Your personal most Overrated and Underrated

[JaymeFuture]

So, for our next podcast, we're going to talk about the things in wrestling history that get either too much or too little praise, and look at the reasons why. Looking for some feedback to read on the show (and credit your fine selves for contributing), so:

 

What is the ONE thing (angle/match/wrestler/show/whatever) that you feel is overrated more than anything else, and ONE thing you personally feel is most underrated, and explain why.

 

I realise there is an entire subforum devoted to how certain individuals, matches and angles are rated, but it's more about personal opinion, what stands out the most when you first think this, and why? I'm interested to see the spread of opinion.

[subatomic_elbow]

Overrated: I think everything gets so deconstructed now that there's no sacred cows left.

Underrated: Buddy Roberts is the best professional wrestler who ever lived. I see a lineage from him to Brian Pillman to Dean Ambrose. Hell, all three Freebirds are underrated.

[JerryvonKramer]

My overrated by a long-shot is post-comeback Shawn Michaels. I really don't like his big showcase Wrestlemania matches or the era of endless false finishes and near falls they helped to inculcate. People go on about Taker vs. HBK, I am not at all a fan of those matches and they represent everything I've come to dislike about WWE main event style. A poster here, El-P, has a great phrase:"the self-conscious epic" -- and nothing to me represents that idea more than Taker vs. HBK, or indeed Shawn Michael's face in general in the 21st century. "I love you", fuck off! I might be a voice of one in a sea of 1000s, but there is no way that the Taker matches are *****

 

Underrated? On PWO it's hard to think of anyone who is underrated because this place is all about re-evaluating guys and giving them a fair shake.

 

Sorry to anyone who has heard or read me saying this at least two dozen times before, but "out there" on the world-wide interwebs, it's got to be Ron Garvin. The guy is seen as a joke by many remembered for being the worst world champ and then being the guy we see in WWF feuding with Greg Valentine before jobbing out to everyone. Most kids growing up watching only WWF TV developed the opinion that Garvin was very lame, myself included. But his series of matches with Flair -- the studio match in 85, the title win and the Starrcade 87 match -- are as strong as anyone's, all ***** in my book, and I think there are more than just those three with Flair alone. Garvin was stiff, surprisingly agile, and could work counter-holds on the mat if need be. But it's the level of intensity and brutality in those Flair matches that are exceptional -- I think as stiff as anything you see in All Japan, with no exaggeration. I see the Starrcade match routinely given ratings like ** by Scott Keith and assorted followers, which is obviously just nonsense. Garvin remains probably the single most underrated worker of the 80s. I suspect one or two of the guys on the panel of Jaymes's podcast will think that Garvin sucks.

[JerryvonKramer]

Someone also has to pick Luger!

[thebrainfollower]

Overrated for me is Vader. He's great, but he's not as great as so many people make him out to me. Almost every WCW match I've seen has some minor awkward botch (The Bossman match in 94 has a bunch) that no one seems to comment on and gives him a free pass. Granted that may be the expert WCW camera crew at work.

 

Underrated overall would be Lex Luger but not really on PWO Jerry. Here I'd be hard pressed to come up with someone who's not getting his due, so I'll throw Eddie Gilbert out there just because we never talk about him it seems.

[JerryvonKramer]

Underrated overall would be Lex Luger but not really on PWO Jerry

Not on PWO Brain, but Luger was slammed hard on the podcast of the guy who started this thread, so the idea that he's universally rated now is just not accurate.

[JaymeFuture]

I'm very strongly leaning towards making the case for Lex as my "underrated" pick on the show, he has a largely negative stigma when people think about him and the case is there to be made against it. Granted, at his lazy worst it may be deserved, but even in 1999 (when it felt like the old man syndrome in WCW painted him in the negative light), his character work as a chickenshit heel with Liz was great.

 

Ron Garvin is such a victim of circumstance it's not even close to being funny. One guy in particular on the show may criticise Garvin, but I'm keen to counteract him on that.

 

I expect Terry Taylor to come up from somebody for underrated.

 

On the fence for the overrated section.

[thebrainfollower]

Luger in 99 was great. I just watched every Raw and PPV from 94 over the last few months and that might be his worst year overall. I think its highlight was giving me a huge high ten when I watched him main event a house show against Crush, I was 15 and interest was fading. I mocked Luger like hell at the time, but the second he came out was so caught up in his undeniable charisma I turned into a Luger fan. And he seemed genuinely happy to see someone screaming like a nut for him.

[kayfabe1984]

I've always felt that the Snuka/Muraco cage match from MSG in over-rated. I watched it on a DVD once and I expected a lot going into it since it was hyped so much. Granted Snuka's dive was nuts but the rest of the match I though was lame. Speaking of Snuka, never really saw what was so great about him in general.

 

As far as under rated guys ... there's a litany to pick from. Someone above mentioned Terry Taylor. He never got a fair shake after being handed the Rooster so I'd go with him. I'm also a big fan of late 80s-early 90s Greg Valentine.

[Stiva]

I'd like to hear someone go to bat for Hardcore Holly as an underrated guy. I'm not going to sit here and say he could have been a top guy or anything but from The Big Shot onwards, he was always, at least, entertaining and by the time, WWECW rolled around, he had perfected the WWE TV style to the point where you knew you were going to get something fun from him. He was a great foil to Crash, had a fun little run opposite Lesnar (though the outcome was never in doubt, of course) and wasn't afraid to lay it in.

[Memphis Mark]

Overated is tough. I hate to knock anybody . Underrated is easy . Dr. Tom Pritchard is my first pick . He could work face , heel or be a tweener. Solid ring work , great story telling and great promos. One of the last guys to come thur the territory and give the proper time to develop his craft

 

Others from the territory are Rip Rogers, Jerry Stubbs , Eric Emery , Ken Lucas , Tony Anthony , Phil Hickerson , Wendell Cooley , and Adrian Street. I would throw Buddy Landal , Dutch Mantell and Tracy Smothers in the mix , but I think they get their due.

[Bigelow34]

I still can't figure out why, but I have always felt Austin/Rock at X7 is overrated. It has nothing to do with the finish, it is just I always feel SOMETHING is lacking when I watch it and I don't know what it is.

[Mad Dog]

Lance Storm tops my overrated list. I don't care how many moves the guy knows or how crisp the execution. The guy is a fucking bore. He has less charisma than the corpse of Giant Gonzalez and his matches are never as good as they should be. I'm trying to think of a a classic Lance Storm match and nothing sticks out to me.

I'll throw Joey Styles out there as overrated too. He gets treated like some announcing God but he was an incredibly limited guy that Heyman really protected.

Underrated. A lot of the guys the WWE got post prime like Hacksaw Jim Duggan and the Bushwhackers. People seem to remember them as shitty workers when they were just winding down and extending their careers with a less demanding style.

I likewise feel the Fantastics are largely forgotten by people when they were one of the best teams of the 80s.

[thebrainfollower]

Bushwhackers definitely. Was Duggan winding down? I thought he started as a pro in 1980 so when he joined the WWF his career was barely entering the peak era for most guys.

[Mad Dog]

Duggan was a late starter because of his football career. So he was 33 or 34 when he got to the WWF.

[BigBadMick]

Overrated: I think everything gets so deconstructed now that there's no sacred cows left.

Underrated: Buddy Roberts is the best professional wrestler who ever lived. I see a lineage from him to Brian Pillman to Dean Ambrose. Hell, all three Freebirds are underrated.

 

My overrated by a long-shot is post-comeback Shawn Michaels. I really don't like his big showcase Wrestlemania matches or the era of endless false finishes and near falls they helped to inculcate. People go on about Taker vs. HBK, I am not at all a fan of those matches and they represent everything I've come to dislike about WWE main event style. A poster here, El-P, has a great phrase:"the self-conscious epic" -- and nothing to me represents that idea more than Taker vs. HBK, or indeed Shawn Michael's face in general in the 21st century. "I love you", fuck off! I might be a voice of one in a sea of 1000s, but there is no way that the Taker matches are *****

 

Underrated? On PWO it's hard to think of anyone who is underrated because this place is all about re-evaluating guys and giving them a fair shake.

 

Sorry to anyone who has heard or read me saying this at least two dozen times before, but "out there" on the world-wide interwebs, it's got to be Ron Garvin. The guy is seen as a joke by many remembered for being the worst world champ and then being the guy we see in WWF feuding with Greg Valentine before jobbing out to everyone. Most kids growing up watching only WWF TV developed the opinion that Garvin was very lame, myself included. But his series of matches with Flair -- the studio match in 85, the title win and the Starrcade 87 match -- are as strong as anyone's, all ***** in my book, and I think there are more than just those three with Flair alone. Garvin was stiff, surprisingly agile, and could work counter-holds on the mat if need be. But it's the level of intensity and brutality in those Flair matches that are exceptional -- I think as stiff as anything you see in All Japan, with no exaggeration. I see the Starrcade match routinely given ratings like ** by Scott Keith and assorted followers, which is obviously just nonsense. Garvin remains probably the single most underrated worker of the 80s. I suspect one or two of the guys on the panel of Jaymes's podcast will think that Garvin sucks.

These two posts make the point that it's difficult to find overrated and underrated wrestlers. I tend to agree - EVERYTHING is obsessively studied and pondered around here.

 

I think, though, Bruiser Brody is overrated in most places and underrated in pwo.

[jpchicago23]

Psicosis 95-99 is hugely underrated for me.

[goc]

It's hard to pick someone for overrated because generally this board has popped most everyone's bubbles on that, but I will pick "pre-WWF" Curt Hennig. Everyone seems to want to paint him as one of the best in the world before WWF but I didn't see it watching the AWA set. I thought he was very good, and obviously capable of doing a lot more than he ever did in WWF but I didn't seem as a "top 10" in the world or even probably the U.S. at that time period. To me, Blackwell, Greg Gagne & pre-Vader Leon White were all bigger revelations" on that set than Hennig.

 

Memphis_Mark had some good names for underrated but Phil Hickerson stood out to me. If he is remembered in "mainstream" wrestling circles at all it is as the fat white guy pretending to be Japanese PY Chu Hi. Phil had a long career and was involved in much better stuff than that goofy character.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's hard to pick someone for overrated because generally this board has popped most everyone's bubbles on that, but I will pick "pre-WWF" Curt Hennig. Everyone seems to want to paint him as one of the best in the world before WWF but I didn't see it watching the AWA set. I thought he was very good, and obviously capable of doing a lot more than he ever did in WWF but I didn't seem as a "top 10" in the world or even probably the U.S. at that time period. To me, Blackwell, Greg Gagne & pre-Vader Leon White were all bigger revelations" on that set than Hennig.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. I actually thought he was at his best as "Cool Curt" after his heel turn, ironically, when he was doing something closer to his Mr. Perfect schtick. Aside from the match with Bock, I can't recall any performances from him as a babyface where I'd say "yes, he was one of the best in the country at this point".

[fxnj]

I agree on Brody having become underrated. I wouldn't call him the greatest brawler ever or anything but I really like the guy's unique aura as this crazy brawler who could go hold-for-hold with the best when he wanted to. I'd call his 3/88 Jumbo a smartly laid out slow burn type match and not something that deserved to get voted the worst match on the AJPW 80's set. He also had some really fun tag work that got left off the set for whatever reason, like the 12/83 match with Jumbo/Tenryu and the 12/84 match with the Funks.

[sek69]

This sounds like me trying to sound contrarian, but I always feit Bret was overrated. Not that he wasn't any good, but the WWF was by and large not that great when he started to get the serious singles push that it made him look 10x as good as he actually was.

[The Chief]

I've been watching a lot of old ECW on the network and my pick for underrated is Mikey Whipwreck. The kid just understood a lot of little things right off the bat and he was always fun to watch. He's having good matches with a wide variety of guys and always delivers.

 

For overrated I would go with Kurt Angle. I know he's no sacred cow around these parts but most people out there think he's one of the greatest of all time. The spotty psychology in his matches gets very annoying.

[Karl]

Underrated - Akira Taue seems to be a guy over the years who never got the kudos I think he should have.

 

Shawn Michaels would be my #1 overrated. I have never been able to see what the fuss was all about. Maybe I have a blind spot, but nothing about him has ever stood out..

[DMJ]

Underrated - I'm gonna go with Christian, only because I think I'd put him up there with Goldust as one of those guys that quietly snuck back into the Top 5 Workers in the WWE when he came back in 09' and proceeded to just be consistently good-to-great. I used to say this about Matt Hardy in 07'-08', but with Christian it may even be more of the truth: "He may not give you the best match of the show, but he'll never give you the worst match of any show." Heel or face, Christian could be relied upon to give you a really good TV match and get the crowd into it no matter who he was facing. That sort of consistency and ability to connect with the audience is something I'd argue very few were able to maintain for the same duration as Christian did, even if he was generally a midcard guy.

 

Overrated - Maybe not around these parts, but I'm going to go with Triple H. Any time I see his name in a "Top 10" of anything, whether its in-ring work or mic skills or finishers, it pains me. I'm not going to say he's terrible because he isn't, but there are just so many North American workers that have entertained me more that I really can't get behind calling him much more than a B+ player.

[Lust Hogan]

Overrated: Chris Jericho. I never understood all of the fuss over him. I think he's very solid and his "Chris Bockwinkle" stuff with Shawn Michaels was great but I think he's WAY overhyped.

 

Underrated: Doom w/Teddy Long. One of my favorite tag teams that seems to fly under the radar along with a great manager that a lot of people seem to dismiss.