The Comprehensive All Japan 1990's Thread

[Tawren]

All this '93 talk....... I've a lot of watching ahead of me

Yeah I'm doing something similar except I'm starting with a lot of 80's stuff I haven't seen at the same time. But I love hearing about this era anyways.

[benjaminkicks]

That list at the beginning of this topic is really helpful. I'm going through the 90's All Japan stuff right now, and I had a big list of all the matches I need to watch from 1990 until the exodus, but my laptop is trash and the file I had it in got corrupted.

 

I would love to see lists like that for the rest of the years in the decade. They would be very helpful to me and much appreciated.

[BigBadMick]

Ok, Doc and Gordy - what's going on there?

 

Parv talked at length in his podcast about their rep. In the early 1990s they had glowing testimonials about their work.

I really liked the Hansen/Tenryu match in April 90, and a few select others from the year (a Tsurata/Kabuki match has great sympathy on Kabuki) but generally it's aimless enough until a hot finish. I suppose getting to that is an accomplishment in itself - the hot finishes in themselves are worth something.

 

Do they get worse from 1990 to 1993?

[dawho5]

They get better after 1991, but I hated watching them in that year. It seemed like they took the idea of being pushed as "take 80% of the offense in the early match." And they seem to like just laying/standing around in rest holds. Worst match for me was when Misawa/Kawada turned the tables and laid around in rest holds for the majority of the early match. It seemed like some kind of Bizarro Hell wrestling match.

[BigBadMick]

Took a little break there but started 1991 with a bang this morning.

 

I see Chad's point about the escalation in Kobashi/Hansen - he's just giving him a little more each time out and the crowd are biting on it nicely. Liked the fact that an umbrella was used to heat up the Kawada/Taue feud, and then they just assaulted each other at ringside during the battle royal. Speaking of which, I'd never seen any here, and had heard there reputation for being awful, but it was quick enough and a few angles were furthered in it.

 

Nice start to the year.

[pol]

I'm up to 98 in my own journey through this stuff. What was with the Misawa -> Taue -> Kobashi -> Misawa route the TC took late 96/early 97? 01/20/97 seems like the perfect time for Kobashi to finally get his win over Misawa, especially when they ended up giving it away on an untelevised CC stop just a couple months later.

 

Kawada finally getting his win over Misawa under the cheapest circumstances possible around the same time is another weird, questionable booking decision.

[dawho5]

The fact that Kawada took until 98 to get his first "real" singles win over Misawa seems pretty widely accepted as the main reason Kawada was never truly seen as capable of being an ace regardless of what came after. It also seems to be seen as one of Baba's big booking errors. My own feeling is that Kobashi being the secondary ace rather than Kawada is largely due to his comparably meteoric rise. I know it took a while, but when you compare it to how long it took Kawada to beat Misawa in a contested singles match it was really fast. Also factor in that Taue had beaten Misawa in singles competition well before Kawada had.

 

I will say for the 1997 Kawada "win" that Kawada's facial expressions during that few minutes were absolutely sublime.

[Grimmas]

Can anyone explain the history of the formation of the Holy Demon Army? On today's Excite Series we are going over the Taue-Kawada match from the Carnival and then a tag match with Taue-Kawada vs Misawa/Kobashi in June 93. Why did Kawada leave Misawa to team with Taue?

I always assumed it was a respect deal, but how did they explain it?

[pol]

I'd also be interested in knowing more about that. It's worth watching Kawada/Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Taue/Fuchi/Ogawa 04/21/93, his last match teaming with Misawa's side. Kawada makes several nods towards Taue during the match including using the Nodowa Otoshi. At the end he raises his partners' hands and is visibly tearing up. Strange deal.

[dawho5]

I doubt it had to do with much besides necessity and fit. Without Jumbo the war was really one-sided. Sure Taue was a big name, but even Jumbo with Taue would have been hard pressed to hold off Misawa, a much improved Kawada to the point of being almost on Misawa's level and a heavily pushed Kobashi. Taue had at best Fuchi on his side, and Fuchi was behind Kobashi before the 1993 Kobashi push. Sure Akiyama and Ogawa were around, but that wasn't going to compare to the firepower on the other side. So you look at Misawa's side and Kawada is easily the most heelish of the bunch. Kobashi is 100% pure babyface and Misawa is the reason his "side" exists. So you pull the guy who is closest to Misawa in card placement, who is also easily as prickish as Taue in a different way, and put him in the top spot opposite Misawa with a role reversal. Instead of Misawa chasing down Jumbo, Kawada is emerging from Misawa's shadow and wants to take on his former squad leader to prove that he can be just as big. It also frees up Akiyama to go to his more natural side in the face/heel spectrum at this point. It's also been suggested on this site that Kawada and Taue knew how to bring the best out in one another and teaming them made a lot of sense because of that. I figure it was the only viable option for Baba at that point that didn't involve bringing in outside talent.

[Tim Cooke]

Fuchi was slowing down so Akiyama was essentially Taue's number two. Once it was recognized that Jumbo wasn't coming back, the move had to be made.

 

Taue and Kawada went to a 30 minute draw in the Carnival. They shook hands afterwards. Kawada started with Taue on the next tour.

 

I think jdw has gone in depth on this in the past but am having trouble finding the thread.

[Superstar Sleeze]

DaWho covered the booking impetus very well. Just simple booking equilibrium, they had a void at the heel number one spot and they had a number two babyface that would be perennially in the shadow of the ace face. They did Misawa/Kawada in October of 1992, there was not much growth to be had in a babyface vs babyface rivalry. It was time to let Kawada grow into the leader of his own army and let Misawa vs Kawada rivalry really take center stage. Move him over to number one heel, you give Misawa's his arch rival, elevate Kawada and fill a void. Just so much win there for Baba.

 

Tim Cooke covered the kayfabe perspective as well as I have heard it and my source is also jdw from one of the 93 threads in the yearbook section.

[PeteF3]

Kawada jumping ship felt, from a kayfabe standpoint, more like a player leaving a team via free agency (or by transfer, for the Euros) than a wrasslin'-style "turn."

[jdw]

Yeah... old thing talked probably in a load of threads here.

 

It was known before the Carny that Kawada was heading over to team with Taue. Baba asked him. Hence the emotion in the Carny: the shaking of the hands with Taue after their draw to "end" their rivalry, and in the last six man tag where he was emotional rather than pulling a Choshu-Fujinami.

 

Worth remembering that when Jun returned at the end of the Super Power Series (he'd been hurt during Carny), he was instantly paired with Misawa to signal that he would be switching over to that side. In the series after, he was in the six-man that opened the series and was the main on TV.

 

Fuchi never was an option to be a #2, anymore than he had been for Jumbo when Yatsu and Kabuki went to SWS. Jun was far too young to be a #2, and it seemed that by that point the Babas sense he was more of a face/technico than a heel/rudo. This had the right balance:

 

1. Misawa

2. Kawada

3. Taue

4. Kobashi

 

Turned into:

 

#1 Misawa & #4 Kobashi vs #2 Kawada & #3 Taue

 

The #2 & #3 guys had no wins over #1 (and wouldn't until 1996 in singles), but #4 had never beaten #2 & #3 at that point (and wouldn't until 1996 in singles).

 

Balance. Or... harmony.

 

They also went out of their way in the new series to try to get across the "teamwork" of the new pairing of Kawada & Taue in the sense of them getting along, and the old rivalry had been buried.

[pol]

Rewatching the Kawada/Misawa feud, to me 7/24/95 feels like the point at which the story fell off a cliff. After taking Misawa to the brink in 6/3/94, the time limit draw in the 95 Carny and then finally getting the pinfall over him in 6/9/95, there was nowhere for the story to go but Kawada finally defeating his nemesis in a singles match. The subsequent matches are no doubt good to great in a vacuum, but feel flat to me because the story was no longer progressing in a logical way. It's a real shame because I think the way All Japan told long unfolding stories via in-ring action is pretty much unrivalled by any other promotion, but they really dropped the ball there creatively even if it didn't hurt business.

[jdw]

The problem is that (i) Misawa just won the TC back in May, (ii) Misawa was the Ace starting his 2nd reign, (iii) this was his first defense, and (iv) Kawada just beat him in the tag title match.

 

The timing sucked.

 

Ace's in Baba's mind don't instantly drop the title in the first defense of their second reigns after getting their belts back. They re-establish themselves as the Ace.

 

Baba lost the Int'l Title to Bobo Brazil in June 1968, insantly won it back, and then ran off 18 straight successful defenses before dropping it two and a half years later.

 

Jumbo dropped the Int'l Title to Hansen in July 1986, won it back in October of the same year, then ran off five defenses before dropping it to Brody in March 1988.

 

You could mix in when Baba got the PWF Title back after it bounced from Baba to Kamata to Billy to Abby before landing back with him: he ran off another 15 straight defenses from 1979-82 before dropping it to Harley.

 

They just didn't treat the title(s) like late 90s / early 00s style WCW & WWF world titles bouncing around.

 

So...

 

Anyone paying attention pretty much knew Misawa was retaining his title, and would go on a run with the belt. He wasn't "ripe" to drop the title again until mid-96 when he'd effectively run the table again. Taue was a surprise because (i) people expected it to finally be Kawada's turn, and (ii) Doc had just returned and in theory they would want Misawa to avenge his TC loss to Doc from 1994. That got butchered too...

 

In 1994, the right person won.

 

In 1995, one would need to book backwards from whenever Kawada was suppose to win and do things quite differently. It wasn't really that horrid at the time, especially since El Super Clasico was so satisfying of a win.

 

1996... the TC booking was butchered... time and again.

[soup23]

Do you think John they could have done something like Doc as a defense in place of Kawada and had Misawa avenge his 7/94 loss? I agree with you that Misawa beating Kawada here wasn't a surprise but I question the match booking in the first place. I have been amazed rewatching Misawa and Kobashi that in my opinion they don't really cross this edge until 6/1999. I can see how 10/97 and 10/98 could feel that way at points to some but they each found new grounds that kept things interesting to me. In contrast to Kawada vs. Misawa, Kobashi and Misawa learned their lesson and didn't have a high profile singles match after 6/99 until 3/03. Misawa and Kawada did take a bit of time off on TC defenses (23 months) but still 6/97 felt like even more of a betrayal of a match and really makes 5/98 feel like such a lesser crowning moment than it really should have even though that is a match I really enjoy despite its flaws.

[jdw]

By 7/95, Doc had the Narita Nightmare and was on the sidelines for a year: out arriving for Carny 1995 and then allowed back into the country come Carny 1996. So they couldn't run Misawa-Doc in 1995.

 

There's zero doubt that they would have run Doc-Misawa in 1995 at one of the Budokan's and Misawa would have gotten his win back. They just couldn't.

 

Could they have run it in 1996? Sure. Not entirely sure why they didn't, other than Kawada going in the doghouse, Taue getting a push to the title, Kawada being put in his place jobbing to Taue, and the Baba accidentally kneecapping Taue's by having him job the title to Kobashi. To get to Misawa-Doc in 1996 in a TC match, they would have had to skip Taue winning the title. When Taue went over Doc in the Carny Final, one kind of thought the next day that they would go:

 

6/96 Misawa vs Taue yet again

7/96 Misawa vs Doc

 

Which left 9/96 for Misawa-Kawada / Misawa-Kobashi, 10/96 for Misawa-Kawada if you go Misawa-Kobashi first or as Kawada vs Challenger is Misawa-Kawada happened in 9/96 and Kawada won. That's why I tend to go looking for something earlier than 1996 to see if the elements were in place already.

 

What the Babas' plans were at the start of the year... who knows. Perhaps they planned on Kawada winning Carny again and then winning the title from Misawa at the 6/96 Budokan. And perhaps those plans went out the window when he went in the doghouse, and Taue+Kobashi got "his spot".

 

* * * * *

 

On when the promotion went over the edge, I think it was easily there by 1996. Even something as great as 12/06/96 had them dropping each other on their heads quite a bit.

[Timbo Slice]

So what was the Narita Nightmare again? I'm foggy on what happened.

[jdw]

Coming in for the 1995 Carny, Doc got busted bring drugs into country at Narita Airport. You may recall what happened to Paul McCartney when he was caught bringing dope into the country in 1980:

 

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/paul-mccartney-is-released-from-a-tokyo-jail-and-deported-from-japan

 

In the case of Doc, he wasn't officially arrested or charged with anything. He was put on a plain back to the US, and indefinitely banned from the country. Always was pointed to as a sign of Baba's connections that not only was nothing official done, but that Doc could come back in after a year.

 

Anyway... he was out from the 1995 Carny Series until returning for the 1996 Carny series. It thinned out the gaijin side at a time when Hansen was declining and Doc was pretty much at his peak. Doc wasn't quite the same when returning.

[PeteF3]

One of my main takeaways as I near the end of 1996 is that Kobashi is getting quite the Rey Misterio-as-World-Champion-style title reign. He couldn't beat Kawada in his first defense. He's still working as an underneath babyface in the RWTL matches, the blame for which may be just as much on him as on the booker. And while I get the double round-robin format allowed for more upsets than a typical AJPW tourney, I remain baffled by the decision to job him to Gary Albright. I also don't get the vibe that he and Patriot are serious contenders to walk home with the trophy in the end (even accounting that we already know what the final match is). Not sure that's really a good place for your Triple Crown champion to be.

[jdw]

Kobashi's first defense was the win over Hansen at the 9/96 Budokan. The the defense against Kawada at the 10/96, and then the unsuccessful defense against Misawa in 1/97.

 

Agree that Kobashi worked is mostly the fault of Kobashi, but people in the promotion always tended to let him work however he wanted to work. He didn't seem to have restrictor plates on at any point. That he was still working as Crybashi even after he became the TC Champ was a real time running complaint by me by 1997. Kobashi Fans at the time didn't like the criticism.

 

* * * * *

 

Izumida pinned Akiyama and Patriot pinned Kawada on opening night. Those were bigger upsets than Kobashi jobbing to Albright. Kobashi already jobbed to Gary in the six-man on the 4/96 Budokan, and then Kawada did a (in the doghouse) singles job to Gary on the 7/96 Budokan. Add in Gary challenging Misawa for the TC on the 2/96 Budokan. He was higher on the pecking order than Patriot, Jun and Ace, none of whom had a TC challenge at the time nor singles wins over any of the Four Corners.

 

So it wasn't a massive upset. I was fine with it at the time. Patriot over Kawada pissed me off at the time, though I had no problem with it come 12/6.

 

 

* * * * *

Gary was stuck with a crappy partner, and it was a two tiered (Top 4 Teams + 3 Bottom Feeders Teams) far more than prior years.

 

In the past you tended to have the true contenders, be they just two teams (in 1995) or "four across" (1990-91).

 

You then had teams that weren't really contenders, but got wins against everyone but the top teams and looked "competitive" against the top teams. The 1992 Baba & Kobashi teams was like that, and perhaps the Funks in 1990.

 

On occasion you'd get a special team like Baba & Andre who would end up close to the top in points, but weren't going to really win it. Baba & Andre actually finished tied for 2nd in 1991, and probably had a few points on the table left in 1990 when Baba broke his leg. Baba tended to "protect" teams like that.

 

Then below those groups you have the chum that got beat up in points, and tended finish with points that reflected where they ranked in the pecking order. In 1994, the Can-Ams were ahead of Akiyama & Omori, who in turn were ahead of Abby & Kimala II though Kimala would do all the jobs.

 

1996 was a mess. Contenders, then chum. They could have put Hansen & Gary together as they did in January when they were pushed to the title. But in a double round robin where they would have needed to work 8 matches against the other top teams, with most of those going 20+, and with the need for Hansen or Gary to do jobbing, I can get why they skipped it.

 

So on some level this was the bone thrown to him, leading into teaming with Stan early the next year. He got to beat Kobashi. Since Carny was three series away, it gave a little story heading in there.

[pol]

Was just thinking the other day that it seemed odd that the Can Ams were never pushed beyond the level of a midcard tag team. Was it just a matter of them being too small to be gaijin main eventers? Kroffat being Jr. Heavyweight champion while being clearly bigger than Kawada seems bizarre.

[PeteF3]

I'm just embarrassed to have forgotten that Kobashi-Hansen match already. That was on the Yearbook and well-loved and everything. Still, point stands.

 

I think AJPW's limit on the Jr. title was 105 kg, as opposed to NJPW's 100 kg (220 pounds). Still, as good as the matches were, yeah, Kroffat as a junior was kind of an odd sight.

[dawho5]

Is it possible that he got the Jr. belt when he actually was within weight limitations then gained weight? I know a lot of juniors guys who go heavyweight don't get a ton of respect after they switch divisions. And Kawada was a really short heavyweight. I wonder if it isn't a blessing in disguise that early career Kawada never got a junior title run because that might have served more as a long term stigma than a notch on his belt.