Fantastic Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Lesnar vs. Mir II drew 1,600,000 buys Wrestlemania 28 drew 1,217,000 buys Mayweather vs. De La Hoya drew 2,400,000 buys The three biggest drawing PPV events in the history of MMA, Pro Wrestling, and Boxing. Boxing clearly wins in popularity, having broken the 2 million buys threshold on more than one occasion. So what do professional wrestling and MMA need to do to outdraw Mayweather? "Champion vs. Champion" "WWE vs. UFC" "The Rematch Of The Century" "WWE World Heavyweight Champion" Brock Lesnar vs. "UFC World Heavyweight Champion" Cain Velasquez - Co-Promoted by WWE and UFC (which immediately puts this ever happening to bed) - The contest itself would be a shoot (referred to by WWE as "MMA rules", rather than openly admitting that their business is worked) but neither title would be on the line (for obvious reasons... Can you imagine Velasquez winning the WWE title?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sorry, but I find this an insanely dumb idea. Not only would it devalue Lesnar and the WWE title, but I'm fine without legit MMA in my pro wrestling, thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sorry, but I find this an insanely dumb idea. Not only would it devalue Lesnar and the WWE title, but I'm fine without legit MMA in my pro wrestling, thank you very much. It is dumb, but it's the only possible event I can think of from either that would sell insanely huge. Cain cannot work a pro wrestling match, but Brock can fight, and could possibly (although it's unlikely at this stage) upset him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Except... I don't care about Cain Velasquez. I barely even know who Cain Velasquez is. I sure as hell would not recognize Cain Velasquez if he walked down the street. Yes, there are a subsection of fans who follow both WWE and UFC, WWE and NFL, etc. But not everyone does. This kind of thinking is exactly what has damaged Meltzer's MMA Observer Newsletter...excuse me, I mean Wrestling Observer. Case-in-point: Was Lawrence Taylor vs. Bam Bam Bigelow one of the biggest matches of all time? No. True, Bam Bam wasn't the "biggest star," but I'd say the same about Hulk Hogan vs. LT too. I had no idea who LT was and didn't care. The only reason the match worked is because LT acted like an arrogant, clueless asshole (calling 1-2-3 Kid a "13-year-old," etc.) and he made me root against him. Also, I despised and resented Bam Bam being forced to apologize. But none of that is good booking, because that wasn't the reaction I was "supposed" to have. The biggest PPV wrestling match of all time is going to be between two hot wrestlers, period. That way, you can guarantee that 100% of your audience will know the players involved and be invested in them. Yes, outside celebs bring outside fans, but do those fans stick around? I'm not so sure. Hogan vs. Stone Cold would've worked 10 years ago. Stone Cold vs. CM Punk would've worked 2 years ago. I'm not sure what would work today. Even the one possible exception - Stone Cold vs. Tyson (15 years ago, not now) - would've been "hot" but still ultimately a sideshow circus attraction and far from "the biggest PPV match of all time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I fully expected this to be Pac vs. Mayweather bullshit part 57. I don't think we have seen any evidence that Cain is a great draw and he refuses to make the vendetta personal so I don't see how this would make the biggest PPV of all time. I think it Austin was in fact game for Mania and Hogan can go like hinted at in the Observer than a Mania with Rock or Austin vs. HHH, Brock vs. Reigns or Bryan, and Hogan vs. Cena would have a good shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Well, like I said, I don't think either sport can hope to achieve the numbers boxing has done singularly... But, it is a discussion thread, so I'd be keen to hear ideas on what kind of wrestling match could draw >1,800,000 PPV buys, given that WWE also has it's network now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dana White vs. Vince McMahon. Book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Dana White vs. Vince McMahon. Book it. Well, Trump/McMahon drew huge, even if it wasn't a match... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 The fact that WWE didn't do Cena/Taker at Mania is a masterclass in leaving money on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Brock/Cain isn't breaking 1m buys. The fight's happened and Cain won handily back when Brock was training MMA. It barely broke 1m then. Nobody is buying Brock a second time round after such a lay off. Oh, and Cain can't promote a fight for shit (it's actually embarrassing how badly the fights with Dos Santos drew). Neither WWE nor UFC nor combined are breaking 2m, nor even coming close. And that's including the 700k(?) who have the network and would, presumably, wouldn't have to pay for it twice over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 How many buys could a big, co-promoted WWF/WCW PPV in 1998 have possibly done with Austin vs. Goldberg on the top? Would it have set a record that still stands today for wrestling? A total lame duck card in the 2001 Invasion PPV did 700k. Was there ever a potential main event that could have busted through 2 million buys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Was there ever a potential main event that could have busted through 2 million buys? I think WWE hoped that Cena/Rock I was going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 How many buys could a big, co-promoted WWF/WCW PPV in 1998 have possibly done with Austin vs. Goldberg on the top? Would it have set a record that still stands today for wrestling? A total lame duck card in the 2001 Invasion PPV did 700k. Was there ever a potential main event that could have busted through 2 million buys? I think a Goldberg vs. Austin, WCW vs. WWF card in the late summer or fall of 1998 would have at least come close to achieving a still-standing record, but probably would have fallen well short of 2 million buys. Both promotions' bigger shows were doing far less than 1 million buys at that time and there was certainly some cross over in customers. So even if the interest in a WCW/WWF joint show got a significant amount of fans who never bought a PPV to buy one, it still wouldn't be enough (unless it was a REALLY significant amount). Watching the '98 year book, we discussed that Austin/Goldberg in the summer of 1998 does feel like it could have been one of the biggest matches of all time in terms of hype and anticipation. I think its safe to say that whatever amount of buys a joint card headlined by that match would have done in 1998, would have represented the ceiling a pro wrestling PPV could have done at that particular time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 What's the biggest potential drawing match in 2014-2015 that has a realistic shot of actually happening? I'd say Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan, with Stephanie getting to shave Bryan's beard herself if he loses and Steve Austin as referee, but that's just a shot in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I feel like Austin has been involved in so many different things since he first left in 2002 that his only real significant value added is actually being in a real match. Austin/Cena maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I don't think we'll see him wrestle again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yeah, let's copy the promotional strategy that nearly put New Japan out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 People who wrote Austin/Goldberg in 98', I have to ask - what about Austin/Hogan in 98'? To me, that would've been the biggest match possible at that time and, arguably, at any time after. In 2002, Rock/Hogan brought in (estimated) 850k, but I'm thinking, 3-4 years earlier, wrestling was even hotter, Hogan was still much more protected as a performer, and the InVasion hadn't happened and died yet. At the same time, though, in 98', the WWE's reach wasn't as global as it would be a decade later, which is why I think, looking at WrestleManias 20 and on, you have considerably higher buyrates (upwards of 200-300k more buys) even when domestic TV ratings and general American "mainstream buzz" is obviously not what it was before WrestleMania 20. So, yeah, if you could take TODAY's WWE brand and reach and then take the magnitude of heat Austin and Hogan could generate in 98', you'd have the biggest PPV match of all time (which I'd say would still probably max out around 1.5 million buys). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Austin/Hogan in 98 would have drawn really well. I remember their picture being plastered on a mainstream non-wrestling magazine during that summer. I don't know if it would have drawn better than Austin/Goldberg, but both would have set wrestling PPV records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Austin, Brock, Taker, Cena, Punk, and The Rock will all need to be involved in matches that mean something. Punk/Austin, Brock/Rock, Cena/Taker would be the match list. Vince tried to get a fight with Dana, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Vince try to get an MMA fight for Batista. Angle will soon be free and I can see him going back to WWE. And of course there is Sting. Sting can face anyone who can actually go (Jericho, Wyatt, Rollins, Orton) as the draw would be Sting's debut WWE match. Toss in those 5 matches and I think WWE will beat Mania 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRMD Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 What's the biggest potential drawing match in 2014-2015 that has a realistic shot of actually happening? I'd say Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan, with Stephanie getting to shave Bryan's beard herself if he loses and Steve Austin as referee, but that's just a shot in the dark. Austin has said that he's done doing special guest referee stuff. But maybe he'd do it if it were the Main. I think we see Austin WRESTLE at 31 or 32. He's said himself that he's training for it, and I think he got the itch back at 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 What matters more? Mobilizing the base or drawing in casuals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Lacelle Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Draw in casuals. The hardcore audience is very forgiving. They'll watch it & fantasy book & critique but that's the thing. They'll still watch. You draw in your future hardcores by getting their eyes on it first. Let them know it exists. I became a wrestling fan in part due to my love of all things A-Team. Having Mr. T involved made me curious about what this whole wrestling thing is about. Lebron James could probably do it nowadays. Someone or something with a built in fan base but with a natural progression. It can't appear to be suddenly happening. It has to be seamless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Ideally, you want to draw in casuals and present a show that turns them into the base. Basing the biggest shows around part-time guys just sends the message that the everyday talent isn't worth watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Lesnar vs. Mir II drew 1,600,000 buys Wrestlemania 28 drew 1,217,000 buys Mayweather vs. De La Hoya drew 2,400,000 buys The three biggest drawing PPV events in the history of MMA, Pro Wrestling, and Boxing. Boxing clearly wins in popularity, having broken the 2 million buys threshold on more than one occasion. So what do professional wrestling and MMA need to do to outdraw Mayweather? "Champion vs. Champion" "WWE vs. UFC" "The Rematch Of The Century" "WWE World Heavyweight Champion" Brock Lesnar vs. "UFC World Heavyweight Champion" Cain Velasquez - Co-Promoted by WWE and UFC (which immediately puts this ever happening to bed) - The contest itself would be a shoot (referred to by WWE as "MMA rules", rather than openly admitting that their business is worked) but neither title would be on the line (for obvious reasons... Can you imagine Velasquez winning the WWE title?) I'd guess it would do less than the million it did the last time it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.