WWE Network... It's Here

[DMJ]

- I also buy that Cena was a potential cut at some point. At the time, the roster was massive and they had lots and lots of guys with impressive physiques and charisma*. Even the rapper gimmick is an idea that I could see making lots of eyes roll backstage with producers/agents thinking, "Vince finds this funny now and we're selling some merch, but this won't last and Vince will get bored with it." 

 

- I didn't think there was too much revisionist history with the Austin story. Austin has apologized on his podcast for his role, but he's also been consistent with his belief that putting Austin/Lesnar on free TV with no build in a KOTR Qualifying Match was a dumb move...and I agree with him. Austin said it best in the documentary too, something along the lines, "I don't like tooting my own horn but I'm kind of rare." Even at that time, aside from maybe The Rock and Hogan (who was on a big nostalgia run, iirc), Austin was still THE biggest star in the company and that warrants favorable booking. Even in the doc, Vince's side of the argument was that they wanted to get Lesnar over strong (which they could do and did without Austin), wanted a shocker moment (when you start there as your main intention, its not a good thing, see Russo-era WCW), and felt like, "By the time we have it at a WrestleMania, everybody will forget that it happened." If that last line isn't a great summary of why people don't give a shit about WWE's hamster wheel, repetitive booking in 2020 and why attendance is down and subscriptions aren't going up, I don't know what is. 

[Big Pete]

I just can't remember anybody of Cena's type being fired outright. Even guys like Sean O'Haire, Mark Jindrak, Nathan Jones, Bull Buchanan etc. had a couple of stints in OVW before they were let go and usually their behaviour played a large role. From all reports, Cena was a model student who worked incredibly hard to overcome his deficiencies. With his natural charisma, I just can't see the WWE actually going through with it.

I don't deny the reports mind you, I just think it was speculation and the company was never really going to go through with it. If things got really bad and they had to re-think the brand split, maybe, but there were a slew of washed up talents and addicts that had to go before him.

[Big Pete]

Jindrak was the unlikely star of the Evolution episode. I was always curious to hear what the story was about the promotional shoots and the only story we heard is that HHH put the kabosh on the plans. Now we know why and as unbelievably silly as their antics sounded, they actually have video proof of these two doing their barnyard toy act. To Mark's credit, he didn't take it personally on Twitter and it was cool to finally have some closure on it.

[C.S.]

I really liked the Evolution episode. As "obvious" as Randy Orton and Batista seem in retrospect, it's not so easy when you're in the thick of things and trying to make that decision.

For a bit of fun, I wracked my brain trying to come up with who would be in a rebooted version of Evolution should such a thing ever occur, and it was hard.

I ultimately came up with two possible versions:

Seth Rollins (HHH) - I know, I know, but he really would be the best fit for the H role
Triple H (Flair)
Keith Lee (Batista)
Angel Garza (Randy Orton)

Or:

Seth Rollins (HHH) 
Triple H (Flair)
EC3 (Batista)
Bobby Roode (Randy Orton)

This is an alternate universe, obviously, where those guys get pushed and Bobby Roode isn't quite so long in the tooth age-wise.

[C.S.]

The Brock Lesnar episode of Ruthless Aggression was the least interesting and informative one so far. While I wasn't expecting new interviews with Lesnar, it really would've helped to have them. Everything else was basically what we already know.

Heyman made a good point that Lesnar's original stint was only two years, and look at all he did in such a short amount of time. I was mildly surprised that Lesnar wasn't around longer. I thought it was longer, but it was only 24 months.

Brian Gewirtz parroted the usual "how dare you" company line about Lesnar walking away after everything they'd done for him and admitted a lot of people resented him for it. Gewirtz later walked that back a bit by saying it was better for Lesnar to go if he wasn't happy, because that isn't good for anyone.

 

[sek69]

I 100% believe if Brock hadn't have gone to UFC and won the title, he would have been on Vince's shit list to this day.  He's come closest of anyone in terms of getting a court to call bullshit on WWE's ridiculous contract terms (they tried to keep him from wrestling anywhere in the world when he left WWE to play football). Had he not gone to UFC and activated Vince's "real sports cred" boner, the narrative would probably be he was a spoiled baby who couldn't hack it in WWE. 

[Blehschmidt]

51 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I 100% believe if Brock hadn't have gone to UFC and won the title, he would have been on Vince's shit list to this day.  He's come closest of anyone in terms of getting a court to call bullshit on WWE's ridiculous contract terms (they tried to keep him from wrestling anywhere in the world when he left WWE to play football). Had he not gone to UFC and activated Vince's "real sports cred" boner, the narrative would probably be he was a spoiled baby who couldn't hack it in WWE. 

100% This.

If Brock had failed his Vikings try out, then gotten his ass handed to him in the UFC, he would either have disappeared into the wilderness to hunt forever more, or he would have ended up in TNA or Japan, because Vince would have never looked at him again.

I fully believe that the current state of WWE is all because Vince McMahon got his feelings hurt when his "Next Big Thing" in Brock Lesnar decided he didn't want to do it anymore and took his ball and went home. That is when the focus of the company changed from making stars to making the company the star and we've had 18 years of them knee capping every single person who showed the potential to be the next big thing, or even remotely started to get themselves over without the companies permission. (Sure there was John Cena, but with his charisma and attitude he was destined to reach the levels he did, but if the company was behind him like they'd been behind a Hogan or Austin, think about where he could have gone.)

Then when Brock did come back, Holy Shit, he's getting perks the likes of which have never been seen before, and likely never will again.

They can spin whatever version of history they want on their show, but the fact is that Vince is Brock's bitch.

 

[WingedEagle]

Are there any quick guides or links to TV or other network content that builds PPVs before the Raw era?  I.e. SNMEs, Prime Times, etc.?  Curious what's out there that sets up shows like the early Manias, Summerslams and Survivor Series.

[sek69]

48 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said:

I fully believe that the current state of WWE is all because Vince McMahon got his feelings hurt when his "Next Big Thing" in Brock Lesnar decided he didn't want to do it anymore and took his ball and went home. That is when the focus of the company changed from making stars to making the company the star and we've had 18 years of them knee capping every single person who showed the potential to be the next big thing, or even remotely started to get themselves over without the companies permission. (Sure there was John Cena, but with his charisma and attitude he was destined to reach the levels he did, but if the company was behind him like they'd been behind a Hogan or Austin, think about where he could have gone.)

 

Honestly, the bigger factor was probably Stacy Keibler being on Dancing With the Stars. She was getting the full "look we got one of our folks on a show with mainstream stars!" megapush until the celebrities there smartened her up to what it's like being a star outside of WWE, with actual benefits and standards and whatnot. As soon as that happened it became clear she wasn't going to go back to wrestling and all promotion came to a screeching halt. Ever since then, WWE has taken great pains to make sure they personally curate all exposure of their talent to the mainstream so they don't get to full of themselves. 

[Migs]

1 hour ago, WingedEagle said:

Are there any quick guides or links to TV or other network content that builds PPVs before the Raw era?  I.e. SNMEs, Prime Times, etc.?  Curious what's out there that sets up shows like the early Manias, Summerslams and Survivor Series.

The SNMEs are usually the best bet in terms of a time investment. Prime Time has the build but also a lot of filler.

[hammerva]

The only revisionist history of Brock's Ruthless Aggression that cracked me was the idea that in 2002 Summerslam Brock was getting cheers because he was becoming extremely popular with the fans.  while he was getting popular, the main reason why the crowd booed the hell out of Rock is because they knew he was leaving for I think Scorpion King.  so the finish was a given.   Rock was really one of the original WWE "You sold out" guy that the fans turned on

The Story of FCW documentary that is supposed to "premiere" tonight is up if live to go to the live schedule part.  So damn good.  Tells all of the good and bad of the company.   The part about Dusty's promo classes are must see in my opinion

 

[C.S.]

Don't sleep on the FCW documentary. It's great stuff. Was really interesting to see some of the folks who didn't make it. A strong mic worker or two in that bunch. 

[WingedEagle]

How is it that Wrestlemania 2 isn't always at the top of the conversation among all time bad shows?  What a slog to get through even as background material.

[Ricky Jackson]

First half of Mania 2 is dreadful, but from Bulldogs vs Dream Team on it's a pretty good show 

[Mrzfn]

Even prior to that I actually enjoy Savage vs. Steele pretty well. Some big stinkers but some good stuff too.

[CarpetCrawler]

11 hours ago, Mrzfn said:

Even prior to that I actually enjoy Savage vs. Steele pretty well. Some big stinkers but some good stuff too.

Savage and Steele is tons of fun, as is the Funks tag and the Bulldogs tag.  Bar none XI is my pick for the dirt worst.

[WingedEagle]

23 hours ago, Mrzfn said:

Even prior to that I actually enjoy Savage vs. Steele pretty well. Some big stinkers but some good stuff too.

I actually thought Jake vs. George Wells was the best of the squash matches.  Bulldogs/Dream Team was okay but it didn't bowl me over at all.  Hogan/Bundy was a perfectly acceptable version of that kind of match, but man, what a horrendous show.

[Mrzfn]

From what I remember the only thing that struck me as downright horrible was the boxing match. Nothing could save that one...

[flyonthewall2983]

The battle royal is the only match from that show I've ever enjoyed. I also liked Piper's promo that is only on the Coliseum Video release. It must have been a real chore to watch live on PPV. 

[Migs]

It seems like they're waiting on Tampa or the state to cancel to avoid cancellation fees on the contract. (This is almost certainly the case for the other events over the weekend as well, perhaps even moreso.)

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

The battle royal is the only match from that show I've ever enjoyed. I also liked Piper's promo that is only on the Coliseum Video release. It must have been a real chore to watch live on PPV. 

I saw it live.  There really wasn't any such thing as "Pay Per View" at the time, and if there was very few people had it.  You have to remember, a lot of people didn't even have cable at that time. The majority of people saw the show on "Closed Circuit Television" where you bought tickets to go to a local arena, and they broadcast the show on huge screens with crappy audio. At the time, I didn't mind Wrestlemania 2 all that much.  I got kind of caught up in the spectacle and the experience.  You have to consider that WWF shows really weren't all that great at that time when it came to the quality of the matches, either.  At the time, I remember enjoying the Battle Royal and the Bulldogs match, and not minding the Hogan/Bundy match.

But you're not wrong, it does not hold up well at all.

[sek69]

22 minutes ago, Migs said:

It seems like they're waiting on Tampa or the state to cancel to avoid cancellation fees on the contract. (This is almost certainly the case for the other events over the weekend as well, perhaps even moreso.)

Pretty much all the folks promoting indy shows on Mania weekend have come out saying if they make the choice to cancel on their own it will be instant financial ruin, making it sound like there's some kind of safety net in place if it's mandated by a government agency. 

[Steve T]

Adding more episodes of WCW Saturday Night on Monday (3/16).

 

https://www.wwenetworknews.com/2020/03/13/exclusive-wwe-network-set-to-add-more-classic-early-to-mid-90s-wcw-as-march-2020s-classic-content-drop/

 

 

[flyonthewall2983]

46 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

I saw it live.  There really wasn't any such thing as "Pay Per View" at the time, and if there was very few people had it.  You have to remember, a lot of people didn't even have cable at that time. The majority of people saw the show on "Closed Circuit Television" where you bought tickets to go to a local arena, and they broadcast the show on huge screens with crappy audio. At the time, I didn't mind Wrestlemania 2 all that much.  I got kind of caught up in the spectacle and the experience.  You have to consider that WWF shows really weren't all that great at that time when it came to the quality of the matches, either.  At the time, I remember enjoying the Battle Royal and the Bulldogs match, and not minding the Hogan/Bundy match.

But you're not wrong, it does not hold up well at all.

Vince's big head must have watched Live Aid and thought he could do something like that better, and in one more city. The fact he never tried it again, even with the advances in that kind of technology in the 3+ decades since speaks to how much of a production nightmare it was. 

[Migs]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Pretty much all the folks promoting indy shows on Mania weekend have come out saying if they make the choice to cancel on their own it will be instant financial ruin, making it sound like there's some kind of safety net in place if it's mandated by a government agency. 

I think the safety net would be the way contract law applies in a state of emergency - if the government says the event CAN'T happen, then there'd be no cancellation fee / forfeit of deposit, because the contract would be unenforceable. 

EDIT: for WWE, I'd assume it's much more complicated, because they may be getting paid by Tampa to do the event, which would mean cancellation fees and maybe forfeiting the amount they were supposed to get paid. What I said above would apply for the indy companies that probably have pretty generic contracts ("I pay you X to rent a place, no cancellations more than X days before").