Leaving money on the table...

[pol]

I remember there being a lot of mainstream buzz for that angle, the most there had been around WWE in years.

[WingedEagle]

Not quite sure it would've generated mainstream buzz, but there were probably plenty of non-WWE events or shows he could've appeared at that they found a way to work into Raw that would've made it a really big deal to the core audience. Problem there is with the timing, I'm not sure you could've stretched it out enough to capitalize on it. Summerslam was too soon to bring him back, Survivor Series was already Rock's return and that means you're pushing it to the Rumble if you want to give it a real chance to draw. On the other hand, much as I like Rey, Summerslam wasn't about to do boffo business with him on top.

[bradhindsight]

Completely disagree with Brad. The real money was in seeing Punk holding the belt hostage and appearing with it at various events and media shows setting up the slow burn leading to his return. I think Dylan would agree that it was the perfect time to set up the Cena heel turn and Rey was fucking still over at that point. Rey was leaving after Summerslam to have surgery I think so Cena could have been the one to lay Rey out and take credit for enfing his career. You could have had a solid co-main to help Summerslam and the Punk ' s eventual return would blow the roof off the place.

 

With your storyline, I'd agree that there was more long term money (Cena heel turn as the vehicle for the rest of the Punk feud). With what they went with, I don't see how holding him out to do other appearances would have eventually drawn any more money for them (especially with the Rock returning).

 

Creatively the story ended up being terrible but my point is just that financially, given the information they had after mitb (the buzz, and buyrate), I can understand why they wanted to run the rematch so soon.

[bradhindsight]

I talked to Punk leading up to the Summerslam show and he wanted to go further with it but was in a tight spot holding the belt. Less than a month later, he knew the whole thing was fucked once Hunter and Nash got into it.

 

Three years too early. Today, with the Network model, it's more feasible for them to draw it out. Back then, it was all PPV driven. They would have had more room to be creative (their creative, limited at best) had they done this in June also - having the Rey/Cena match in July and then the rematch at SummerSlam.

[goodhelmet]

What " various events and media shows" would have given any time or coverage of "Pro Wrestler CM Punk with The WWE belt"? I'm struggling to think of anywhere he would have showed up with it that would have meant anything mainstream.

He had already been scheduled for Comicon. He appeared on Kimmel not too long after he won the belt. Hell... look at his regular appearances on Talking Dead. He has sung Take Me Out to the Ball Park at Wrigley. Whatever media appearances you would have Cena do; you have Punk do with "his own" film crew. He could have done Robot Chicken. Fuck man, the more I think about it... he could have been all over the place. I know you are the defender of all WWE booking but this was all about building up his return... not rushing it and it ended up meaning nothing.

[anarchistxx]

I think Rey is overrated as a draw. He shifted a ton of merchandise and was a huge television attraction in a lot of territories, but his run on top as champion didn't see any discernable increase in PPV sales.

[Venegas]

 

What " various events and media shows" would have given any time or coverage of "Pro Wrestler CM Punk with The WWE belt"? I'm struggling to think of anywhere he would have showed up with it that would have meant anything mainstream.

He had already been scheduled for Comicon. He appeared on Kimmel not too long after he won the belt. Hell... look at his regular appearances on Talking Dead. He has sung Take Me Out to the Ball Park at Wrigley. Whatever media appearances you would have Cena do; you have Punk do with "his own" film crew. He could have done Robot Chicken. Fuck man, the more I think about it... he could have been all over the place. I know you are the defender of all WWE booking but this was all about building up his return... not rushing it and it ended up meaning nothing.

He also wanted to stand behind the glass of Good Morning America holding the title. Something like that would've generated a crazy amount of buzz, in the wrestling world at the very least.

[C.S.]

I think Rey is overrated as a draw. He shifted a ton of merchandise and was a huge television attraction in a lot of territories, but his run on top as champion didn't see any discernable increase in PPV sales.

 

He was also booked like hot garbage as champ. He lost more than he won. It was ridiculous.

[goc]

I don't think it's fair at all to judge Rey as a draw based on his title run, which for some stupid reason is maybe his worst booked period in his whole WWE run. In 2005 he and Eddie were bringing in audiences that were coming exclusively to see them as there were stories of large portions of the audience leaving after their matches were over on house shows if Rey/Eddie didn't go on last.

[anotherspammer]

Does anybody have more details about Rey as a draw? Did the PPVs during his feud with Eddie draw any better or worse than usual? I agree that looking at his title reign might not give the best insight, as the booking was atrocious and seemed designed to not draw a dime, but there has to be some way to determine if he was a PPV draw or not. Did PPVs with any other high-profile feuds (vs. Punk and vs. Jericho come to mind) see any change in buyrates?

[Loss]

They thought way too inside the box with the Punk angle. Punk needed to be part of the Summerslam build for sure, but he shouldn't have wrestled - he should have been a shit disturber in Cena vs Rey and made clear through paid ads on RAW and social media that he would buy a ticket and that he could promise there would be no new champion coming out of the show. WWE didn't get to move on in his absence and crown a different champion. Their champ was simply CM Punk and he quit, and they were never allowed to replace him with a new champ. That's the angle.

 

Cena vs Rey, ref bump, fan in Rey mask attacks Cena, Rey pulls him off and unmasks him, it turns out to be Punk, chaos ensues, Punk takes off with the new belt through the crowd. Then Cena-Rey rematch in a cage with Punk somehow breaking through again. Then Cena-Rey-Punk. Then Rey-Punk. Then Cena-Punk. No reason versions of that match couldn't have played out for several months (I realize Rey was injured during that time, but they could have inserted someone else into that spot as well.)

[tigerpride]

I think Rey is overrated as a draw. He shifted a ton of merchandise and was a huge television attraction in a lot of territories, but his run on top as champion didn't see any discernable increase in PPV sales.

 

Wasn't the Rey v. Eddy storyline in 2005 a huge draw with the Hispanic audience?

[tigerpride]

What " various events and media shows" would have given any time or coverage of "Pro Wrestler CM Punk with The WWE belt"? I'm struggling to think of anywhere he would have showed up with it that would have meant anything mainstream.

 

Punk could've done a ton of press holding the WWE belt hostage. There was a lot of buzz surrounding the MITB angle. I understand why they rushed the match, but throwing Rey v. Cena out there with no build was an awful decision. That's a dream match and then you could do a three-way the next month to keep drawing out the Punk v. Cena blowoff.

[goodhelmet]

They thought way too inside the box with the Punk angle. Punk needed to be part of the Summerslam build for sure, but he shouldn't have wrestled - he should have been a shit disturber in Cena vs Rey and made clear through paid ads on RAW and social media that he would buy a ticket and that he could promise there would be no new champion coming out of the show. WWE didn't get to move on in his absence and crown a different champion. Their champ was simply CM Punk and he quit, and they were never allowed to replace him with a new champ. That's the angle.

Cena vs Rey, ref bump, fan in Rey mask attacks Cena, Rey pulls him off and unmasks him, it turns out to be Punk, chaos ensues, Punk takes off with the new belt through the crowd. Then Cena-Rey rematch in a cage with Punk somehow breaking through again. Then Cena-Rey-Punk. Then Rey-Punk. Then Cena-Punk. No reason versions of that match couldn't have played out for several months (I realize Rey was injured during that time, but they could have inserted someone else into that spot as well.)

 

 

Great booking!!! And it involved the three biggest merch movers and over guys (at the time) on the roster.

[Loss]

I think they should have even had Vince acquiesce to some ridiculous demands Punk finally makes in order to return, and a lot of it could have focused on the look and feel of the show, which would have helped signal that this wasn't just another angle that would cool off in a few weeks, but that this was a new promotional direction. Sadly, this was just another angle that would cool off in a few weeks.

[NintendoLogic]

It should be pointed out that Summerslam 2011 did a lousy buyrate. So if the goal in rushing Punk back was to draw money by striking while the iron was hot, they failed.

[WingedEagle]

They thought way too inside the box with the Punk angle. Punk needed to be part of the Summerslam build for sure, but he shouldn't have wrestled - he should have been a shit disturber in Cena vs Rey and made clear through paid ads on RAW and social media that he would buy a ticket and that he could promise there would be no new champion coming out of the show. WWE didn't get to move on in his absence and crown a different champion. Their champ was simply CM Punk and he quit, and they were never allowed to replace him with a new champ. That's the angle.

 

Cena vs Rey, ref bump, fan in Rey mask attacks Cena, Rey pulls him off and unmasks him, it turns out to be Punk, chaos ensues, Punk takes off with the new belt through the crowd. Then Cena-Rey rematch in a cage with Punk somehow breaking through again. Then Cena-Rey-Punk. Then Rey-Punk. Then Cena-Punk. No reason versions of that match couldn't have played out for several months (I realize Rey was injured during that time, but they could have inserted someone else into that spot as well.)

 

Now that is how you do it. Make it clear he's a part of the shows you're selling but hold off on delivering him in the ring.

[whitegoodmansdball]

It should be pointed out that Summerslam 2011 did a lousy buyrate. So if the goal in rushing Punk back was to draw money by striking while the iron was hot, they failed.

 

Great, great point. It actually did the lowest buyrate since SummerSlam 1997, which is a HUGE disappointment. I'm not surprised they pulled the brakes on his title run.

[bradhindsight]

Punk lost the title at SummerSlam, and then started his year-long run a couple of months later so I'm not sure how that buyrate played negatively into his push at all.

[anarchistxx]

 

I think Rey is overrated as a draw. He shifted a ton of merchandise and was a huge television attraction in a lot of territories, but his run on top as champion didn't see any discernable increase in PPV sales.

 

Wasn't the Rey v. Eddy storyline in 2005 a huge draw with the Hispanic audience?

 

 

As a television attraction. Summerslam 2005 did a massive buyrate but it was with Hogan/Michaels headlining. Great American Bash and Judgement Day sold pretty averagely with Rey vs Eddie as one of the marquee matches.

[goodhelmet]

Were they still doing split brand PPVs in 2005? If so, I would be interested in the buyrate compared to the RAW PPVs being offered around the same time. If not, nevermind.

[Marty]

Yeah, brand split shows went from 2003 to 2007.

[PhilTLL]

Were they still doing split brand PPVs in 2005? If so, I would be interested in the buyrate compared to the RAW PPVs being offered around the same time. If not, nevermind.

They loaded Raw's Backlash (5/1, Hogan appearance) and Vengeance (6/26, both world titles plus Angle/HBK 2, felt like a stab at adding a Big Five), and they did 320k and 420k respectively. SmackDown's Judgment Day (5/22, Cena/JBL I Quit, Eddie/Rey) did 280 and GAB (7/24, Batista/JBL, Eddie/Rey) did 260. Plus One Night Stand (buys not listed) was on 6/12.

 

I think those numbers are decent, considering Raw was the focus and there were 5 PPVs in 3 months, but hard to say if they moved the peg or just held it steady. And it's hard to say the extent that a semi-main program moves numbers. Those are similar to summer 2004 and up from fall 2004, but both years were a decline from 2003, when Mania bombed but almost everything else was drawing in the mid 300s and up. 2003 was the first year of brand split PPVs, but before they went to 16 a year. As is well known, 16 at a lower buy > 12 at a higher buy was the principle, but the numbers were permanently down even when they pared back the shows a few years later.

 

2005 Raw PPVs after SummerSlam (640, for the record) were back in line with SmackDown, doing 250 for Unforgiven (Cena/Angle, Hardy/Edge cage) and Taboo Tuesday (Cena/Angle/HBK, Flair/HHH cage). No Mercy (Batista/Eddie) got 230, Survivor Series 400, then SmackDown closed the year strong with 320 for Armageddon (Taker/Orton HITC), though obviously that's post-Eddie and post-Eddie/Rey. The first New Year's Revolution hosted Elimination Chamber and drew a strong 335.

 

Per the spreadsheet on prowrestlinghistory.com, numbers worldwide. And if I can add what is now a total cliché, holy moly, WWE had a huge and formidable talent base in the 2000s.

[flyonthewall2983]

I think Savage-Rude would have drawn decent money with Rude hitting on Elizabeth. Better than Savage-Bad News which didn't draw.

 

I bet Savage was originally thought of for the Jake Roberts angle Rude did that year, but Randy squelched it pretty quick for obvious reasons.