strobogo Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 I didn't realize he was 47. Thought he was a bit younger than that. It's wild that the NJ dads from the previous generation can go harder in the ring than Tana at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Stump Puller Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, strobogo said: I didn't realize he was 47. Thought he was a bit younger than that. It's wild that the NJ dads from the previous generation can go harder in the ring than Tana at this stage. Honestly, it all comes down to Tana having the frog splash for a finish more than anything else. Dude wrecked his knees with it, very ironic given his ties to Muto. NJPW dads also wrestled more like conventional heavyweights to boot (more strikes/slams) which might've been better for their bodies in the long run. Tana was a Shawn Michaels guy so he was never going to fit that kind of style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 HBK adapted as he got older to the point where he could come back and do everything he used to do a decade later albeit a bit slower. Tana is just a physical wreck and has been for the past 5ish years. Dude can't even do the slingblade anymore. If he's going to stay working in the ring, I feel like he should embrace being old and his body going to shit and stay in mid to lower card stuff where he doesn't do much off the mat. Maybe he could even gain some extra weight and become a fat guy wrestler in his twilight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Dolph Ziggler is the NJPW Global Champ, and Matt Riddle is the NJPW World TV Champ. EVIL is still hanging around. This company is cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Not that I could give less than a flying fuck at this moment really, but SHO also beat Despy for the IWGP Jr. title. So basically, you got two House of Torture champs. One beating the awesome Despy, the other beating New New Muskeeters Shota Umino (when is that guy showing up in AEW anyway, can't get booked any worse than this). You've got an entire year of overpushing David Finlay like he's Jeff Jarrett in WCW in 2000 so he gets beat by Nick Nemeth. You've got Matt Riddle (gross) winning another one of the hundreds title they got there. Sure hope the door is kept forbidden for that mofo. Hey, another SANADA snoozefest main event tomorrow. If I'm Coach TK, I'm working in getting a relationship with NOAH or something, because NJPW is turning into a joke. This has such early 00's feel of a company going off the rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 I hope 3 of the 5-10 yearly matches Danielson is gonna have after his full time contract expires are in New Japan because short term, there's nothing that can bring me back. Someone @ me when they finally decide to give the new kids a real push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, El-P said: If I'm Coach TK, I'm working in getting a relationship with NOAH or something, because NJPW is turning into a joke. This has such early 00's feel of a company going off the rails. NOAH or AJPW would be cool because I feel like they're a lot less familiar with the North American crowd. Most of a blank slate to build guys up instead of bringing in someone that already has a lot of expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 I'll probably stick around through the G1 in case Tsuji, Umino and Uemura are rocket strapped and deliver the goods, but between the defections and booking decisions its getting harder and harder to justify an investment in World. Especially when they stripped down the archives with the recent relaunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Absolutely dire results today. It baffles me that with Okada and Ospreay gone they think House of Torture and former WWE guys will fix everything. Imagine if they had actually strapped the rocket to Tsuji from the get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic Dragon Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Unpopular opinions incoming. There is nothing wrong with how Sho won the title. He is a HEEL, he should win the title in a dishonorable fashion. Plus this way Despe is somewhat protected because he can say he wasn't truly beaten. Same with EVIL retaining. Shota wasn't "punked" he overcame getting beaten down by the entire HoT and needed to be rammed into exposed steel bolts to be defeated. Plus without a midcard title restricting his booking, he's free to go deep in the NJC. Speaking of the NJC, Finlay, who may I remind y'all went to the finals last year, is also poised for another strong run now that he doesn't have to build to another title defense. Putting the belts on Nemeth and Riddle respectively makes sense when you remember they booked a 10,000 seat venue for Chicago. It's perfectly reasonable for NJPW/Bushiroad officials to believe that these former WWE talents, men known to the American wrestling audience, would help move tickets. Not saying they're right but I don't blame them for thinking it. Also considering that the stated goal of the Global title is to be defended away from NJPW, putting the strap on a free agent like Nemeth does make sense. Likewise the TV title could now appear on shows for current partner MLW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 It was even worse in execution than it looked reading the results. NJPW content peaked with the opener, which was ZSJ vs Nagata. Best match of the night was Shirakawa vs Iwatani. Both House of Torture title matches was the usual awful boring repetitive bullshit, the Jr. title match being extra-specially awful even for a shit finish. This stuff was terrible four years ago. Matt "Lawsuit was settled" Riddle seems to be an excellent worker still. But whatever. Gross anyway. Nick Nemeth struck me as one of these "Hey, he's really excellent. By 10's WWE standards" guys, kinda like Cardona before he actually became fun as the King of the Indies. Nowhere near what you'd expect from a NJPW main event worker. Finlay, who's not an elite worker by any means (he's really good though), looked ten times better than he did. At this point I don't even see what AEW is getting with Forbidden Door, unless they give Naito, who's way past his prime, a big dream single match and get Takagi, Taichi and ZSJ (Ishii is popping up on random AEW TV shows, so he's nothing special in that context). No wonder Okada and Ospreay are leaving. Gedo and his idiotic US-like booking fetish is completely washed up. This company badly needs a structural change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 I did not even realize before Meltz mentioned it that it means it's Naito vs fucking SHO at the 52 Anniversary show. Instead of Naito vs Despy, which actually was quite compelling and would probably been at worst excellent. Instead, fucking SHO from House of Torture. What a pathetic main event. Poor Naito. This guy can never get a decent title run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Is it too soon to start a "Kazuchika Okada: Territory Killer" narrative? I know the real culprit is Gedo but Okada breaking every single record in company history, not really passing the torch to anyone and going away is just too brutal to not make jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Is it too soon to start a "Kazuchika Okada: Territory Killer" narrative? It would be ridiculous. Okada (following Tana's momentum) got NJPW his best era since the 90's. Gedo is to blame for becoming a shitty booker, not building up the next generation fast enough, putting all his eggs on foreigners whom, in a global context, would be grabbed up by WWE, then AEW too, pushing scrubs like EVIL and SANADA to main event spots and so on. And yeah, not having his boy do jobs on the ay out. Because that part is indeed pretty fucking funny, don't get me wrong. "Hey, bye NJPW, I'll never come back". The truth is that NJPW has been cold for awhile now. Okada did not change anything to this fact. But Okada workin' Jumbo style against the Young Generation would have been awesome. The issue with this is, it was a fantasy. Nothing indicates that's where it was gonna go, considering Gedo's shithead booking of this last year. Kinda feel bad for Naito. Not only he is getting a lame-ass reign with rematch with SANADA and fucking SHO next, but the pressure is basically now on him alone, and he's way past his physical prime. David Finlay is a fine higher mid-card wrestler. He's not AJ Styles, nor Omega, nor Jay White, nor Ospreay, by any metrics (and yeah, the comparison is just ridiculously unfair, but there it is). ZSJ should probably be given a reign as IWGP champ. If anything, it would be glorious to see, even though I'm not sure he would get over at that level like Ospreay was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Stump Puller Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Is it too soon to start a "Kazuchika Okada: Territory Killer" narrative? I know the real culprit is Gedo but Okada breaking every single record in company history, not really passing the torch to anyone and going away is just too brutal to not make jokes. Ngl I don't like Okada or the overtly embarrassing trends he brought with him and his formulas but the idea that "passing the torch" is a offence put to him is beyond silly, especially given what came before. Baba didn't pass the torch; Jumbo was more of a peer to him, still lost every singles match they had together (or drew) by the time Baba did start eating L's it was well past anyone caring Jumbo gave *a* win to Misawa, went over all the other times and retired without passing any torch Inoki held the torch for long enough that Fujinami beating him didn't matter despite the momentous occasion Hashimoto kept beating all of the young guys until death Takada kept his own belt for pretty much the entirety of the UWFI to the point where it arguably killed the promotion etc etc. It's so rare that you get a clean transition between generations (Nagata/Tana) that I don't think it should be held against the guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Okada might be indirectly responsible in that Gedo drew the wrong lessons from his booking. Most bookers probably would have panicked and shifted gears after the debut of the Rainmaker was a disaster, but Gedo stayed the course and it ended up paying major dividends. The experience seems to have taught him to trust his gut above all else and not be discouraged by real-time feedback, which might explain why he continues to push EVIL and the House of Torture seemingly beyond all reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Okada caught fire after a few months. We're FOUR years into House of Torture. Gedo is just way too set in his ways and/or listening to the wrong people. The feedback from Uemura vs Tsuji hair match has been pretty underwhelming too. Haven't watched it, won't watch it, but apparently Tsuji did not set the world on fire this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Stump Puller Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 HoT is a solid native heel act much in the same vein as Voodoo Murders and co before it, it's a good formula for babyfaces to work with much better than watching guys like uemura/tsuji do shitty homogenised "epics" for a hair v hair match anyway; that kind of stuff just absolutely does not rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 15 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Is it too soon to start a "Kazuchika Okada: Territory Killer" narrative? I know the real culprit is Gedo but Okada breaking every single record in company history, not really passing the torch to anyone and going away is just too brutal to not make jokes. Bubba, you are reaching Skip Bayless levels of bad takes for the sake of discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Okada might be indirectly responsible in that Gedo drew the wrong lessons from his booking. Most bookers probably would have panicked and shifted gears after the debut of the Rainmaker was a disaster, but Gedo stayed the course and it ended up paying major dividends. The experience seems to have taught him to trust his gut above all else and not be discouraged by real-time feedback, which might explain why he continues to push EVIL and the House of Torture seemingly beyond all reason. I don't know, it took like two months for Okada to overcome his lackluster re-debut. By the Korakuen match with Naito people were more than ok with his mega push. If anything, the lesson would've been "if they don't turn it around ASAP, they ain't it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Ma Stump Puller said: HoT is a solid native heel act much in the same vein as Voodoo Murders and co before it, it's a good formula for babyfaces to work with Is it? Suwama would be the only real success story out of that stable and he basically had to wait for Akiyama to return to get real momentum (which was years after he left the stable). And Kento's rise -which is the only real "star" All Japan has been able to produce in the past decade- had nothing to do with Voodoo Murders either. I feel like the heel stable that relies on cheating and fuckery hasn't worked in Japan in long ass time, fans tend to hate the concept and no one really ends up ripping any meaningful benefits. The exception would be Bullet Club, which had either very charismatic or "famous" foreigners is in charge when the stable worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Jmare007 said: Bubba, you are reaching Skip Bayless levels of bad takes for the sake of discussion LOL I know! But it's all in jest. I usually pull those ridiculous talking points out of my butt *precisely* because it's a way of getting other users, usually more knowledgeable than me, to engage. However I must say that Misawa beating Jumbo THAT one time (and making him tap at Budokan, which the commentary put over huge, saying "Misawa has once again become a man at Budokan") was everything he needed to become THE guy. I do think that Omega leaving to form AEW threw a wrench on NJPW's booking. He was placed as Okada's equal, more or less. As for heel groups, I can only think of Suzuki-Gun in NOAH around 2015 and getting all the damn belts. It was... not good, as far as my memory goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 24 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: As for heel groups, I can only think of Suzuki-Gun in NOAH around 2015 and getting all the damn belts. It was... not good, as far as my memory goes. Oh yeah, that whole thing was a disaster. The few loyal fans that were still chugging along hated it so much they stopped going to shows and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 34 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: I do think that Omega leaving to form AEW threw a wrench on NJPW's booking. He was placed as Okada's equal, more or less Yup. Ah, the good ol' times of Elite haterz back then who acted like Omega leaving meant nothing, that he was overrated and never was a factor, that NJPW was doing exactly the same if not better without him. When you look back at it, NJPW peaked in the 10's with Okada vs Tanahashi, the Naito craze and finally Okada vs Omega. As far as the House of Torture, it's the shittiest, most painfully dumb, boring and ineffective shitbag stuff I've watched in pro-wrestling in years. And I watched NWA Samhain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Jack Perry shows up in NJPW as an outsider with an anti-AEW gimmick. Eh, that's interesting. Jack Perry debuts in NJPW. Join House of Torture. *facepalm* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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