Hiroshi Tanahashi

[NintendoLogic]

Savio Vega? Takao Omori? Yoshinari Ogawa?

[W2BTD]

Savio Vega? Takao Omori? Yoshinari Ogawa?

 

Sting

 

Wolfie D

 

I mean, WOLFIE D

 

C'mon.

[Jimmy Redman]

Hey PG-13 were awesome.

 

But this is all probably better served in the Shawn thread, or at least out of here.

[Matt D]

Wolfie D was one of the more valid choices on the list, actually.

[goodhelmet]

PG-13 were pretty awesome.

[ohtani's jacket]

I think the general point is that there's nothing wrong with ranking Shawn outside of a 1996 Top 50, Tanahashi outside of a 2013 Top 50, or anyone outside of an anything Top whatever, if you really feel that 50 other wrestlers are better and can back up your opinion.

 

That's if you really feel there are 50 wrestlers better and don't just hate a guy and are trying to prove a point.

[Jimmy Redman]

Yeah but I don't think whoever it was who made the original comment (Grimmas?) was trolling. He just mentioned that he ranked 50 guys ahead of him in a certain year. I don't see any malice or trolling in that. You may completely disagree with his assessment, but that doesn't mean it's still not a valid opinion.

[ohtani's jacket]

Sure, I don't think it's malicious. I just find it a little hard to swallow.

[Alan4L]

I doubt I would list Tanahashi but at the same time, think it's completely reasonable for him to pop up in some top 10s and top 20s. If you like what he does, he's been doing it at a high level for a long time now. He's earned a grudging respect from me in recent years. When it's time for him to perform on a big show, the guy works his ass off and absolutely carries himself like a star. I might not love the modern NJ main event style, but a lot of people do, and he played a big part in defining it. He's not some mindless twit reeling off moves; he's a performer who has to be reckoned with if you want to understand the state of the art in 2014.

Really well said

[WingedEagle]

 

I doubt I would list Tanahashi but at the same time, think it's completely reasonable for him to pop up in some top 10s and top 20s. If you like what he does, he's been doing it at a high level for a long time now. He's earned a grudging respect from me in recent years. When it's time for him to perform on a big show, the guy works his ass off and absolutely carries himself like a star. I might not love the modern NJ main event style, but a lot of people do, and he played a big part in defining it. He's not some mindless twit reeling off moves; he's a performer who has to be reckoned with if you want to understand the state of the art in 2014.

Really well said

 

 

Beat me to it. I love what Tanahashi has done the past few years. Maybe unrealistically so, maybe not. But this is the fairest criticism I've seen of him.

[MJH]

Third-ed (assuming that's a word...?).

[dawho5]

I would absolutely agree as well. It's hard to fault Tanahashi for the aspects of his matches that are demanded by the promotion he wrestles in.

[Matt D]

Do we feel the same about John Zandig? If not, why not?

[soup23]

Zandig never presented himself like a star to the extent of Tanahashi. He also in no way defined a style like Tanahashi has. Jun Kasai is a better comparison and I could see a death match junkie nominating someone like Kasai.

[Matt D]

Not for nomination's sake, just in general? Do we reduce for style?

[dawho5]

I try to look at stuff like modern NJPW and see strengths/weaknesses of the workers, how they adapt to different opponents, etc., when I watch. That's mainly because I don't care for the style. But I won't say that Tanahashi is an awful wrestler because of that. He's clearly a very gifted performer who just happens to wrestle within a system that I don't like (and to be honest he's not exactly suited for and somehow makes it work anyway, which makes me respect the guy quite a bit). I'm not saying I'd put him in my top 20, but he'd definitely get a vote.

[soup23]

I think the argument centers around tastes too much and will delve into respecting a style and someone being successful doing it while not liking it. I think Tanahashi absolutely can be lumped with Toyota in this regard and my final 100 will definitely have Toyota on it and more than likely Tanahashi. Tana definitely has quirks that irk me and deviate wrestling further from a style of my enjoyment. I don't think I have ever seen a great prolonged mat sequence from Tanahashi focused around wrenching of holds and escapes like Regal vs. Arn from SuperBrawl. I do think he blows through his finishers to a big degree at points. I also think the intricacy of his epic finishing runs can devalue some of the table setting being presented. This could be a knock for All Japan in the 1990's but they also did sprint at times hence a 10 minute Kawada vs. Kobashi 1998 Carnival match that ends in the stretch plum and the 1/20/97 Akiyama vs. Taue upset. On the contrary, Tanahashi has a legion of English speaking fans in a way I don't think we have seen since the rise of Three Musketeers. Just because everything someone does isn't to my liking doesn't mean I can't enjoy the artistic thought being put into the performance by the performer. Tanahashi based on his book quotes understands his strengths as a wrestler and that is commendable.

[Matt D]

A wrestler giving the fans what they want is a very, very tricky thing to weigh in all this.

[soup23]

it certainly is. I do feel like I have enjoyed Tanahashi enough that he won't go on my ballot as a "nod" to his high acclaim elsewhere but due to my enjoyment of his work. For instance, I thought he was splendid in the King of Pro Wrestling match vs. Okada last year and the Ishii match from the G-1.

[dawho5]

I've liked most Tanahashi matches I've watched. And most of the time when there's something I don't like, it's something that shows up in every other NJPW match from this era. So to me, that says that Tanahashi is doing a lot of things right. He is just working in modern NJPW which has some conventions I don't care for. Now the big question is, do I like the work being done by 100 other wrestlers enough to knock Tanahashi down off of the 100? If that's a no, I won't keep him on just to have a modern NJPW guy on the list. But at the same time I won't hold where he works against him if I see that the majority of the things I don't like in his matches are promotion-wide. I'll chalk that up to not liking the style while still appreciating how good Tanahashi is.

[Shining Wiz]

He's going to rank high on the list. The willingness to wrestle differently as needed, and the intelligent progressions of his bigger series of matches are things I value a lot. I can get why he doesn't float everyone's boat - mostly because he's almost the antithesis of a Japanese ace traditionally, and the inevitable backlash of being pimped as THE MAN by so many - but to me he's been a top 5 guy in the world easily for a number of years.

[ohtani's jacket]

A wrestler giving the fans what they want is a very, very tricky thing to weigh in all this.

 

It is tricky, but Tanahashi connects with his audience on a level that not everyone gets. It's like the whole Misawa stoicism thing where you have these fans coming in with their heel fan pro-wrestling fan sensibilities thinking Kawada or Taue are better when just about every guy in Korakuen wanted to be Misawa. Misawa was (to some extent) the epitome of the ideal Japanese male. Similarly, Japanese fans find Tanahashi cool in a way that I can't understand with the air guitar and all that shit. The thing is you don't have to find Tanahashi's air guitar cool (because frankly it's not), but you can't write off the fact that it's over or try to bend it to your will by suggesting ways it could be done better. You just have to accept that it's something from another culture that's slightly foreign; but if you start trying to rate that sort of thing into your list objectively then it's going to be a pretty boring process. I don't really see the need for neutrality. Just a concession that in some cases the fault lies with the viewer and not the product.

[Matt D]

I'm not saying this with Tanahashi necessarily, but just in general: I can appreciate someone who connects with the crowd and not with me, but given the sheer number of great nominees on the table, that will very likely make that person an honorable mention at best.

[funkdoc]

i feel like a lot of people around here don't quite "get" tanahashi's persona. some may be subconsciously docking him for that, not buying into him as a tough guy? not sure but i could see it perhaps.

 

he's basically doing a less outlandish version of J-Rock from what i can tell, so it would make sense that the crowds there find him cool. quite a few things we think of as "wussy" or whatnot come off much more "badass" in japan, and tana is a very good example of that.

[ohtani's jacket]

When I think of J-Rock I think of visual kei -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_kei which is much more outlandish than Tanahashi. I would argue the thing that people don't get about Tanahashi is that women (including my wife) and even men for that matter find him extremely handsome and that he has an attractiveness that makes him popular. Nobuhiko Takada was similar in the 90s and Jumbo Tsuruta in the 70s.