JerryvonKramer Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...e-champions-11/ Chad and Parv review Clash of the Champions IX: Coastal Crush. In this show: - [3:52] Wrestling Observer roundup from May to June 1990, with talking points including: Ole Anderson's policies and signing as the new booker, talk of Vince McMahon buying WCW in 1990 (!), thoughts on the JYD-Horsemen racism angle, Cactus Jack quitting WCW, and lots more. - [00:35:08] Clash 11 review, including one of the strangest segments ever as Gary Michael Cappetta interviews El Gigante in Spanish, El Gigante's spacial awareness, some unique matchups, and JR's father's nerveholds. - [1:50:56] End of the show awards, and a new feature, 'Question for the Listeners' The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Should have been a discussion of the fact that Dylan Waco was there LIVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Random thoughts that come to me during the listen... Jerry Jarrett as WCW booker in 1990 is an all-timer of a What If. At the time, Jarrett was absolutely on fire in both Memphis and Dallas from a creativity standpoint. Of course, that leaves the future of those promotions in doubt and if he keeps all 3 of them he'd doubtless spread himself way too thin. I tend to agree with Chad that the general hotness of the promotion matters more than what's being "given away" on TV, even pre-Monday Night Wars. Lots and lots of promotions have put big matches on TV. All the Japan promotions, World Class, and Portland basically didn't run TV squashes at all. Mid-South always had hot television. It could be argued that Watts in particular burnt himself out, but I'm not sure how long of a shelf life any "boom period" in wrestling can really have no matter what you do, at least with the promoters running wrestling in 1990. "Local TV" = Worldwide and Pro. Or Superstars, Challenge, and Spotlight, for the WWF. There's no question the WWF was far ahead of WCW in this regard, with them running Event Centers. I know it doesn't sound all that intuitive, especially now, but wrestlers talking of coming to the Ohio Center or the Market Square Arena to settle their issue did matter. The WWF Event Centers had gone mostly generic at this point, but I do know Meltzer reported a noticeable uptick in ticket sales when the WWF ran a localized angle for Oakland where Dino Bravo put Hogan on a stretcher after a match with Earthquake, and Hogan appeared on Bay Area television discussing it and vowing revenge for the next show. Woman wasn't Sherri, but I do think she added to the Horsemen and the idea that they wanted Missy as their "only" woman is something I find imbecilic. Sheiky, incredibly, would stick around all the way through at least the end of 1990, with I don't think a single match on television. But he did work a full house show schedule. (EDIT: Sheiky turns up at the Bash, working his old enemy Mike Rotunda!) The racial stuff with Rocky King is every bit as bad as Meltzer makes it out to be. And yes, Flair and Ole's promos sucked, too. Even if the delivery and the lines were good, and some of them were, the content was so horribly distasteful that it can't be overlooked. I think Ole's issue re: managers on commentary is that they were entertaining on commentary to the point where it would endear them to fans and it would hurt their heel heat in arenas. I'm sure Jesse Ventura would have gotten cheers had he made house show appearances, though admittedly it never seemed to hurt Heenan. Objectively speaking (as objective as one can be about music) I have to go with U2 as the top rock band in the world at this point, though I think they were in sort of a transition period as Achtung Baby wasn't out yet. That Cappetta/Gigante interview makes sense in the abstract, but yeah, that didn’t come off well. I only have conversational knowledge of Spanish but Parv’s comments about Gigante’s charisma is spot-on: he is no Alfonso Morales or Pierroth, Jr. Not having seen Callous/Pillman specifically, I agree that he's looked better than expected in 1990. I can buy that this match was sort of underrated. Can't believe there was a J. Tapper shoutout. He must have been a personal stylist for some Turner bigwig, maybe Ted himself. Lameness of the finish aside, I liked that MX/R'nR match a whole lot. They didn't hit everything they tried, but there was some truly awesome shit there. Eaton coming off the top to cream Morton as he went for the huracanrana was one of the all-time great tag transition spots. I can think of a bunch of great Kroffat singles matches in All-Japan, but I'm not sure I can recall even seeing a singles Furnas match period, much less a really good one. These go-go-go Clashes are going to get worse before they get better. Clash XV in particular is a total mess in this regard. The difference between Gigante and Andre is pretty stark and definitive. Andre wasn't as tall, but he looked MASSIVE--he looked otherworldly, like a giant out of The Odyssey. Or The Princess Bride. Gigante didn't have any of that--he was just a skinny guy who happens to be freakishly tall. It's almost like expecting Conan O'Brien (who's 6'4") to come across as an intimidating wrestler. Main event performance worse than JYD...could Scott Steiner at the Royal Rumble against Triple H be a qualifier? Was Raja Lion vs. Giant Baba the main event of that card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks Peter, awesome to read your thoughts. Should have been a discussion of the fact that Dylan Waco was there LIVE. Actually we do at least contemplate this. This is where those time stamps come in handy ... exchange at around the 36-minute mark: Chad: Yep, Charleston, South Carolina, Dylan's home town. Parv: Right well I wonder if Dylan was in attendance for this show ... Chad: I think he was living in Chattanooga or that area around this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Will be listening to this today. For future reference I was born in Chattanooga, but moved to Charleston when I was seven months old. Still I visited Chattanooga all the time because all my extended family lived there. This led to me going to many shows in both places and getting to see that Gilbert/Simmons v. Fantastics match live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Will be listening to this today. For future reference I was born in Chattanooga, but moved to Charleston when I was seven months old. Still I visited Chattanooga all the time because all my extended family lived there. This led to me going to many shows in both places and getting to see that Gilbert/Simmons v. Fantastics match live. I went on vacation and visited Charlotte, Charleston, Greenville, Atlanta and Spartanburg, alas this was in 2013 If only I went during the 80's or early 90's I would of seen all sorts of great stuff from JCP/WCW/SMW, but all I got was a TNA taping in Duleth, GA with Rampage Jackson. Life isn't fair sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Dylan - having been to Charleston myself (and they talked about Hugo 20 years later) was the sub-title "Coastal Crush" a little too early? Biggest rock bands of 1990: Metallica, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Guns N' Roses, Freebirds, Billy Joel, Phil Collins (U2 was big but inbetween the Rattle and Hum tour and Achtung Baby release) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Len Denton was the Grappler and one of the DWB's. In 89 he got a lot of praise for booking Portland. Though a lot of people believe it was Roddy Piper really booking Portland at the time. Just an FYI guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Is Len Denton realated to Joel Denton that would show up on some All Japan 90's stuff I watched? All I could think about was Joel when Parv asked the question. Steiner vs. HHH is a good call on worst main event and one I would put behind JYD/Flair as far as match quality is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 No clue about the Denton connection. In Bigelow's shoot he did claim that he was a bounty hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 No clue about the Denton connection. In Bigelow's shoot he did claim that he was a bounty hunter. See, when I hear bounty hunter I think "bail bondsmen" like Dog the Bounty Hunter. Parv inflected it like Bam Bam was Boba Fett and taking mercenary/kill jobs or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 That was exactly what I had in mind, I was picturing that line up from ESB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Where's Brick for a photoshop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Somewhere in my brain, I kept getting bounty hunter and repo men mixed up. Had a real off day yesterday and didn't want to say something foolish like, "he was dressed to the sevens" or "shaking my head" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 The All-Japan guy was Joel DEATON, who was also one of the Thunderfoots and did underneath work for JCP under the Deaton name. No relation to Len Denton. May or may not be related to fellow JCP underneath guy Vernon Deaton (lots of conflicting info over that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks Peter for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lust Hogan Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Can't find this on iTunes. Has it been placed there?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Chad - love that you mention Gigante doing nothing during the brawl - which was exactly what he did at the end of Capital Combat also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Can't find this on iTunes. Has it been placed there?? You'll have to download from Soundcloud for now. Trouble with my web hosts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Lacelle Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I think a contender for worst performance in a main event has to be Jeff Hardy when he was in no condition to perform against Sting. Also any Andre match post 1990 has got to be in the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustys Pencil Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ill be listening to this after lunch so expect my usual stream of consciousness soon. I've been watching NWA 89 the last few weeks so I'm sure at some point I may catch up...The tv from the Flair booking era is really strong Edit: for some reason this ep won't download on Itunes...ahh well I'll be back with my thoughts later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustys Pencil Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I hated all racial angles I would say Guns N Roses were the greatest band by 1990 I always liked Tom Zenk more than most and I couldn't even sell you on why lol The Southern Boys confederate reenactment gimmick as faces didn't exactly help my feelings towards WCW during the time Loved this match though...The Birds as a lower mid card tag act was fine with me as they had long since stopped being cool Not to speak ill of the dead but El Gigante was one of the worst memories of early 90s wrestling One of the things that always made me hate WWF was that they never debuted their wrestlers with footage from anywhere else. WCW having this Vader NJPW footage made you want to see him more and when he got over would also help get the other Japanese guys over when need be Flair trained Stan Lane in his backyard or Crocketts backyard or something like that I remember Stan saying that in a MX Express shoot interview Furnas was still pretty young in the business in this match and I know he had quite a few world records but 30 seems ridiculous You guys are always so hard on the Steiners. They were hugely over for a long time Agree wholeheartedly about Flair working himself in this match...this is one of those ones where even Flair couldn't save it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I hated all racial angles Same here man, same here. Forever and always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Always love these stream of conscious thoughts. You guys are always so hard on the Steiners. They were hugely over for a long time Really think so? I think I have lessened a lot over them since we started watching and Parv is always a big fan. I feel like their 1991 run will receive more criticism from me than the 90 stuff because I really don't like the Scott vs. Flair Clash match and am lower on Superbrawl I than most. I love the Nasties tag coming up and liked the Scott gauntlet they did in September 1990. 1990 may be my favorite year of them overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm pretty sure if you look at the attendance numbers The Grateful Dead were the biggest band of 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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