goodhelmet Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 That wasn't the argument. The argument was that anyone who read over that planned script would realize it wouldn't work and was complete dogshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If there were heels that were actually over the angle would've worked better but like I said when your top 2 babyfaces are your hottest heels then you have some issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 That wasn't the argument. The argument was that anyone who read over that planned script would realize it wouldn't work and was complete dogshit. Â I agree it was hilariously bad, but there was a certain logic behind some of what they did that made sense, especially if you looked at it from the perspective of "we just need to get through this night and cater to the casual fan". Â But the problem isn't just Vince. I'm sure there are members of the creative staff who know better, but there's equally people who don't have a deep enough understanding of what would and wouldn't work in front of a such hardcore crowd to know that their plans would so horrendously backfire. Â Meltzer alluded to WWE panicking earlier in the show when they realised the scale of the backlash that could have been coming their way and making last minute changes to the match that upset The Rock. It's hard to believe that what we saw could have been even worse than what transpired, but it's possible what was originally planned wasn't quite so wretched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The way it sounded, Rock was pissed after the fact for sending him into that shitshow, not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yeah, that too. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thing was you had Rock come out there and he didn't even cut a promo so he was neutered just like everyone else. They ended the show a good 10 minutes early as well so there was plenty of time to do some shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If I'm Rock I don't think I'd want to show up in the WWE anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Something i didn't bring up on the show and Dylan alluded to about it could have worked with a couple of guys. Ziggler was a n example. The finish at Survivor Series was pretty much similar and it got over huge. Subsitute Sting and Rock and other pieces like Rollins and Rusev instead of Kane and Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Elaborate. What exactly would you switch around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Crimson shorts. Tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 My point was Will that these 2 shows were booked similar at the finishes. Just with different people involved. The main difference people wanted to see Ziggler win. They didn't want to see Reigns wins. On top of that Ziggler is far superior at selling and getting the crowd behind him compared to Reigns. It's more that their are guys they might have accepted in the Reigns spot. Ziggler,Bryan, and maybe Ambrose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The booking looked good on paper if the bookers were trapped in an underground bunker and given no contact with the outside world for the last year and a half. Once you actually put the booking into some kind of context, it immediately becomes obviously terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm up to the three way. I get the argument against the stretcher but that plays into the story Dylan was telling. The stretcher was a red flag that they were going to protect Brock in the loss in a way that him just being destroyed by a big elbow drop wouldn't have, not because of real logic so much of because of wrestling booking logic, if that makes sense. That match was all about playing with the fans' notions and expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If there were heels that were actually over the angle would've worked better but like I said when your top 2 babyfaces are your hottest heels then you have some issues BINGO! This is exactly the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I liked the Divas match more than opening six-man. It was close, but I think that divas match was an appreciable level above. Â I disagree about Daniel Bryan's promo ability. He is able to convey how much he loves pro wrestling and you really believe in the underdog character. He comes across as real even with the shitty scripting. He is one of the top 5 promos in WWE right now and that There is no Cesaro character to really buy into. The arrogant, grandstanding strongman was fine, but you could only figure that out watching the matches intently never from promos or commentary. Â I thought New Age Outlaws were pretty damn over in Philly and I was there. I was actually pretty pumped to finally get to sing-a-long to Outlaw's promo. I think we need just one character with a fun sing-a-long catchphrase. Outlaws/Ascension was fucking awful. I was right next to the section that was chanting "You still got it" and I don't think it was ironic. It was just plain weird. Â Amen, Will if I see one more Usos/Miz & Mizdow, it is too soon. Their RAW tag title switch I thought was actively bad. I thought match was pretty awful too. I actually tried to watch the match instead Mizdow and I think that is why I don't get as much enjoy out of it. I don't think they go full bore on the comedy enough. I was watching live so I don't always pick up on details, but exactly happened in this match to further any dissension. I understand how the Rumble did, but what about this match? Yes the crowd was dead for the women's match, but I tried hard to get my section into it to no avail. I didn't notice any botched spots. The Bellas actually made the Paige & Nattie team earn babyface shine. The Bellas worked a strong heat segment. Brie could throw a damn nice knee. If she only threw knees, she would be great. Nikki was throwing great stiff shots. I loved how they were building to the Paige hot tag and then just took it away from us with a fucking wicked elbow. You are all a bunch of haters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'll agree. The chant wasn't ironic. It was just a crowd wanting desperately to be able to chant that at anyone and have a reason to be part of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Matt and Sleaze on tv the reaction was horrible to Reigns winning. To me it came across like this might get out of hand. Did it feel like their was a chance live of a possibility of a riot breaking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 There was a moment, a brief moment, maybe, where I thought there could be the throwing of things, in 2015. The reason why there wasn't, I think, was people everyone knew what was going to happen the second Bryan got eliminated. So in THAT regard, I guess it worked that everyone was a little burnt out on their anger by the end. I think everyone who was making that noise just really wanted to make sure that the company and anyone watching got the point. I'm not sure it was anger at that point so much as sending the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 It is 2015 and at the end of the day, I would be shocked in anyone in the US rioted over wrestling. If this was mid-90s WCW, there is no doubt that the trash would have been flying and I am more surprised that did not happen. My brother said if we were closer, he would have chucked things. Â Matt actually put it perfectly as I was trying to describe the feeling. It was not exactly anger. Personally, I was not angry, but damn sure I was going to boo the hell out of Roman Reigns and pretty much the rest of the Rumble because they needed to know they are stupid. I didn't think the "revolt" was as vicious as it could have been. There were still "Lets Go Ambrose" and "We Want Ziggler", but it was short and fleeting. I would have preferred them to be more positive like chanting for Daniel Bryan, but there were a lot of people that were just like fuck it and he is not coming back. I think Reigns/Show/Kane woke the crowd out of the coma and we started booing the fuck of it. I am a bit disappointed we did not get "Roman Sucks" or "Die Roman Die" to really bring it full circle with The Rock in the ring. To the "Why didn't we leave", speaking for me and my brother, I did not pay a fortune and drive 10 hours round trip to leave early when I could at least boo the fuck out of Roman Reigns. Hell, I was telling my brother, that I didn't even think Ziggler was going to come out. My brother correctly predicted that Kane would eliminate him (well Big Show helped, so he got it mostly right). I did hang onto the silver of hope for Rusev because he was not an internet favorite that they may go with him. Â They definitely booked this knowing full well what will happen! Bryan was eliminated early to get the boos out early. They put Roman Reigns in and hide them because they are pussies! Show and Kane are pushed hard to fuck with us. The Rock which was just bullshit! Rusev was deliberately placed as a teaser to get our hopes, which was such one last ultimate fuck you! Dave Musgrave with kills it at the end with the Fast Lane tagline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZThomas Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Cena was in the Match before and he wasnt boo'd nearly as hard as I would think for that crowed. That 3 way was amazing all three were on point its ashame the Rumble finished overshadowed this. Â Like Keller said on Austins podcast today, Vince needs to stop fronting like he gives the fans what they want then the crowed shits all over the ending of one of your biggest ppvs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 There was a moment, a brief moment, maybe, where I thought there could be the throwing of things, in 2015. Â I agree with this also - after Reigns won and he just kept celebrating to a booing crowd. Enough was enough at that point. Happy it didn't happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Â There was a moment, a brief moment, maybe, where I thought there could be the throwing of things, in 2015. Â I agree with this also - after Reigns won and he just kept celebrating to a booing crowd. Enough was enough at that point. Happy it didn't happen though. Â Â Specifically, I was in the section where elements in the crowd handed out the "Ziggler Section" and "yes" paper signs, and I wouldn't have been overly surprised if people started balling those up and throwing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't know what was more brutal: the booking of Royal Rumble 2015 or Johnny trying to defend all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't know Matt, Johnny was making sense to me. Â This seemed to me like a failure on the agents' part on making the story compelling mechanically from an in ring perspective for the most part with the majority of the eliminations being afterthoughts. I think the overarching plot makes more sense than it is getting credit for, but it was executed poorly from a physical sense. Â From a larger macro view, I think the booking was designed in a way that makes sense if you look it as Mission: Roman Reigns Doesn't get Backlash. You knock Bryan out early so the hate doesn't poison the finish and you have Roman end up against Kane and Big Show because no one in the audience is going to want to cheer them over Reigns. If instead, Ziggler or Ambrose are there you are going to get a much more immediate bad reaction. This is the idea. The idea didn't work. But I can see the theory behind why they were doing what they were doing. The execution left a lot to be desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 The problem with that plan is that Big Show and specially Kane barely generate any kind of heat. You can't say a plan looks good when not even on paper those two dudes will be able to generate the heat they needed for Reigns to gain something from eliminating them. It's an idea that lacks any kind of context, can't give them credit or props for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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