JerryvonKramer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Austin, Rock, Taker, Kane, HHH, Foley, Angle It can be done No it can't. These guys were made at different times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think another thing they could do is have some more squashes on Raws. JTTS or jobbers. A guy like Rusev could get some mileage out of kicking the shit out of the Mulkeys. i think you've had this argument like 50 times on here lol they already did this with rusev to build him up in the first place. zack ryder, heath slater, xavier woods...those are the mulkeys of today. and that formula still works - besides rusev, it also got ryback over before he got jobbed out. thing is, you need a direction for these guys once they start mixing it up with the main eventers. part of what killed goldberg was that he went right back to squashing jobbers after losing the title, instead of getting revenge on the NWO. last night's show was not a good sign for rusev in that regard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Austin, Rock, Taker, Kane, HHH, Foley, Angle It can be done No it can't. These guys were made at different times. When they were "made" and when they were all pushed at the same time is a different point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Austin, Rock, Taker, Kane, HHH, Foley, Angle It can be done No it can't. These guys were made at different times. i would argue that rock, HHH, foley, and kane were all elevated in a similar timeframe. 1998 was the year that made all of them. it helps when you have guys so over that others don't even need to win to move up the card - they just have to hang in there with the top stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 You can push four established stars at the same time, you can't push four new stars at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Austin was made in 97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 You can push four established stars at the same time, you can't push four new stars at once. see my above post. another major part of that was that some of those guys were made through LOSING. foley-undertaker hell in a cell is the most obvious example, and there's also the rock-HHH ladder match that shot both of them up the card. heck, rock lost that match clean and he was the one who got the title later that year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Even if I grant they did do it, it's an exceptional case in history. And look at the cost: hotshotting the world title, wrestling on a bed of thumbtacks, breaking kayfabe to the point where it's now permanently broken. Quite an unfair paradigm to hold to the current era, and remarkably shortsighted of fans to expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 From 97-98, you had them pushing Austin, Rock, HHH and Kane as new, hot guys. Shamrock was new and getting pushed at that time as well. At the same time, you had Hart, Michaels, Taker and Sid hanging out at the top of the card. And, beyond that, there was an effort to get/keep a number of guys over on the midcard with varying degrees of success, but you could see the effort was there to give guys chances. The biggest thing was that the guys on top - Hart, Michaels, Taker - were more than willing to make the new guys look like they were on their level. Sunday, the established guys didn't really do that. Bryan won against 6 guys below him on the card, Rollins left as champ but was beat by a guy who won the World title the first time 11 years ago and won the title pinning a guy who's been wrestling for 4 years who wasn't even champion, Rusev was the best built heel they've done since possibly Rock and he lost to a guy who's had the longest non-stop run on top of just about anyone in company history in a feud set up in such a way that his loss had to happen (even to those of us who hoped against hope), and Wyatt - who while not great has SOMETHING that makes him interesting - loses to a 50 year old who shows up one day a year. None of those guys - save maybe Rusev - have been given the chance to be on the level with the top guys. And those top guys are all, at best, on the downside of their peak. The time to make new guys is now, but they seem hesitant to pull the trigger. I'll hope that Rollins gets a nice chicken heel run until at least Summerslam, but I won't hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lust Hogan Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Question: When Sting signed with WWE did he know he was losing to HHH? I wonder when this scenario was brought up and what was his initial response? Also what is the length of the contract he signed? Was Sting REALLY just brought back for merchandise sales and to rub salt in an old wound (Monday Night Wars)??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sting never had a problem losing to someone. And, to be honest, there was absolutely no story between Sting and HHH, so they went with the only tenuous ties to each other they had. Despite Sting's efforts to not make it about that. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Based on what I saw from Raw Lesnar was the only guy elevated at Mania. Rollins I guess just by holding the belt is slightly elevated though he feels like a lame duck champ with a supporting cast that has go away heat. Reigns was back to the same crap that didn't work before Mania, and showed no signs that he was in the fight of his life the night before. Rusev seemed like any other mid carder on the show, and Bray couldn't even show his face after jobbing to an old immobile corpse. That's not even taking into account the treatment of Sting. Looking back on it this Mania left a bad taste in my mouth booking wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think HHH wants to put Reigns over sometime this year. If that's the case, then putting Sting over too would hurt a Reigns win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Interested to see Parv address the main point of my macro v. micro booking point. The problem of Rusev is enhanced because NO ONE other than the established old guard, retirees, and movie stars are treated like stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Rusev not kicking out of the AA is even worse with Dean Ambrose kicking out of it on Raw and then continuing on in the match for a long time. I don't know if there was a way Rusev could have lost that wouldn't hurt him at all, but they could have hurt him a lot less than getting beat by a move that EVERYONE kicks out of the first time it gets hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Exposer theorized Rusev should have passed out in the STF. Could have saved his "never pinned or submitted" title and it still would have been decisive. Also would have put him over as tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Exposer theorized Rusev should have passed out in the STF. Could have saved his "never pinned or submitted" title and it still would have been decisive. Also would have put him over as tough. It would have worked but Cena would have actually needed to apply some pressure for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Wiz Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Exposer theorized Rusev should have passed out in the STF. Could have saved his "never pinned or submitted" title and it still would have been decisive. Also would have put him over as tough. Would have been a nice call back to their previous match too. Oh logic..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think HHH wants to put Reigns over sometime this year. If that's the case, then putting Sting over too would hurt a Reigns win. Yeah, that makes sense to me. HHH has been doing nothing but losing in his rare matches the last few years. Lost to Taker twice. Won against Brock in the first match but lost in convincing fashion in the next two. Lost to Bryan. He'd been on quite the losing streak........which is why him and Sting didn't really make sense because ideally Sting in his first WM match should win.....but HHH couldn't afford to lose.......quite the booking predicament they put themselves in there. But, Sting wanted to work with HHH....and credit where credit is due HHH is a great ring general and carried Sting to a really good match......and I wasn't even bothered that HHH won........but I don't know........maybe the smart thing to do was knowing this match was happening build up HHH for a match with whoever in Jan-Feb and give him a strong dominant win.....so him losing to Sting at WM wouldn't look so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 LOL at calling that debacle "a really good match" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I said it in the 32 prediction thread but HHH is the only Brock opponent who hasn't been completely mauled by him. All of their matches were worked 50/50. Gotta keep Hunter strong for when they meet next. The booking comedy of HHH vs Sting will pale in comparison to Team UFC vs Team Authority next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I hate myself but I'm honestly kind of looking forward to the eventual Steph MMA training videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I hate myself but I'm honestly kind of looking forward to the eventual Steph MMA training videos. I was thinking more along the lines of Double J MMA but actually played straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Exposer theorized Rusev should have passed out in the STF. Could have saved his "never pinned or submitted" title and it still would have been decisive. Also would have put him over as tough. It would have worked but Cena would have actually needed to apply some pressure for once. I agree with the idea in theory, but yep, Cena has the worst STF I've ever seen. Erik Watts did it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I really think it's intentional though. Austin called him on it on his podcast and the response indicated that Cena is aware of what he's doing and is doing it on purpose, whether for the safety of kids at home who might try it or for the same reason that Bryan got fired for the tie-choke or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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