goodhelmet Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's not forget fans chanting "same old shit!" at Danielson in 2006 This wasn't a serious thing - it was Danielson as heel playing up to a stereotype and playing with the crowd, and them loving it. The crowd were just playing their role as part of the gimmick and feeling like they were involved in the product. This sounds so counter-productive that I don't know what to think of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I guess my memory was a bit off. I remember some fans chanting "Shut the fuck up!" at the fans chanting "Same old shit!", and remember reading on message boards how the people chanting the latter phrase were "CZW fans". I don't know if that was true, used as an insult, or just said because of the then ROH vs CZW feud at the time. But yeah, now I do remember Danielson improvising and playing along with the crowd after hearing these chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's not forget fans chanting "same old shit!" at Danielson in 2006 This wasn't a serious thing - it was Danielson as heel playing up to a stereotype and playing with the crowd, and them loving it. The crowd were just playing their role as part of the gimmick and feeling like they were involved in the product. This sounds so counter-productive that I don't know what to think of this. It was just ROH back then. The heels never got any proper heat, aside from maybe Jimmy Rave. So they turned Danielson in a sort of 'wink, wink' sort of way, where he would play up to heel stereotypes and all the things ROH fans hated about the WWE product like 'rest holds' and berating the crowd, or his exaggerated "I have till five" stuff. So them chanting "Same old shit" to him was just a reference to that, and the desired reaction. All a bit embarrassing looking back, but still a touch above the "This is awesome" and "Please don't stop" chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I guess my memory was a bit off. I remember some fans chanting "Shut the fuck up!" at the fans chanting "Same old shit!", and remember reading on message boards how the people chanting the latter phrase were "CZW fans". I don't know if that was true, used as an insult, or just said because of the then ROH vs CZW feud at the time. But yeah, now I do remember Danielson improvising and playing along with the crowd after hearing these chants. The ROH vs CZW feud was pretty manufactured, there wasn't any particular animosity between the two companies. You did get a section of the fans who "turned heel" and started booing ROH style product and going crazy for the hardcore stuff, but again it was only for a few shows and it was more about the fans trying to get themselves over and be part of the feud rather than any real suggestion that Danielson wasn't a great worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's not forget fans chanting "same old shit!" at Danielson in 2006 This wasn't a serious thing - it was Danielson as heel playing up to a stereotype and playing with the crowd, and them loving it. The crowd were just playing their role as part of the gimmick and feeling like they were involved in the product. This sounds so counter-productive that I don't know what to think of this. It was just ROH back then. The heels never got any proper heat, aside from maybe Jimmy Rave. So they turned Danielson in a sort of 'wink, wink' sort of way, where he would play up to heel stereotypes and all the things ROH fans hated about the WWE product like 'rest holds' and berating the crowd, or his exaggerated "I have till five" stuff. So them chanting "Same old shit" to him was just a reference to that, and the desired reaction. All a bit embarrassing looking back, but still a touch above the "This is awesome" and "Please don't stop" chants. I don't think it was embarrassing. And it wasn't counter productive at all. The guy was over like crazy. He was doing a subtle heel act, and it was sort of wink wink, but he was definitely the heel in the Delirious program for instance. Shades of gray in wrestling are always more interesting than black & white. ROH was wrestling for smarks that weren't interested in the same old tropes. It wasn't a promotion for old ladies sitting in the front row who still believed. Personally I think it's the most interesting character work he's ever done, as the guy who let "best in the world" get to his head, and I think 2006 was by far his best overall year. He could have went full on heel, but ironically that's more of the 'same old shit', plus it would have never worked because nobody was going to dislike him no matter what he did. It would be like all of those 80's promoters trying to get people to boo the Road Warriors. About crowd chants. The only crowd chant that has ever bothered me is "You fucked up", which is cringy & disrespectful. People who complain about crowd chants or complain that crowds are "putting themselves over" always come off as old curmudgeons to me. And this coming from someone who hardly ever makes a peep at shows beyond polite clapping. People pay for a ticket, they can have fun any way they please. We hear people complain every year about the post-Mania RAW crowd, but shit, I wish EVERY crowd was that hot. Those shows are can't miss because of the crowds. I went to a million ROH shows, and they were all a fun atmosphere. I wouldn't change a thing about those shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Let's not forget fans chanting "same old shit!" at Danielson in 2006 This wasn't a serious thing - it was Danielson as heel playing up to a stereotype and playing with the crowd, and them loving it. The crowd were just playing their role as part of the gimmick and feeling like they were involved in the product. This sounds so counter-productive that I don't know what to think of this. It was just ROH back then. The heels never got any proper heat, aside from maybe Jimmy Rave. So they turned Danielson in a sort of 'wink, wink' sort of way, where he would play up to heel stereotypes and all the things ROH fans hated about the WWE product like 'rest holds' and berating the crowd, or his exaggerated "I have till five" stuff. So them chanting "Same old shit" to him was just a reference to that, and the desired reaction. All a bit embarrassing looking back, but still a touch above the "This is awesome" and "Please don't stop" chants. I don't think it was embarrassing. And it wasn't counter productive at all. The guy was over like crazy. He was doing a subtle heel act, and it was sort of wink wink, but he was definitely the heel in the Delirious program for instance. Shades of gray in wrestling are always more interesting than black & white. ROH was wrestling for smarks that weren't interested in the same old tropes. It wasn't a promotion for old ladies sitting in the front row who still believed. Personally I think it's the most interesting character work he's ever done, as the guy who let "best in the world" get to his head, and I think 2006 was by far his best overall year. He could have went full on heel, but ironically that's more of the 'same old shit', plus it would have never worked because nobody was going to dislike him no matter what he did. It would be like all of those 80's promoters trying to get people to boo the Road Warriors. About crowd chants. The only crowd chant that has ever bothered me is "You fucked up", which is cringy & disrespectful. People who complain about crowd chants or complain that crowds are "putting themselves over" always come off as old curmudgeons to me. And this coming from someone who hardly ever makes a peep at shows beyond polite clapping. People pay for a ticket, they can have fun any way they please. We hear people complain every year about the post-Mania RAW crowd, but shit, I wish EVERY crowd was that hot. Those shows are can't miss because of the crowds. I went to a million ROH shows, and they were all a fun atmosphere. I wouldn't change a thing about those shows. Crowd chants have started working their way into mainstream sports. You've had the Bleacher Creature roll call at Yankee Stadium for years and at its core, "Let's go Red Sox" is just a version of "Let's go Low Ki." But this past weekend in Baltimore, there were numerous, loud "Nick Markakis" chants (done in the Nick Mar-Kay-Kis clap rhythm) that made me think I was at a mid 2000's ROH show, only with 47,000 fans doing it, which was quite a spectacle. My main issue with crowd chants, beyond the terrible "This is awesome" chant, is that crowd heat will never come close to what it was in years past. Part of that is me being unwilling to adapt, part of it is the genie being let out of the bottle. But when I watch 1985-1986 Crockett shows and see blistering heat without a single chant needed, it definitely makes me more aware of how the heat is generated today. I love the Punk vs. Cena MITB 2011 match, which is certainly helped by the awesome crowd reaction (and chants) but it has also lead to some matches getting This is Awesome chants 3 minutes in, when they don't deserve it or warrant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 The 'This is awesome' chant to me is the equivalent to someone posting on Facebook from a nightclub. "Having such an amazing and crazy night!" If you're in a club and you really are having a rollicking great time, you aren't going to be stood around on your phone talking about it on social media. Similarly, if the match is awesome than why aren't you really involved and engrossed in it, rather than chanting about how good it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 The 'This is awesome' chant to me is the equivalent to someone posting on Facebook from a nightclub. "Having such an amazing and crazy night!" If you're in a club and you really are having a rollicking great time, you aren't going to be stood around on your phone talking about it on social media. Similarly, if the match is awesome than why aren't you really involved and engrossed in it, rather than chanting about how good it is. Probably because when those people are really into it, they like to chant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 They aren't chanting for anything in particular though, not like at a soccer match. The chant is basically "I'm really enjoying this match", which is dumb as fuck. If you are enjoying it then pop for near falls, cheer and boo and gasp and be involved in it, rather than chanting about what a good time you are having. If you watch a really good film at the cinema you should get lost in the plot and characters, rather than sitting there thinking about the lovely cinematography on a particular shot or the structure of a particular scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I hate all of the chants in wrestling, but it's not the same as whipping out your smartphone at a club and taking two seconds to use an app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 You may think its dumb, but there's a whole group of fans who show their enjoyment that way. And yes, it's just like saying "I really enjoy this match", just the same way popping for a near fall does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I hate all of the chants in wrestling, but it's not the same as whipping out your smartphone at a club and taking two seconds to use an app. It is the same thing in that you claim to be caught up in this amazing moment, yet you are still detached enough to post on Facebook or chant about the quality of a match. You may think its dumb, but there's a whole group of fans who show their enjoyment that way. And yes, it's just like saying "I really enjoy this match", just the same way popping for a near fall does. Popping for a near fall means you have suspended reality, you have bought in to the story of the match and are vested in the outcome, the art has drawn you in and made you believe. It is not equatable to chanting "This is awesome" in the least, which suggests that actually you aren't buying into the match at all and are treating it like a performance spectacle. Nobody chants "This is awesome" during a boxing match, they shout for the competitors and roar at big punches and gasp at the equivalent of near falls when someone gets rocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I hate all of the chants in wrestling, but it's not the same as whipping out your smartphone at a club and taking two seconds to use an app. It is the same thing in that you claim to be caught up in this amazing moment, yet you are still detached enough to post on Facebook or chant about the quality of a match. Or it could mean you're having a great time and want to take a picture of you and your friends and put it on Facebook or write some short one line message. It's pretty innocuous as opposed to the chanting which is obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 This conversation has such a "get off my lawn!" feel. "This is awesome" is more of a salute to the wrestlers in the ring, a way for the fans to let them know they are loving the match. Same for "please don't stop". No different than lucha fans tossing money in the ring. It isn't really as much about expressing "i'm enjoying myself!". I don't see what's so obnoxious about it, or what makes screaming and clapping like a mental case any less mental or refined or not obnoxious. Those things aren't mutually exclusive anyway. These chants have mostly jumped the shark because crowds are too quick to do them these days, but well timed & appropriate chants are a fun part of the atmosphere and can add to a match for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Wrestling was a lot better back when the goal was to work the fans rather than entertain them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 They're chanting because they think they're part of the show. It used to be that you went to wrestling to watch the show. Now you go there to interact with it. I can't blame the audience entirely since they've been directly addressing the fans for decades now with their 20 minute opening monologues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 The "aren't we smart" chants are fucking annoying at a WWE show. Last house show I went to had like one row of douchebags chanting "CM PUNK" and other dopey shit and We moved seats to get away from them and sit by some kids. That being said, watching an ROH show and complaining about chants is like going to Rocky Horror and getting mad that people are shouting and chanting shit and throwing toast. And Bryan is a thousand times better in WWE and his look is fucking awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Chanting 'this is wrestling' when a wrestler does something wrestling related that the crowd likes is the equivalent of chanting 'this is baseball' during a well played game. No shit it's baseball, no shit it's wrestling. And that chant is a direct sub chant of 'This is awesome'. No 'get off my lawn' sentiment here, it's just ridiculous in almost every case. Joe vs. Kobashi, a match that I like so much that it may finish 1-2 in the best indy matches of the 2000's, has an audible, if not loud 'Can't see shit' because the fans think they are more important than what is going on during the show. Again, go back to baseball and when fans boo their own player or moan and groan about a bad pitch or play, the FANS become the center of attention and that serves no purpose other than to show 'I want to be the center of attention.' Hecklers at comedy shows are more or less doing the attention seeking thing. I've seen Seinfeld live numerous times and I don't break into a 'this is awesome' chant after he nails his fourth joke in a row. At concerts, if the audience breaks into a 'this is awesome' chant during the middle of a song, that makes no sense. You want the crowd to be energized, singing, dancing, etc. as a performer but not chanting. Do audiences chant 'please come back' she they want an encore? No, they keep cheering and clapping, and screaming which are all the qualities of really great wrestling heat. I blame ECW for most of this but then again, I blame ECW for a lot of what has gone wrong in US wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'm in the same boast as the anti-chant camp, heck I wrote an article about it for The Tag Rope. I like great wrestling, and I love crowds that get into great wrestling. The This is Awesome stuff is self-serving and not about the wrestling, but about getting yourself over. It's really all an offshoot of the ECW crowd mentality, and for me it produces some of the worst crowds. I'll take the crowd for Royal Rumble '90 over any smart crowd, they were so invested in what was going on they were nuclear, and they were putting the wrestling over, not themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 "This is awesome" is more of a salute to the wrestlers in the ring, a way for the fans to let them know they are loving the match. Twatty and annoying. Same for "please don't stop". Ditto. Just boo the heels and cheer the faces like a proper wrestling crowd for god's sake. "Thank you Kenta" = worst moment in wrestling history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 "Please don't stop" is a little too kinky for a wrestling show. You kind of expect "Fuck me harder" to be the next chant in that progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 My favorite are the people who will chant for both guys in the "Let's Go .... " "Let's go .... " sequence. I bet there are people who chant both Let's Go Cena and Cena sucks actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think the problem with it for me is that the tone is basically this ... I'm generally not keen on that as a fan reaction. I think WWE did pretty well at channeling that general sycophantic douchery into making Bryan a proper babyface battling proper villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 "Please don't stop" is a little too kinky for a wrestling show. You kind of expect "Fuck me harder" to be the next chant in that progression. What's funny is that I could actually see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 This all sounds a lot like, "I don't cheer like that, so it's stupid that other people do things in a way I don't like!". Things change, maybe the standard that crowds are judged by shoul..........no. Forget I said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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