Tatsumi Fujinami

[Parties]

He had taped singles matches in the 2005 G1 against Nishimura, Kawada, and Minoru Suzuki, but I've seen none of them.

Him and Nishimura had a match in '07 NOAH against Misawa/Shiozaki that I've watched but remember finding somewhat disappointing for the people involved. Misawa was not really up for treating it as an interpromotional war.

[GOTNW]

I really loved the Kawada match. The NOAH tag was very fun but you've got to keep in mind with Shiozaki being a young lion they had to work it a certain way. And also it being an "interpromotional war" really wouldn't make any sense given the characters of the wrestlers and where they were at that time.

[InYourCase]

So am I going to end up being the high vote on Fujinami? Right now he's my #9 and I could see him sliding into my #5-6.

 

-Have a lot more of his 70's work to watch, but the little I've seen I've enjoyed. Nothing too outstanding yet, but stuff that is decent at the very least.

-Best worker of the 1980's

-Consistently good through 1998. I've really liked the two matches I've seen from him tagging with Hashimoto. One match vs. Nagata & Nakanishi and another vs. Tenryu & Koshinaka.

-Need to watch any pimped work (the Nishimura match might be it?) from the 2000's.

-Loving him as a tag/multi-man match worker. His offense just seems to fit into those environments. There's always a sense of urgency with him, which I really appreciate.

-He plays a great ace. Not like Misawa, in the sense that he's untouchable, but he's a fiery babyface that never quits and obviously the New Japan crowd loves that. Seeing him in the WAR feud has been cool. He's older, but his passion is still there.

 

While his peaks in the 80's are much higher, I've enjoyed 90's Fujinami. His stuff in the WAR feud, especially, has been quite enjoyable. Fujinami & Liger vs. Tenryu & Kitahara from 8/3/93 is a ton of fun. Then, of course, there's the G1 Final with Hase a few weeks later. 1993 was a really strong year for Fuji, which is crazy, considering that his best work was done a decade prior with Choshu.

 

The Choshu/Fujinami series was the first thing I watched when I started this project. Why? I have no idea, but I'll need to go back and rewatch all of those matches because I'm an idiot and I didn't take notes on those matches. All I remember is that I loved most of those matches. If I like those a ton of rewatch, this is a guy that I could end up ranking above Flair, Mochizuki, and/or Hashimoto.

[JerryvonKramer]

-Best worker of the 1980's

 

This is a pretty strong assertion when Flair and Jumbo both exist and it shouldn't go unchecked without further elaboration, because the arguments are far from obvious or self-evident. Needs fleshing out.

[GOTNW]

So one can have an opinion that differs from your cannon unles they scrutinize the 50 Jumbo/Flair matches you gave four stars, break them down in five paragraph reviews and then do the same for every "other wrestler" match they thought was great? Fujinami as "best worker of the 1980s" and even "best wrestler ever" aren't new ideas.

[JerryvonKramer]

How about piping down and letting the guy flesh out his case.

[GOTNW]

But why would Fujinami be a guy for whom you'd need to make a case anyway unlike the aforementioned grapplers? His peak has been analyzed and covered in depth already. Seems pretty different than just asking someone to elaborate because the notion of ranking him that highly intrigues you.

[JerryvonKramer]

Alright, have it your way, let's not find out. Dum de dum.

[GOTNW]

Didn't expect you to be above taking things out of context because you had no proper reply.

[JerryvonKramer]

Listen, I've heard Dylan talk about it. I know what Childs thinks, it's In Your Face's views I was interested in.

 

But since you've decided to be his white knight here, I guess we might never know. Please don't forget that this whole deal is about the discussion. If you haven't noticed, I've been watching Fujinmai in the 80s too. We watch footage, draw conclusions and talk about them.

 

You should know there's no agendas here. A good few of us are friends on Facebook and often would have exactly the same discussion on there as would happen here. Only I guess there I don't have the One Man Punch to reckon with. Ho hum.

[GOTNW]

Completely missing my point. One of Loss' points about PWO was that he wanted it to attract as many different viewpoints and opinions and your attitude seems like a very poisonous one for a board aiming to achieve that.

 

But since you've decided to be his white knight here, I guess we might never know

If you, supposedly a professor, actually bothered to read my posts properly instead of taking things out of context to fit you agenda then you wouldn't have come to this conclusion. Look, it's right here:

 

Seems pretty different than just asking someone to elaborate because the notion of ranking him that highly intrigues you.

Let's break it down once again:

 

because the arguments are far from obvious or self-evident. Needs fleshing out.

Flair and Jumbo are mostly peak candidates as is Fujinami. Fujinami's peak has been covered in several projects (both the before the 80s japan and the DVDVR 80s set). How is he any different of a candidate? Failing to see something so outrageous about this opinion that would call for your ridiculous phrasing.

 

You should know there's no agendas here. A good few of us are friends on Facebook and often would have exactly the same discussion on there as would happen here. Only I guess there I don't have the One Man Punch to reckon with. Ho hum.

You can bring that up once you stop making references to all the fifty year old art you like. Want me to replace One Punch Man with Camus so you can follow?

[JerryvonKramer]

[InYourCase]

 

-Best worker of the 1980's

This is a pretty strong assertion when Flair and Jumbo both exist and it shouldn't go unchecked without further elaboration, because the arguments are far from obvious or self-evident. Needs fleshing out.

 

You are really quite charming.

 

He's better than Jumbo, for sure. I don't care for most of Jumbo's work before the Choshu feud. The slow, methodical NWA-style tag matches don't do a whole lot for me, especially when Jumbo is working them. Part of that, I think, is that I was introduced to 1990 ass-kicker Jumbo before I saw his younger years. 6/8/83 with Flair drags for me. It's not what I'm looking for in a Jumbo match.

 

Fujinami starts off the decade as a dynamic junior capable of getting great matches from Dynamite Kid and quickly becomes this incredible, ace-like babyface while battling Riki Choshu. Their series is excellent. Both guys are outstanding. Fujinami gets a solid match out of Inoki 9/19/85 and I loathe most Inoki singles matches. Fujinami's work against the UWF crew can't go unmentioned. He bumps and bleeds his ass off against Fujiwara in the 5/1/86 Gauntlet Match and continues selling like a mad man against Maeda. They go about five minutes before the referee stops the match for Fujinami's health. Their rematch on 6/12/86 perfectly plays off that finish. He finishes off the decade working really, really well with Bam Bam and a really young Vader.

 

Better seller, better bumper, better ace, better babyface, better matches. That's why Fujinami was better than Jumbo in the 80's. This isn't a new theory.

 

I love Flair, much more than Jumbo, and while there's still a lot of Flair that I need to watch before my ballot is due, I don't have a problem saying that Fujinami was the best worker of the 80's.

[concrete1992]

Since we know Parv reads each post meticulously then I believe "In Your Face" was rather uncalled for.

 

Also, good post. Interested in checking out MORE Fujinami now.

[DR Ackermann]

Why are all the kiddos ganging up on old man JVK?

[JerryvonKramer]

It's payback for all the times I backchatted grandpa jdw

[Parties]

Fujinami > Jumbo is pervasive thinking post-DVDVR New Japan/All Japan 80s sets. Side by side Fujinami emerged as the better ace with better matches and more variety. Flair rankings will be all over the map based on conversations here. I'll have Fujinami narrowly above Flair, but both are top 10 all-time and I expect Flair will rank considerably higher than Fujinami in the final totals. Flair will do well on everyone's list, unless you're really contrarian about his work (I think Grimmas is the prime example here if memory serves?). It strikes me as more interesting to debate Fujinami on his own merits rather than making everything a conversation about one's relation to Jumbo/Flair/old chestnuts, but c'est la vie. Fujinami's a guy I could see people underselling, or dismissing entirely if '78-'90 New Japan isn't their scene.

[JerryvonKramer]

I should make it clear that I'm not dismissing Fujinami at all. He's consistently impressed me through four discs of 80s NJPW now. World class, certainly.

 

I still haven't seen him have a match on the level of Jumbo vs. Tenryu or Jumbo vs. Flair or Jumbo vs. Kerry or any of the Jumbo / Choshu tags though, but then I have a lot of discs left.

 

I'm just interested to have an idea what the case is for him. He should finish well for me, but I'm not yet seeing him in Jumbo / Flair bracket through to mid-84.

[Loss]

I think the biggest case for Fujinami over Flair is his actual wrestling ability -- his ability to mechanically work the mat and execute moves is top notch. Everything he does just looks so good. Flair and Jumbo are not slouches there by any means, but Fujinami is probably the best pure *wrestler* of the three. He also has far wider variety in his best matches than either of those guys because he excelled both as a junior heavyweight and a heavyweight, in throwaway singles matches, in blood feuds, in tag matches and multi-mans, against opponents regarded as great and against opponents not-so-regarded as great. He wouldn't be my pick for that spot but I think that's his case. He also worked in more spots on the card while Flair and Jumbo were more consistently main event, so we got to see him in multiple roles.

[JerryvonKramer]

I need to see more to do BIGLAV, but I'd agree definitely that his base rating would be higher than Flair's. I have Flair as an 8, Fujinami could do it all, and is a 9 possibly pushing 10 with a +1 for "explosiveness".

 

I have Jumbo as a 10 too, but I know folks disagree with me on that.

[ohtani's jacket]

When people talk about Fujinami being an ace are they talking about his juniors days or his IWGP Heavyweight run? I don't see the argument for him being a better ace than Tsuruta. He absolutely blows Jumbo away on the mat. There is no way Jumbo should be a 10 with matwork figured in.

 

FWIW, I don't think getting a great match out of Dynamite Kid should be figured into Fujinami's case. Dynamite Kid was a good worker.

[JerryvonKramer]

Suffice it to say that matwork does not figure into my ratings. By which I mean it's possible to get a base score of 10 without being any good at it.

[ohtani's jacket]

Blasphemy.

[WingedEagle]

Suffice it to say that matwork does not figure into my ratings. By which I mean it's possible to get a base score of 10 without being any good at it.

 

What about an over-reliance on it?

[Microstatistics]

The one criticism I have of Fujinami is that his character work is not as strong as some of the other GOAT contenders. If I used the JvK's rating model, I would give him 6-7 for Intangibles compared to 8+ Casas, Tenryu etc would receive. It is the one thing that is keeping him out of my Top 5 right now (though that could change as I watch more).