead. Smokes any of their WWF encounters, including the 89 MSG one. Ted at the peak of his powers as a heel.

 

****1/2

 

Mid-South 5.8

 

Ted Dibiase vs. Butch Reed (7/25/85)

 

Ted gets on the mic before the match and says he should be the number one contender to Flair's title. Reed is meant to wrestle Tom Pritchard but they throw him out of the ring to have a match between them instead.

 

In the last match we saw DiBiase administer a beatdown on Jake before succumbing to a comeback. Here, we get Ted the pinball bumper and seller. When I talk about him as a super worker, and one of the best workers of the 1980s, it's stuff like this I have in mind. He makes Reed look like a world beater in this match, while also making sure he gets over the idea of himself as a world class wrestler. And considering this was a match to take on Flair, it is the perfect narrative to tell.

 

It's not just that Ted throws himself all over the ring to make Reed look great, it's the feeding. I've talked about this before, but outside of Flair and maybe Tully, there aren't that many guys who are so good at feeding a babyface. Bump. Up again for a clothesline. Bump. Rinse repeat. This is one of those things they truly fucking suck at in the modern WWE. They don't know how to feed and it drives me nuts. Anyway, another good match. Not as great as the Jake match, but for a TV bout designed to prime Reed to take on Flair it was as good as it could have been.

 

***3/4

[JerryvonKramer]

Memphis 5.5

Randy Savage vs. Austin Idol (5/7/84)

 

Idol really was Lawler's number #2 at this point huh. Hogan haters note, he kicks out of the top rope elbow in the first minute here. Ha ha.

 

Honestly, I thought this was just better than the Lawler match. More action, but not just that, a much better and more spirited performance from Savage who not only looked awesome kicking the crap out of Idol, but also made Idol look great by bumping huge for him. Idol himself isn't bad either, but this really is the Savage show. Very good match that shows what a good worker Savage was here in 1984 and it actually retroactively makes the Lawler match look worse for it.

 

***3/4

 

Memphis 5.6

Randy Savage vs. Austin Idol (5/14/84)

 

This is worked at an even faster pace than the last one, more wild and more brawl-orientated. Savage once again looks phenomenal here. So quick and agile, and a strange mixture of both wildness and focus / coordination. Great punches once again also. This had less substance than the last bout.

 

***

 

Memphis 5.7

Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere) (5/18/84)

 

Here are the PYTs again. This is an absolutely awesome brawl. And one of the best match I've seen out of Memphis so far. Work is super violent and intense throughout. Both babyfaces are great at taking punishment and the heels are great at dishing it out. Koko in particular is just a beast in this match. This is a proper hardcore match, they go all over the arena, up on the stage, over to the back. It's almost like watching RAW in 1998 or something. Didn't see any kendo sticks though. I don't really understand the finish, which appears to make no sense at all, but this brawl is so good that it scarcely matters. Who'd have thought Koko was such an offensive powerhouse?

 

****1/2

 

Memphis 5.8

The Fabulous Ones vs. Pretty Young Things (6/25/84)

 

Exhibit A in my idea that babyface offense is often a waste of time. Once the PYTs take over, business picks up. Fans of Demolition should go out of their way to watch these PYT matches so they can see what clobbering double teams can look like when done well. Koko is just a ball of fire in these matches. He seems to do the lion's share of the work, with Austin more as a kind of Dennis Condrey figure. This was another enjoyable tag.

 

***1/2

[JerryvonKramer]

Time for some serious watching today.

 

 

 

 

 

New Japan 5.7

Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi (3/9/84)

 

If Ishin Gundan were the Dangerous Alliance, Red Pants was kinda like their Bobby Eaton wasn't he. I think he's really underrated and no one talks about him. This was a sprint bombfest and a lot of fun, crunchy suplexes, and crisp execution. Sort of wrestling I could watch all day. Which bodes well.

 

***1/2

 

New Japan 5.8

Tatsumi Fujinami, Seiji Sakaguchi & Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs. Riki Choshu, Yoshiaki Yatsu & Higo Hamaguchi (3/22/84)

 

Inoki is sneak attacked and ambushed on his way to the ring, which is absolutely hilarious because the weird party music and "gay parade" vibe him and the babyfaces had coming out here was too much. So glad the heels came in and wrecked it!

 

You can see why they called this whole feud "revolutionary", it's just so awesome, and actually very very US style in terms of the booking and angle-driven storytelling, even if the basis of the feud is uniquely Japanese.

 

Choshu, Yatsu and Hamaguchi stand in the middle of the ring with some other stable members as the medics attend to Inoki and someone gets on the mic. It appears that Inoki's old mate from the 1970s, Sakaguchi is going to sub for him. The chap on the mic seems to stay on it for the rest of the match, wonder who he was and what he was saying.

 

Take note Demolition fans, if you want to see the meaning of a team beatdown watch Choshu and friends here. Fujiwara gets beaten to fuck here by Choshu's army. Spike piledriver by Choshu and Yatsu. This is so out of control that I'm thinking of giving every participant in it +1 ability to work brawls.

 

I just want to talk again, as if I haven't already on this board, about Yatsu's offense, I mean if he isn't the best damn bomb thrower in history, I don't know who is. He does a scoop powerslam at one point that seems to magically float across the ring. Also has a good stretch of playing heel-in-peril during this and really really well.

 

The crowd is so hot here it's unreal. Yatsu is just such a great worker, he's basically what Kurt Angle could have been. He will also likely not get his due in GWE because I've noticed a general drift in the voter base towards 90s/00s types over these (basically better) 80s workers from when wrestling was basically better. Real crowds, real heat, real workers. Anyway, another terrific match from a feud I'm loving the hell out of. Fujiwara bleeds for Japan yet again.

 

****

New Japan 5.9

5-on-5 Gauntlet (4/19/84)

 

Here we go. Get ready. Crowd is just mental here. This would be footage to show anyone who says that Japanese crowds just sat on their hands. If you don't know, the rules here are that the winner stays on in a series of one on one matches.

 

Representing Ishin Gundan we have: 1. Kobayashi, 2. Teranishi, 3. Yatsu, 4. Hamaguchi, 5. Choshu

Representing The Chin of Inoki we have: 1. Fujinami, 2. Takada, 3. Kimura, 4. Fujiwara, 5. Inoki

 

Let us pause for a moment to analyse the squad selection here. I am guessing Saito could not compete or wasn't around for some reason? Terenashi has to be seen as a reserve call up, and I'd see him as a the weak link for Choshu going into this. Takada probably the weak link for the faces. Both teams have chosen to start with a "striker", but Fujinami surely has Kobayashi outgunned. Choshu has reserved his "ace in his hole", Yatsu, for the middle. And both teams saved their grizzled bruisers -- Hamaguchi and Fujiwara -- for the four spot and their leaders to end. Looking at it, I'd make the heels very slight favourites, but it's quite an even contest on paper.

 

1. Fujinami vs. Kobayashi

 

Hot start to this and it is a fitting start because the crowd is just pumped beyond belief. Fujinami makes short work of Kobayashi and points one finger in the air as if to say "one down". He really is a great babyface and I think has grown into his role as the 1b to Inoki's 1a during the course of this footage. NJ has a bit more of the WWF-style razzmatazz than AJ, and they were absolutely killing it on this feud.

 

2. Fujinami vs. Teranishi

 

Fujinami is fired up and there's a vague feeling of rabbit-in-the-headlights about Teranishi. Fujinami's all like "come on and bring it bitch"! Terenashi focuses on slowing Fujinami down and works the HAND and wrist, Jim Breaks Special on the way? Terenashi actually uses headbutts to the hand and wrist here. You have to give him points for focus and innovation. Headbutts to the wrist! I mean ha ha! Teranishi is giving Fujinami more than he bargained for in this one. The gauntlet is gruelling!

 

Drop gutbuster by Terenashi. Scorpion by Fujinami! And that'll do. Crowd mental. I am marking. And Fujinami is still selling that long-term damage on his hand. Terenashi has done a job here, left a lasting impression on one of Inoki's key players, even if he couldn't finish him off.

 

3. Fujinami vs. Yatsu

 

Fuck yes, come on. I don't think I've been as pumped for a wrestling match as much as this since ... Honestly I couldn't say. But they've drawn me into this.

 

Yatsu straight after the injured hand. Well I mean this guy was an Olympian. Fujinami straight in for the scorpion again. Piledriver on the outside. Yatsu back after that hand. Posts it. Drop kicks Fujinami on the apron and he takes a flat back bump from there to the outside. Holy shit! Second one he gets his leg caught in the rope and Yatsu is not above heeling it up here. And yes, he went for the cheap count out. Ha ha.

 

Some perfect storytelling here, by the way, the hero already having had two matches get screwed by the heel who is happy to take a cheap win than let him have a fair chance. Fujinami gets to retain his heat, and isn't pinned, Yatsu goes into the next bout with some real heat on him. I want to say Vince and Pat at the height of their powers couldn't have booked it any better. I mean it doesn't really matter than Japanese fans don't boo, Choshu and co are CLEARLY working heel in this feud. I mean, they break rules, they fight cheap and dirty. And they are absolutely fucking awesome.

 

4. Yatsu vs. Takada

 

I'm a heel fan by the way and am openly rooting for Yatsu here, even though this match took place over 30 years ago when I wasn't even two years old. Amateur takedown by Yatsu. Takada with some clubbing blows to come back and a leg drop. Backdrop suplex equalizes for Yatsu, he can throw those in his sleep. Belly to belly by Takada. Massive lariat. Two only. Scoop slam. Boston crab but he can't turn it over. Slips into a leg lock instead. Slap fest now in this position. Billy Robinson back breaker by Yatsu. Butterfly suplex. Takada comes back. Drop kick. Vertical suplex. Camel clutch. He's consistently focused on the back, despite this being as bomb heavy as it is. They are also REALLY laying in the shots here, this is heated as anything you'll ever see.

 

Single leg takedown into a figure four by Takada. That was good. Tombstone piledriver. German. He can't put Yatsu away. Missile drop kick. Two only! Scoop powerslam by Yatsu! And that'll do it.

 

Jesus just this portion of this match alone is awesome. Yatsu the equalizer.

 

5. Yatsu vs. Kimura

 

Yatsu is clearly knackered. And Kimura gives him a huge belly to back early which wipes him out further.. Kimura hits a lot of headbutts. Slapfest. Superplex by Kimura and that'll do. Crowd is in a frenzy.

 

This match was really just a transition point to move from the Yatsu portion of the match. Functional and doesn't outstay its welcome.

 

6. Kimura vs. Hamaguchi

 

Hamaguchi is super aggressive. He's the enforcer of this stable and he's going to make his mark on this match. I love the idea of him here as Choshu's gatekeeper. You will not pass! Devastating elbow drops by him and some great heeling as he points to him and taunts the fans. "There's your boy!" Clothesline by Hamaguchi. Bulldog. Great enforcer type performance from Hamaguchi here. Did exactly what was needed for the story and for his team.

 

7. Hamaguchi vs. Fujiwara

 

Fujiwara turns up with more fire than the actual sun and forces the veteran Hamaguchi to bail and break the momentum. Fujiwara will not be cooled though. Piledriver gets a very hot near fall. Clothesline by Hamguchi. Body slam. Elbow from the top rope. Another super hot near fall. Fujiwara has SO MUCH FIRE, Hamaguchi resorts to choking him. I'm loving his US-territory-style heeling in this match. Hamaguchi could have worked Memphis. Can you imagine him somewhere like Mid-South brought in as a hired hit man by Jim Cornette or something? He could have been a great territorial heel, I have no doubt,

 

Samoan drop by Hamaguchi. Multiple headbutts by Fujiwara. Hamaguchi bails, but Fujiwara follows him and slams him into the railings. And again. Fujiwara is like a proper fucking man's man isn't he. You can see him in like a dive bar with a pint in one hand and a cigarette in another, and then if something kicked off he'd snap a pool cue over someone's head. He has that vibe about him. This was another great entry in this match. The look on Hamaguchi's face after the bell goes for the double count out is amazing. It's the look of a man who knows he has failed his mission.

 

8. Inoki vs. Choshu

 

Choshu coming through the crowd is awesome here. Some fan tries to touch his shoulder and he's like "get the fuck off me". Someone tries to give him some flowers and he brushes them off. What a total fucking dude. Heels are cooler than babyfaces, there can be zero doubt. And as I say that out comes Inoki is in robe shaking hands with women and taking the flowers graciously. You know, he should have become a politician. Oh wait.

 

Now, obviously, things hit the mat here for a bit because both guys are fresh and it *is* Inoki. But there was a lot of struggle as well as an insane Backlund-style deadlift by Choshu into a flapjack, which was pretty cool. And pretty soon Choshu gives Inoki a backdrop suplex. Eventually Inoki gets Choshu in the octopus to end the match of all matches.

 

This match right here is the fucking shit. And I need to think about it more but it has a good chance of overtaking Clash 6 as my #1 match of all time. So much great stuff here over an hour and a half and just perfect, perfect booking. The psychology and strategic aspects of it are also amazing. In my view the MVPs were Fujinami and Yatsu who carried the first two acts of the three act play, but also super strong preformances from Hamaguchi who was basically perfect in his role, and Fujiwara who was absolutely kickass. If I have a criticism, it's that the Inoki vs. Choshu portion is too mat-oriented and doesn't seem to live up to all the awesome that comes before it, but I can forgive that because here is Inoki as the ultimate hero against the big boss, and he had to win it his own way. I also kind of like it because it's a virtual link back to the 70s-style within the context of this mind-blowing and groundbreaking feud.

 

This is unbelievably great. Transcendent.

 

*****

[Childs]

I don't think I've ever enjoyed anything in wrestling more than that gauntlet. People used to treat it as a batch of individual matches, so I'd never read much about it as a total experience when I sat down to review it for the DVDVR project. And I just sat there with my mouth open at how brilliantly they paid off everything happening in the promotion. Nothing quite like it as a mix of performance and booking.

[goodhelmet]

It's coming around to the time when I need to think about a rating and making a call on Lawler for the GWE. And really, what I'm missing here are GREAT matches. This one is in the "memorable" category, and he is likely going to perfect 10 that, but these opponents are coming and going and where are the classics? Will told me that one reason Flair had an unfair advantage over Lawler is that he had more opportunities to work great opponents while Lawler was working scrubs. Okay, but Randy Savage? He's not a scrub is he and this match really ought to be a bit better than this. I sound like I'm running down Lawler here, I'm not, he's good at what he does. But I'm really struggling to see the #1 GWE case running through this stuff.

 

 

I have generally stayed out of your rating system threads and avoided debating you in general lately because I have come to accept that we view wrestling differently. No need in engaging with someone who views wrestling so far from the way I view wrestling that it won't sway my opinion one way or another. If you don't think the Dundee, Mantel Funk, Bock, Kerry, Hennig, Savage matches etc.are classics while defending garbage like Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid then it only reinforces my above point.

However, when making cases for Dibiase and Flair, you have frequently used DVDVR ratings and consensus to bolster their cases. Lawler was on over 40 of the 125 matches on the Memphis set. He may have been in every Top Ten match but I am not sure about that. He has appeared on a bunch of other 80s sets and will appear on more because of the nominating crew;s love for Lawler and his great matches. It's not ok to be a hypocrite but at least you are a consistent hypocrite.

I will also add that Phil Schneider has made a (very incomplete) list at segunda caida of matches he considers great at Segunda Caida... http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2011/03/complete-and-accurate-jerry-king-lawler.html . I will also offer the very undeniable argument that after Memphis was released, so many people turned the corner and after years of 80s sets, have praised it as their favorite and Lawler as a great wrestler after watching it.

Also you completely missed my point (or chose to ignore it as you frequently do) about the Flair-Lawler comparison. I said Lawler was the true broomstick worker, not Flair. I stand by that point. Lawler isn't your cup of tea. I get that. However to claim that he doesn't have great matches when consensus (something you love to refer to when defending Dibiase) says otherwise, I call bullshit.

[goodhelmet]

I don't think I've ever enjoyed anything in wrestling more than that gauntlet. People used to treat it as a batch of individual matches, so I'd never read much about it as a total experience when I sat down to review it for the DVDVR project. And I just sat there with my mouth open at how brilliantly they paid off everything happening in the promotion. Nothing quite like it as a mix of performance and booking.

 

The greatest match in wrestling history.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think we do view wresting differently as we've discussed in the past. I like big performers -- baroque wrestling you could say -- you are more into your minimalism and little details.

 

However, do note that I gave the Dundee, Mantell and Funk matches I've reviewed so far 4.5 -- I do think they are all very good matches, but they aren't pushing five for me, which is where my issue has been.

 

And also note these two things:

 

1. We potentially agree on what is the greatest match in wrestling history.

 

2. Looking at my spreadsheet, Lawler is currently sitting at number 11.

[bkord123]

Is the 84 gauntlet match available anywhere online?

[JerryvonKramer]

I hate bee-lining but needs must. Still looking for that 5-star Lawer match.

 

Memphis 7.10

Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) (12/30/85)

 

This is easily the best match I've seen out of Memphis, despite some clipping (we get about 16 out of 23 mins), but we get the meat of it, and I've given ratings to Harley and Brisco matches in similar circumstances.

 

This is an all-time great heel performance from Dundee. Lawler's eye is injured and his on that injury is relentless. I especially enjoyed how every once in a while he'd just deck the ref too, taking advantage of that no DQ rule. Lawler, obviously, is great selling the damage, but this does feel like the Dundee show from start to finish here. This has got to be a career performance from him: pretty much does an A to Z of "how to heel" in about fifteen minutes. Second half of the match when Lawler comes back and they go into the arena is wild, with some big spots.

 

The clipping hurts this a tiny bit insomuch as the finish feels sudden and also transition, when it comes, feels a little arbitrary. Just enough to stop this getting the full five, but still obviously a match for the ages.

 

****3/4

 

Memphis 7.13

Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) (7/14/86)

 

This is less laser-focused than the last one, but I think it has more to recommend it than the 83 match, which I appear to be a lower vote on at ****1/2.

 

While we don't have the story around the injury, we get more back and forth parity here, and a greater variety of spots, especially piledrivers, beyond the awesome slugfests. The brawling inside and outside the ring is all top notch, and these two did have a special chemistry that gave Memphis it's best ever matches.

 

Assuming that this is where the set caps out in terms of quality, I think I'd have this #2, the 85 match #1, probably the Mantell match at #3, that PYT vs. Rich / Gilbert match at #4 and probably Lawler vs. Dory at #5.

 

****3/4

[Childs]

The Lawler/Idol cage match is one other you might want to take a look at.

[goc]

The Lawler/Idol cage match is one other you might want to take a look at.

And the Lawler/Bam Bam Texas Death match. Both of those are matches that finished in the top 10 in the voting.

[WingedEagle]

So the '84 Gauntlet match. I also watched it for the first time this weekend and went in knowing it finished #1 on the New Japan poll and was touted as a GOAT match candidate by many. It still somehow managed to exceed expectations. Thoughts on a few of my favorite segments.

 

Fujinami vs. Kobayashi -- Maybe the best Kobayashi has looked thus far, working a killer pace before going down and kicking off the highlight story of the match by beginning to work on Fujinami's arm and hand. Not to mention an incredibly hot finish to this opening.

 

Fujinami vs. Teranishi -- This is no worse than a 4.5 star affair and MOTYC on its own. I've seen nothing of Teranishi outside of his singles match with Fujinami earlier on the set and this, but to hell with reason -- this man belongs on a list of the 100 greatest ever. Just some of the most vicious, focused limb work I've seen. I was blown away at just how incredibly this piece was. Fujinami has had a few flash pins on the set that didn't seem proper for him from a booking perspective, but this one made sense and was a key piece of storytelling in a damn near perfect match. This whole thing is too long to go back and watch all that often, but I could watch this part every day. I loved it that much.

 

Fujinami vs. Yatsu -- Speaking of top notch booking, not to mention execution, we have the finish here. Not to mention more great heeling on the hand. This gauntlet is one of the strongest heel performances I've ever seen in Japan. Athleticism and sport take a backseat to hate. The collective brilliance throughout this match cannot be understated.

 

Takada's brief appearance was fiery and let him shine before being disposed of, while Yatsu got to again look like an absolutely devestating enforcer. Kimura's turn with Yatsu felt a little brief and was probably the weakest part of the match.

 

Higo Fucking Hamaguchi. Incredible stalling. Incredible chickenshit heel refusing to engage. Throw a slap and bail outside. Kicking out of a piledriver at a 1 count. Killer headbutts. He meets his match with Fujiwara who isn't about to put up with those antics and eliminates both of them as he refuses to let Higo escape. Is he always such a phenomenal heel? If it continues at all along these lines he's someone who's stock will go see a marked increase with me.

 

Inoki vs. Choshu wasn't the all out war that you want based on the match up to this point, but I get why it was laid out in this fashion and with that finish.

 

Just an absolutely remarkable match that flew by and had a ridiculous number of high points.

 

What I'm unclear on is just how high to rank something like this. It feels odd and a bit unfair to compare these 10 wrestlers doing their thing in individual segments Flair/Steamboat or the best of the All Japan crew in a singles or tag outing. Absolutely no idea how to weigh them side by side, but regardless, this is some of the best wrestling you will find anywhere. Highest possible recommendation for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

[JerryvonKramer]

Yeah I've thought about that too.

 

I rank War Games in my top 100 but not Royal Rumble. Where does this stand in that spectrum?

[shoe]

Have you watched The Race- Lawler hr draw?

[WingedEagle]

Yeah I've thought about that too.

 

I rank War Games in my top 100 but not Royal Rumble. Where does this stand in that spectrum?

 

On first impression this is well ahead of War Games. Love the Rumble but no clue how you'd rank it, although I tend to view that a singular Flair performance rather than any kind of multi-man outing.

[Outsider]

Thank you @victory that brings back memories when I was little telling my sister that Hogan 's real name was Terry Boulder! Anyway I knew that tape had nothing to do with Colesium Home Video. I remember there was also one with just Terry Boulder on cover and I think one with Andre on cover. Anyway I hope I find those matches online.

[JerryvonKramer]

Mid-South 6.3

Ted DiBiase vs. Bob Sweetan (Taped Fist) (10/11/85)

 

Beard and blonde hair for Ted, my fave look of his. Really good brawl from Ted against a lesser opponent and also -- along with the 1990 Dustin match -- a fairly rare example of him working from on top rather than from underneath as a heel since he takes about 90% of the match. At times Ted is almost wrestling himself here since 98% of the motion in the match comes from him. Sweetan does take the scoop powerslam and a piledriver, but this is mostly Ted creating all the movement through his great punches, chair shots, tons of fist drops. He also juices.

 

As for Sweetan he does some shaky leg selling at one point, and his facial selling is good, but he isn't the most natural or fiery of babyfaces. He throws some nice punches. Ted stooges and throws himself half way across the ring for the comeback stretch but it's hard to believe in Sweetan really. This is where you can tell the difference between an old but great worker like a Jose Lothario and someone who doesn't really have it. Still, if you ever want to see what a Ted working around a limited opponent is like, this is it. Also a great example of his level of aggression and intensity.

 

***3/4

 

Mid-South 6.5

Ted DiBiase vs. Bob Sweetan (10/13/85)

 

Sweetan shows a lot more in this match and has more time on offense. Piledriver on Ted and the latter's selling of it are amazing. After the match, the camera follows Ted bleeding profusely back to the locker room. This is rugged "man's man" type wrestling here. Pretty great stuff.

 

***1/2

 

Mid-South 6.8

Ted DiBiase vs. Ric Flair (11/6/85)

 

I've never quite known how to rate this match despite reviewing it multiple times in audio form. It's one of the all-time great and tremendous angles in wrestling history. But I'm going to try to look at it just from a match perspective.

 

Before the match Murdoch assaults Ted and it is truly one of the greatest pre-match assaults you will ever see. Murdoch's punches are out of this world. The post shot that gives Ted colour is sick, on the scale of postings that's got to be up there. Flair tries to get the bout thrown out and wants to leave without defending the belt. Bill Watts says that medics are attending to DiBiase's lacerations but has demanded to get his title shot. Aside from the greatness of this angle, I want to pause to emphasise how strongly Bill Watts outs over just the very *idea* of a shot at the NWA title, let alone actually being champion. Talk about the belt actually meaning something, holy shit. It was a coup for the NWA to have Watts on board in 85, the man was a wrestling genius. Just so GREAT at putting over the fundamental concepts of *meaning* in pro wrestling. When people think I'm just talking about "the good old days" as if it's some un-self-reflexive rose-tinted nostalgia, I'd like to stress two things, 1. I grew up 1000s of miles away from the Mid-South region and was 3 years old when this stuff was happening, 2. It's THIS really solid storytelling, and ability to build meaning in every single part of an angle in a logical and memorable way that I'm talking about. This sort of appreciation for the fundamentals of pro-wrestling psychology was part and parcel of what this board was about when I first joined it, I've sensed a drift away from it in recent years and I'd be genuinely sad to see stuff like this lost to newer generations of fans. Watts's sincerity, passion and absolute conviction in what he is saying during this little promo is the sort of thing that is sadly lacking in so much of the wrestling I've seen produced in the past decade. It's really the heart and soul of what pro wrestling should be in my view.

 

Anyway, let's get to the match.

 

Ted has his head bandaged, of course, and within seconds is bleeding buckets. All-time juice job. And w watch Ted being turned babyface before our eyes as the crowd start chanting "Teddy". A word on Jim Ross here as this match is one of his career highlights, he's so good during this. The brainbuster on the concrete by Murdoch has lost none of its impact. Every player in this saga executes their role perfectly. Flair is basically the perfect guy to play the indifferent champ passing through, DiBiase puts in an outstanding selling job and his exhaustion and weakness from blood loss is some pretty great babyface work from him made more remarkable by the fact that he came into the match a heel. Murdoch, although not technically a participant in this match is also tremendous in his part.

 

Along with Flair's visit to Lawler in Memphis, and the Freebirds piledriving Ted in Georgia, this is a real contender for "best angle of the 1980s" and by extension "best angle ever".

 

The match is sort of indivisible from the angle. Difficult to separate the two, but the only rating that feels right is ...

 

*****

 

However, I purposefully did not include this in my top 100 matches before and I still won't because of fuzziness over how to classify it.

 

Mid-South 7.5

Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch (12/27/85)

 

This is a great double juice brawl. Murdoch has a laser-like focus on Ted's neck, laying in some incredible punches and chair shots, which clearly foreshadows the brainbuster. Ted's selling is amazing and it really does make me sad to see such a great worker summarily dismissed from GWE ballots for ... Basically no reason that I can make out. If Ted was in WWE right now, he'd easily be the best worker in the company, and then some. I believe that. The same is true of Murdoch of course. These guys knew how to work; the could be organic and call it in the ring to work a match like this which still tells a great and logical story. When people say to me things like "I don't like 80s American wrestling" they might as well be telling me that they don't like wrestling period. If you don't like this stuff, I have so little in common with you as a fan that it's pointless for us even to talk. I mean, about wrestling that is. What does "I don't value American 80s wrestling" actually mean anyway? You don't like great work? Storytelling? Psychology? Gritty and violent action? What does it actually mean? When I say "I don't care for current WWE" you know why that is. What I don't get is when people say they aren't high on this stuff. Do you want moonsaults and hurricanranas? Do you want a lot more high spots and false finishes? I feel passionately about this, and I'm gonna shoot straight.

 

Anyway, there's a spot in this match where Murdoch throws Ted across the railings and the way he bounces off is sick and the chair shots, I mean Jesus. Murdoch's elbows are fantastic here.

 

One neat little wrinkle in this match is seeing how Ted essentially doesn't change his heel character as a face, he's still loading the glove, he's still prepared to choke Murdoch, he doesn't undergo a personality transplant just because the fans like him now, and that is one of my friend Johnny Sorrow's favourite things in wrestling. The continuity does make sense. Great match with a ton of intense and violent work.

 

Post-match Masked Superstar turns up to help Murdoch beat the shit out of Ted. Dick gives him another brainbuster. Absolute peak Ted here and one of the hotter runs in Murdoch's career. Masters in the art of pro wrestling. I dread to think some of the guys who are going to be ranked higher on some lists.

 

****1/2

 

Mid-South 7.9

Ted DiBiase vs. Dick Murdoch (No DQ) (12/31/85)

 

Slower, and longer match. Ted busted open early on a table shot. Punches from both guys out of this world. I think in the punch leagues I'd only have Dundee and Lawler above these two. More methodical pacing with a similar finish to the last bout. This is the more famous match but I've always preferred the 12/27 match as a hotter and more hate fuelled sprint. The story in both matches is essentially the same, but this one is just told a little differently. Still a great match, but I find the previous one hotter.

 

****

[JerryvonKramer]

Was about to go to sleep when Matt alerted me to this and a batch of other matches. Couldn't go to bed and not give this a look. This thread is gonna be devoted to Maple Leaf Wrestling for the next few days.

Ricky Steamboat vs. Ray Stevens (3/8/81)

Steamer has a tache here and is Mid-Atlantic champ, and Stevens is world tag champ with Ivan Koloff. Steamboat is built like a He-Man action figure, ripped, not an ounce of fat on him. Can't get over the tache.

Stevens controls early with chinlocks and cheapness. Steamer comes back with a slam and some chops. Crowd are hot for him. After a quick break Stevens does his flip, Ricky attacks the arm with some vigour, including a splash on the arm (unusual). This arm sequence from Steamboat has been pretty good. It's worked with a good amount of focus, intensity and everything looks painful. Very "scientific", but what else do you want from Steamboat on top?

Structurally this has been weird, almost as if the shine and heat are reversed. The heel was on top for the first six or seven minutes, and then since the transition it's been the babyface. Eventually Stevens dumps Steamboat which breaks the momentum.

Stevens again has not much in the way of offense other than cheapness: chokes, rakes, stuff like that. Steamboat makes an epic comeback, but Stevens cuts him off with feet on the ropes pin. Ref spots it, and match continues. Then he hits a crossbody from the top for the pin. But Stevens has his leg on the rope but the ref doesn't see it! Steamboat wins despite the foot on the rope. Weird booking. I've never gotten that old deal of the heel screwed by the ref. Stevens has a legitimate complaint!

Unfortunately, just like every other Ray Stevens match I've ever seen, I didn't see even a glimpse of the supposedly all-time great. Not even a hint of it. Steamboat was really good and carried the match, not only through his selling (as per usual for him), but also through his focused arm work and fired up comebacks. Stevens, who I guess was calling this match, didn't bring a lot other than timing. The structure seemed topsy turvy to me, as if geared up for a heel comeback. Kinda strange. And the booking of the finish plain makes no sense in terms of psychology, unless they wanted a rematch, but if so, why not screw the babyface not the heel?

Worth watching if only for Steamer's moustache, but Stevens remains the biggest disappointment in terms of rep vs. what you see.

Excited to watch more of this Maple Leaf footage.

***1/2

[JerryvonKramer]

Ray Stevens and Jimmy Snuka vs. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood (6/29/80)

 

Stevens and Snuka are managed by Gene Anderson. Youngblood is introduced as "Indian Youngblood". They seemed to play up Steamboat's Hawaiianness a lot more around this time. Commentary is in Japanese.

 

Steamer has the tache here also. Fast-paced criss crossing from Steamboat and Snuka to start. Good action. Settle into Steamboat working Snuka's arm which always seems to be his go-to basic strategy. We get arm drags and counter arm drags here, which is pretty cool. Youngblood in. He's very "bouncy". Stevens in. And faces dominate now for a good bit working Stevens's left arm. Youngblood mainly uses an arm bar which has all the hallmarks of a resthold.

 

Snuka in and he turns the tide with a shot to the throat. Looks like we're settling in to Youngblood in peril. Snuka does his signature big chop. Powerman choke. Stevens in with cheapness. Face drop thing. Choking. I mean his offense is in the same ballpark as Bobby Heenan's. Snuka in with a splash from the top rope, the actual rope not the turnbuckle. That looked impressive.

 

Hot tag to Steamer and he brings the crowd to life. Vertical suplex on Snuka. Trademark chop. Snuka cuts him off. Stevens in. Immediately loses advantage. Double collision spot. Snuka and Youngblood go at it on the apron. Stevens goes for a pin, two only. Snuka in with a choke slam. Blatant chokes. This goes on for a very long time. Steamer comes back. Hot tag to Youngblood. Stevens in. Sleeper on him. Steamboat back in. Flying crossbody from the top, poor landing, gets two only. Time limit draw.

 

This was crap. Stevens is just a big ball of nothing here. He has so little offense he honestly might as well be Frank Williams. This was worked double heat and the second face in peril sequence was appalling. Given that this was on Steamboat, that's entirely on the heels for having nothing to do. A three or four minute sequence is all Snuka could think of doing -- this is Snuka in 1980 not fucking Bobby Duncum, he surely has more up his sleeve than that. Youngblood looked good, but the babyfaces were totally wasted in this match. You can have all the great selling in the world, but if the heels can't think of anything to do with it, you end up with a not-very-good match. Very disappointing.

 

**

 

Dory Funk Jr. vs. Abdullah the Butcher (6/29/80)

 

This probably explains why the Japanese cameras were there. This is when Dory was defending the NWA international title all over the place. For some reason Ernie Ladd is there looking like the flyest motherfucker ever to be born, and he tussles with Dory who is being cheered as a babyface by the crowd.

 

That gives Abby is in as he ambushes early. Dory hasn't even got his jacket off. I've just realised that I've reviewed this before, here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27872-learning-to-love-dory/page-4&do=findComment&comment=5692030

 

Dory Funk Jr vs. Abdullah the Butcher (6/29/80)

 

This is actually from Toronto, but has Japanese commentary. Ernie Ladd and The Sheik are both there too. Ladd is wagging a finger at Dory which allows Abby a sneak ambush.

 

Not long before Abby is bleeding here just from kicks to his cut up forehead. Dory in with nasty shots. Wow, he suplexes the big man! Elbow drop. And again, and again. This is your spirited brawling Dory. Forearm smash. And again. Sleeper. Abby is bleeding badly from the forehead. There are Canadian sailors in the front row. Abby breaks with a palm to the throat. Headbutt. Dumps him onto the ramp. Big ramp in Toronto. Uppercuts and forearm smashes from Dory. As they brawl in the ramp, the ref calls a no contest. Dory is intent to beat on Abby as the ref stops him and Abby just leaves.

 

Not bad at all, but a bit too short to go much higher than ...

 

**1/2

 

Let's see what else is available ...

[JerryvonKramer]

Ole Anderson vs. Bad Bad Leroy Brown (10/4/81)

 

JIP. As we join Pat Patterson is warding off Ivan Koloff. I know Pat and Ivan were partners at one time, so this must have been after they split. Surely Pat was with WWF at this point, which I guess is the unique thing about Maple Leaf. I think Crockett had some points in the territory and Frank Tunney had a long-term partnership with Vince Sr, so you could get Mid-Atlantic talent on the same cards as WWF talent. Leroy a Brown would later be one of the Zambui Express.

 

I kinda wish we'd have got Patterson vs. Ivan here cos that match could be all sorts of great.

 

This match really puts paid to the idea that Ole wouldn't sell cos he rag dolls for Brown here, taking a powerslam and a military press! Ole slips out of the ring and sneaks some brass knucks into his trunks. Allows him to take over. Koloff runs back in for a DQ.

 

Too clipped to rate, but this was better than one would expect.

 

I was interested to learn that Nikolai Volkoff and Chris Markoff were tagging in Toronto as "The Russians" at this time. They could have formed an uber-group with Ivan if they wanted!

 

Killer Khan vs. Johnny Weaver (10/4/81)

 

From what I've seen, Weaver was a really good worker in his younger days, so this has some potential. Tape here looks bout 18th generation copy, but hey that's part of the thrill right old-school grapple fans?

 

Weaver looks tiny next to Khan. Big headlocks from Khan. Dominates with some basic clubbing blows. Reverse chinlock. Consistent focus on the back. Hiptoss. Khan misses an elbow which gives Weaver a chance for a comeback. Sleeper! Khan cuts him off. Weaver manages a backdrop. Backbreaker by Khan. Knee from the second rope. And that'll do.

 

Your basic old veteran puts over pushed heel match. Was effective and did its job of putting over Khan.

 

**