Grimmas Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Discuss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I think I can find room for him on my list. He is my favourite wrestler since Bret Hart retired, so that should count for something. I really need to re-watch some of his indie stuff to get a fair idea, however, I am big on his WWE run. The Cena matches, the Rey matches, the Jeff Hardy feud. All awesome stuff. The Brock Lesnar match too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moazzam23 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 A lot of his indie stuff hasn't aged well, but I'm still a fan of the series with Joe. I agree that he's had plenty of great matches and feuds in WWE to warrant a spot. What were his best two year periods, 2009-10 or 2011-12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I doubt he makes my list. Has a bunch of great matches but I don't often find him particularly compelling in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I doubt he makes my list. Has a bunch of great matches but I don't often find him particularly compelling in the ring. He does have the great matches, that's for sure. I think the argument for him is the small things he does. His character work is tremendous in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 He won't make my list. Massively overrated. Seems to only put his heart and soul into something if he thinks he is being booked precisely as he should be booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Probably going to be quite high on my list. One of a small group of guys who kept my fandom alive during a period where YouTube wasn't what it is and everything readily available was awful. One of the few wrestlers whose character comes through in almost everything they do in the ring, jumping up several levels beyond what his matches would be otherwise. And, for all the knocks his in ring work takes from a lot of people, there is a pretty solid list of wrestlers who had their best matches against Punk, and I think that might end up being a big part of my voting criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Can you list them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Can you list them? Off the top of my head, and obviously without going back to watch anything, I would say Samoa Joe, Jimmy Rave (an admittedly low bar, but I thought Punk carried him to a very good series which has stayed in my head as such for about a decade), John Cena, Rey Mysterio (at least in WWE, as I am not huge on Rey in this period as I've never particularly enjoyed the way they booked him, but I thought Punk and him meshed fantastically), his WM match with Taker is my favourite of the streak, Brent Albright in OVW (making him look so good in the process that I could never not be disappointed in Albright after the fact even after I knew how dull he was) , and possibly Daniel Bryan at Over the Limit (I think), though Bryan's summerslam match with Cena might top that for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm with Loss. Punk is a big match worker and his whole is more than the sum of his parts. But by the same token, his television matches can be pretty wretched with spotty execution and a lack of a wrestling hook to the character that matches the 'best in the world' gimmick. He doesn't stand out bell-to-bell for me and doesn't have a role to play in most matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I wouldn't say most of those guys had their best matches with Punk, but they did have great matches with him, and his greatest hits list will be enough to make me consider him. I give him credit for being a guy who put thought into making his programs and big matches great, when he was invested in them. He wasn't a great physical talent, and I'm not sure a lot of his indy work helps him in this company. I'm not going to dismiss him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I wouldn't say most of those guys had their best matches with Punk, but they did have great matches with him, and his greatest hits list will be enough to make me consider him. I give him credit for being a guy who put thought into making his programs and big matches great, when he was invested in them. He wasn't a great physical talent, and I'm not sure a lot of his indy work helps him in this company. I'm not going to dismiss him though. I definitely agree about him not being a great physical talent. Like Lawler though, I think the quality he produced in spite of that is a mark in his favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Consistency is a big factor when it comes to rating a guy's career. We're not just looking at their best stuff and that's the biggest hurdle for Punk so i don't think he will wind up on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 spotty execution and a lack of a wrestling hook to the character that matches the 'best in the world' gimmick. A bit off topic but the "best in the world" thing really was pretty funny. He wasn't booked as the top guy, wasn't sold as a killer like say a Ryback was, didn't work a particularly dazzling style or present himself as a technical master or anything ... it had nothing to do with his gimmick or character, it was just something he said a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Consistency is a big factor when it comes to rating a guy's career. We're not just looking at their best stuff and that's the biggest hurdle for Punk so i don't think he will wind up on my list. This might be a point that had to be taken into consideration for anyone who started/hit their prime since 2000 or so. There is so much more of their matches available compared to earlier wrestlers who could have off nights/feuds/tours/runs and there is no video evidence of it. So, with those older wrestlers we're often left with only the big matches/those someone felt were worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 spotty execution and a lack of a wrestling hook to the character that matches the 'best in the world' gimmick. A bit off topic but the "best in the world" thing really was pretty funny. He wasn't booked as the top guy, wasn't sold as a killer like say a Ryback was, didn't work a particularly dazzling style or present himself as a technical master or anything ... it had nothing to do with his gimmick or character, it was just something he said a lot. Its funny, I was watching people for the DVDVR March Madness tournament and when I saw Kana for the first time it was like 'This is the worker CM Punk should be' in terms of style so he could match his work with his promos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Trying to be a "best in the world" gimmick and living up to it is pretty stupid in the first place, so deducting points because he wasn't what he said he was, when there's been plenty of guys throughout the history of wrestling, is pretty dumb. I'll deduct points for coasting and only performing in big spots, but when he performed in big spots, there were few better, so you have to figure out if his big matches really meant much in the long run, I guess. I don't know if I could keep him off my Top 100, but I wouldn't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I wouldn't have any other Indy guy from the last 15 years above him except for Daniel Bryan. With that said, that is a lot of luchadors and Memphis guys to overcome. Also, I think his 2003 is really under-rated. Rewatched the Terry Funk match that got shit on because of the bad finish but that match was a feather in his cap. ROH fans were not used to the type of booking (for better or worse) so it gets shit on. His feud with Raven was compelling because it felt real (even though you knew it wasn't) and entertaining without the MOTY stuff. Add the MOTYC stuff that came after and he has a good case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 The guy he reminds me most of wasn't even nominated. Shane Douglas. Promos with too many shoot elements but never really got the same heat for them the way Douglas did. Far too often seemed to have only one speaking tone. Almost like he always sounded sarcastic even when he wasn't being sarcastic. Charismatic in the ring. That is sometimes negated by moving too far into comical selling with far too exaggerated facial expressions. A lot of what he did just looks sloppy due to the total lack of athleticism. He was Savvy though and does seem to understand what makes a good match. Which is why he can overcome his obvious shortcomings at times. Just far too often he is just mailing it in and is clearly disinterested. Has had some great matches which more than I can say for most wrestlers I dislike. He just doesn't have the ability to rise above the material like Daniel Bryan or Dean Ambrose. Unfortunately that comes with the job when working for the WWE. Only really ever delivered at the level of the person he is facing. Don't think there was ever a time where I would have considered him in the top 5 workers in the company. There are very few times where I go into a match expecting a ***** match. I give him credit for delivering it the one time I had the expectation. The Money in the Bank match with Cena. Don't think he was the best guy in that match but that really isn't a major knock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'd put Punk as the #1 "indy" guy even above Bryan, but that's purely selfish reasons since as a Chicagoan I've been a Punk mark since the beginning. Top level ability to connect to crowds both as a heel and a face. Strong feuds in ROH/the indies and some of the best WWE feuds in the last 6-7 years with his work vs. Cena, vs. Rey, vs. Jeff Hardy. Bryan is a better and more consistent wrestler, all told, but I'll admit I tend to put peak performance as high or higher than overall consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Punk has a laundry list of very good-great matches against a wide variety of opponents. I wonder if some people should revisit Punk's earlier babyface work. I remember him having very good matches with the likes of Umaga, JBL and even Kane. For me, I need to look at his indie work. I think he'll make my list, but I need a better overview of his whole career to see just how high he can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted October 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 His WWE run is GWE terretory, however I need to re-watch his indie run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Punk has a laundry list of very good-great matches against a wide variety of opponents. I wonder if some people should revisit Punk's earlier babyface work. I remember him having very good matches with the likes of Umaga, JBL and even Kane. For me, I need to look at his indie work. I think he'll make my list, but I need a better overview of his whole career to see just how high he can go. During his ECW run, he was MUCH more likely to have a good match with someone like Kane who would rein him in than someone like Jericho or Benjamin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I don't think it was a case of Kane and his ilk reining him in, so much as one of Punk's major strengths as a worker, in my opinion, is working from underneath against big men. That was a trend that we saw throughout his WWE run, thinking of the really strong series with Henry, and at least one really good match against Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 It could be that Benjamin was just terrible. I really hate that Jericho KOTR match too though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.00c68798e2502c92a7da65280cf7def4.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.