Women in the WWE

[Matt D]

 

 

What evidence is there that a large percentage of people are turned off by the WWE's treatment of women?

There is none. It's just a thought, since they don't get many women viewers.

 

 

Has an increase in female viewership ever been attributable to female talent?

 

Are we counting the Dawn Marie/Torrie Wilson/Al Wilson storyline?

[goc]

I think having actual episodic television with interesting storylines that build week by week would do more to bring in a female audience than pushing the women's division really hard. From everything I've heard the biggest hit they ever had with their female audience was the HHH/Steph/Kurt love triangle.

[Grimmas]

I think having actual episodic television with interesting storylines that build week by week would do more to bring in a female audience than pushing the women's division really hard. From everything I've heard the biggest hit they ever had with their female audience was the HHH/Steph/Kurt love triangle.

why?

 

Why wouldn't women get excited to watch a woman succeed?

[goc]

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

[WingedEagle]

 

 

 

What evidence is there that a large percentage of people are turned off by the WWE's treatment of women?

There is none. It's just a thought, since they don't get many women viewers.

 

 

Has an increase in female viewership ever been attributable to female talent?

 

Have they ever treated women talent well?

 

 

I'm referring to any promotion ever. Outside of joshi groups in Japan, when have female fans packed the house to see female talent? At the end of the day wrestling is more like sports than other TV/entertainment, which mean its going to attract a heavier male audience.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

 

What evidence is there that a large percentage of people are turned off by the WWE's treatment of women?

There is none. It's just a thought, since they don't get many women viewers.

 

 

Has an increase in female viewership ever been attributable to female talent?

 

Have they ever treated women talent well?

 

 

I'm referring to any promotion ever. Outside of joshi groups in Japan, when have female fans packed the house to see female talent? At the end of the day wrestling is more like sports than other TV/entertainment, which mean its going to attract a heavier male audience.

 

When was a time that women were put into a position to draw outside of joshi?

 

I can think of one place, NXT, and it worked.

[Grimmas]

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me.

[Dylan Waco]

This deserves its own thread.

[Sean Liska]

I have no problem with women getting main events, but that means they should be just as good of overall performers as WWE's male headliners, or else it's just a novelty/charity thing. I'm not sure the current women fit that bill outside of Sasha Banks.

[goc]

 

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me.

 

Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will.

 

What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"?

[Grimmas]

 

 

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me.

 

Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will.

 

What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"?

 

Children and minis are not the same. Minis are small men, not children.

 

It works in NXT and joshi was huge in Japan when it was a hugely pushed thing. What other reason would you need to try?

 

5 years ago, yeah, there wasn't the talent. Now, you have Sasha and Charlotte who you can build around.

[goc]

 

 

 

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me.

 

Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will.

 

What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"?

 

Children and minis are not the same. Minis are small men, not children.

 

It works in NXT and joshi was huge in Japan when it was a hugely pushed thing. What other reason would you need to try?

 

5 years ago, yeah, there wasn't the talent. Now, you have Sasha and Charlotte who you can build around.

 

Thank you for talking to me like I'm a fucking idiot. I did not know that kids and minis are not the same. I thought it was some slick thing Mexican promoters were doing to get around child labor laws.

 

Also why are you now bringing joshi into the argument when you dismissed SHIMMER earlier because it's "completely a women's promotion"?

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

 

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument.

 

We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me.

 

Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will.

 

What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"?

 

Children and minis are not the same. Minis are small men, not children.

 

It works in NXT and joshi was huge in Japan when it was a hugely pushed thing. What other reason would you need to try?

 

5 years ago, yeah, there wasn't the talent. Now, you have Sasha and Charlotte who you can build around.

 

Thank you for talking to me like I'm a fucking idiot. I did not know that kids and minis are not the same. I thought it was some slick thing Mexican promoters were doing to get around child labor laws.

 

Also why are you now bringing joshi into the argument when you dismissed SHIMMER earlier because it's "completely a women's promotion"?

 

Stage. AJW had a WWE level of stage. SHIMMER is an indie.

[Grimmas]

All posts moved here.

[Matt D]

Part of me thinks that the audience they can draw in with Total Divas is at odds with the audience they could draw in by focusing on Bayley and also with the audience they could draw in with Sasha Banks workrate classics. That's either part of the problem or can be presented as part of the problem by conservative elements inside the company who don't want change.

[Badlittlekitten]

 

I can think of one place, NXT, and it worked.

Are you saying the women in NXT are money drawing stars? How did you calculate that?

 

She's charismatic but I'm not sure I'd want a pushed division built around Charlotte Flair. She kinda stinks.

[Grimmas]

 

I can think of one place, NXT, and it worked.

Are you saying the women in NXT are money drawing stars? How did you calculate that?

 

She's charismatic but I'm not sure I'd want a pushed division built around Charlotte Flair. She kinda stinks.

 

They headlined one of the house shows last weekend.

 

Charlotte has been in too many really good matches at such a young level of experience to say she stinks.

[Badlittlekitten]

Could you list them for me. The Natalya match was awesome although it was majorly helped by the story and bells and whistles.

[WingedEagle]

I don't think the Total Divas audience has any interest in wrestling or ever will. Its into a reality show that follows a certain formula and is presented in a familiar style and forum. Its wrestling. Some women will like it but any notion of building a significant female audience outside the margins of historical norms doesn't strike me as remotely realistic. Perhaps more women are watching Ronda Rousey in UFC than were watching Anderson Silva, but Rousey is a success because men will pay to see her. If you make the female product appealing to the base it will succeed. Trying to carve out some completely new audience for it will likely backfire in every sense.

[Grimmas]

Could you list them for me. The Natalya match was awesome although it was majorly helped by the story and bells and whistles.

Natayla. Sasha. 4-Way. Bayley.

 

Every featured match she has had on a special was really good.

[dawho5]

I agree that Charlotte's run as champ has been the best female wrestling presented under the WWE banner that I've ever seen. And it's not just Charlotte. Bayley and Sasha are really really good at their roles with Becky Lynch coming in at least strong on the in-ring side of things. She needs some work on what exactly her character is, but she's definitely delivered during matches. I don't necessarily agree that female wrestling is going to bring in more female viewers. I do think that if done right it can do just as well with male viewers as the men's matches, but we can probably all agree that won't be happening on the main shows any time soon. That being said, I'm a huge fan of the women's division on NXT and how well the major players work in their face/heel roles. Sasha is an incredible heel, Charlotte is the strong face and Bayley is great as the female Sami Zayn. She doesn't quite have the level of charisma or in-ring panache Zayn does, but she's the lovable underdog with the right kind of charisma to keep the fans on her side through all the losses. Once Becky Lynch decides to be something besides Lita version 2.0 and finds a character of her own she will also be the complete package. Carmella and Alexa Bliss need quite a bit of work before they catch up.

 

Edit: I kind of wish they had left Paige and Emma in NXT right now. They would have a really strong women's division with some very interesting rivalries instead of turning Emma into a glorified jobber.

[Goodear]

Whats interesting right now about NXT Women's Division is that actually feels like a division where people beyond just the title feud have angles and storylines. Can you remember the last women's feud in WWE that did not involve the title belt in some fashion? Its really the only way that the women are going to be able to demonstrate an aptitude to working angles and get more over. I don't see the downside into exploring a women's division when WWE Prime has so many hours of programming to fill and demographics that can be reached through exposing female talent to the main audience. Its not like every male star is drawing major cash either, so what is the harm in attempting to diversify the portfolio?

[sek69]

Everyone here makes good points, but again as long as Vince/Dunn are in charge nothing will change. NXT could do an all women show where every match is 4 stars and above, and Vince will still think the women's division are all interchangeable catty bitches to have 2 minute matches with.

[sek69]

[Tim Evans]

Grimmas, have you seen Charlotte vs divas like Summer Rae, Alexa Bliss and some of the main roster divas? The Summer Rae match in particular was one of the worst matches I saw all last year. Charlotte is good when in the ring with world class workers like Sasha and Becky. I don't think she's ready for the main roster yet and her promo work is bad. And did they announce that Sasha/Charlotte was going to be the main event of the house show before the NXT house show started? I don't see how that can count as them being able to draw that crowd.

 

With that being said, I think the divas could at least main event tv some day. It would take the main announcers and Vince taking it seriously and not making jokes during matches.