Sean Liska Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 So I'll admit I'm not someone that's been super-passionate about the #givedivasachance deal. I haven't gotten too wrapped up in whether Paige and Brie Bella get 3 minutes or 8 minutes on RAW. There are plenty of solid talents who get short-changed on time in WWE.But I absolutely do believe that Sasha Banks is one of the best all-around young performers in wrestling. She's in the same category for me as wrestlers like Owens, Ambrose, Rollins, Zayn, etc. The Takeover match with Becky Lynch was not only great, but the intensity with which she worked Becky's arm throughout the match was like something I would have loved from an 80's match. She exudes a star presence just walking to the ring that's superior to 90% of the roster.So what's her ceiling on the main roster? We're in new territory here with an American female performer who's this good. Will she have 4* PPV matches that win "Best Match" in the WO poll? Will she be featured in top-of-the-hour segments regularly? Does she have the talent around her that she needs to reach her potential? Will they give up on this new women's division by the time football season starts? Because if her career goes to waste and she spends her time working 4-minute TV matches with storylines that are given no thought, it will be as much of a shame as Samoa Joe spending his peak in TNA. With her talent and only being 23, she should have an HOF career from a performance standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 There's really two avenues for your questions. 1) What is Sasha herself capable of? 2) Will WWE change the way they treat women wrestlers anytime soon? The answer to 2 is pretty simple for me, no. As long as Vince and Dunn are in charge I see no reason to believe that Sasha will be given any different treatment than Paige, Emma, Alicia Fox, Nattie, etc. She'll be stripped of character and fluctuate from heel to face depending on the day. She'll be in four minute matches where the announcers would rather talk about anything but what is happening in the ring. Sasha Banks will be a wasted talent in the WWE. I'd love to be wrong, but after decades of women being treated a certain way in WWF/E I don't see them changing just for Sasha. The answer to 1 is also pretty simple for me; Sasha is capable of anything and everything. I truly believe she is a special talent, the sort that only comes around every once in a while. She's tremendous in the ring, she's already one of the best in the world in that regard. She also gets the character aspect of wrestling better than 99% of the roster. She lives and breathes her character and works her character into the way she wrestles. She very much has a Ric Flair as heel champion vibe to the way she carries herself as champion. Given the opportunity I know that Sasha could have great matches on a consistent basis, produce plenty of fabulous performances, be involved in interesting angles, and be in MOTYC's year in and year out. She could go down as one of the all time bestgreats because she's that talented and has that high of a ceiling. But, it all comes down to environment and she is not in an environment on the main roster where any of that will come to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Also, if any woman is going to get the push as THE Diva of the division, it will be Charlotte, not Sasha. At best, I see Sasha being the Psychosis to Charlotte's Rey (not comparing their ring work, just the dynamic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Also, if any woman is going to get the push as THE Diva of the division, it will be Charlotte, not Sasha. At best, I see Sasha being the Psychosis to Charlotte's Rey (not comparing their ring work, just the dynamic). I don't know, last night kind of hit home how unprepared Charlotte is for the spotlight relative to Sasha, and even Becky. I'm not saying they won't push Charlotte as the game changer, but Charlotte's someone who needs to be led, not lead herself and that's why her as the game changer will probably fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Is there any reason at all to keep Cameron employed now other than Total Divas? It seems like Sasha does a very similar gimmick much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Cameron isn't even on Total Divas anymore, she's been dropped for the new series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 It was kind of a bummer knowing how WWE Creative works to see that the best idea they seemingly had for Sasha was to put her on Team People of Color with Naomi and Tamina. If she's going to have to be in a group she needs to be the clear leader to be able to get over her BOSS gimmick and not be positioned as the Young Girl of the "veterans". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Psst...you do know this is the WWE, right? For all the lip service Stephanie does about the divas and for all the good they do with the NXT women's division, this is still Vince McMahon's WWE. I have ZERO good expectations for Sasha or any one that is called up on the main roster that is a woman. ZERO. To answer, yes it will be all forgotten about and swept under the rug once the feel good story of the women's soccer team fades out and men's sports takes dominance again. I would be shocked if they gave Sasha a 20 minute per show role as a wrestler. Maybe she will go the AJ route and be booked all over the show as some jezebel who messes with men wrestlers but no...not as a wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, I'm royally pissed at this development. She was one of the few workers I enjoyed around the main event level of NXT the last month or so. Bayley not being around hasn't helped much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Psst...you do know this is the WWE, right? For all the lip service Stephanie does about the divas and for all the good they do with the NXT women's division, this is still Vince McMahon's WWE. I have ZERO good expectations for Sasha or any one that is called up on the main roster that is a woman. ZERO. To answer, yes it will be all forgotten about and swept under the rug once the feel good story of the women's soccer team fades out and men's sports takes dominance again. I would be shocked if they gave Sasha a 20 minute per show role as a wrestler. Maybe she will go the AJ route and be booked all over the show as some jezebel who messes with men wrestlers but no...not as a wrestler. Yeah but I also think that talent tends to eventually win out in WWE. Whether it's Piper being brought in just to be a manager at first or Rey Mysterio or Eddie Guerrero or Daniel Bryan all those years later, it usually happens. But Sasha needs a dance partner that will make it worth Vince's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't know. It would require a major culture change in the creative booking room for me to see them give the women a fair shot. At the heart of it, pro wrestling is really a men's thing. Yes we all enjoy and appreciate what someone like Sasha does but for her to be a "franchise changer", she has to be booked as an equal to the men storylines without reducing her to a role that I alluded to, a jezebel or a damsel in distress or even a non-wrestler (but that isn't what you want, right? You want her wrestling as well). There has been topics here on PWO in the recent past about if women's wrestling can be a main event on a pay per view or a top of line angle on the main shows, and I remain unconvinced. You said Sasha needs a dance partner? No. She needs a dance club filled with different partners. Giving her one rival is only going to go so far before burning the feud and in the process the characters out. To be a viable long term featured performer she is going to need at least 3 to 5 viable partners, and that is just in her first 2-3 years given the structure of their storytelling model. It ain't happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I know it's out of WWE's wheelhouse, but who are the best women in Japan right now, and do any of them meet WWE's standards for physical appearance? I'd ask the same question about Shimmer. Just wondering if the talent exists out there that WWE could make her a star on the same level as the men even if they did all the right things. For that matter, how are the luchadoras these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Apparently they did tryout two women wrestlers on the recent Japan tour. One of them was Nikki Storm, who was on tour over there and would be a GREAT pick-up, but the other (whose name escapes me) was Japanese, which at least implies they're willing to look at women in Japan. They need to pick up some more experienced talent soon, the likes of Dana Brooke and Alexa Bliss can only learn so much wrestling each other. On the subject of luchadoras, is Sarah Stock still involved with training at the Performance Centre, or was that just a short term thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sasha Banks is a talent that exists out there that the WWE could make a star on the same level as the men even if they did all the right things. They have that transdescant talent already. To actually answer the question, I am not sure really. I cannot actually name anyone off the top of my head. And to go back to the WWE's own history, I also cannot find anyone in their long and storied annals (or any of the promotions that preceded modern WWE either) a woman who stood out as someone who was used well and her popularity maximized in a positive way. Yes we see girls like Sable and Sunny reach impressive heights in their time but they were promoted for everything that you're not going to appreciate if done for Sasha. You also have girls like Trish Stratus who is held in high regard by the WWE but again, she was initially promoted as a sexual being and they only fleshed out her wrestling background in a manner only described as adequate by WWE standards and quite subpar by global standards. Then there's Chyna...and well...we know her deal. The women before them like Alundra Blayze, Bertha Faye, etc were never really presented as anything resembling equals to the men and were used mostly as a sideshow attraction thing. Obviously we have Japanese women wrestling which obviously were treated better nationally and through hardcore wrestling circles but they never reached international fame really. But that's not their fault. Not many men reached that level either. But the women were lesser so on scale even in that respect anyways. No idea about luchadoras so someone else can deal with that but I haven't heard of anyone mentioned the same way I do the Santos, Negro Casas, Rey, Psicosis, etc etc so I'm guessing not. Again this is an entertainment geared towards men. There's something not quite so mainstream accepted about women being taken seriously in the battle arenas. Obviously people here might pull up Ronda Rousey of the UFC but first of all, UFC is a legitimate fighting sport. It is an actual sport...like women's soccer. Like tennis. Like WNBA (although not many people treat that one seriously either). It is a skill based sport where Rousey gets to show off her otherworldly abilities against women. She is being presented as an once in a lifetime sorta individual within that sport. She stands alone in her own world within UFC. She isn't being presented as a person who has been assimilated within the men's portion of the sport. The WWE isn't a sport. Pro wrestling isn't a sport even though the athletic aspect is a big component of its presentation. Pro wrestling is a battle form of soap opera or story telling. And in my humble opinion...men who watch wrestling...and worse yet/more importantly men who runs wrestling...just do not care to expand the women's spotlight. But at least its not midget wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I mean, what you say may be true, but I think it's a defeatist outlook to just assume it will never work and not even support the attempts to try something different. Believe me, I have my doubts about WWE's ability to be patient and see it through, just as I have my doubts about how well they will execute it even if the intentions are mostly good. But some of those details will matter in the long-term, while some will be forgotten and will not. And if it goes well, they could attract more women and bring in a new part of their fanbase, maybe (maybe) even one with more disposable income. If it doesn't succeed, it's not like they are going to alienate anyone. People are not going to give up on WWE if the women are more featured, provided those involved are talented. Taking a chance on making real top stars out of Sasha Banks and Charlotte seems like a low-risk, high-reward proposition. If it doesn't work, they at least have a better match to put in the bathroom break spot than they do now. If it works, sky's the limit and all of that. ETA: One of WWE's biggest problems right now is their irrational fear of failure. The WWE fanbase has proven to be loyal. There are very few booking decisions they could make that would be so catastrophic that they tanked business. Understandably, the goal should be to maximize their appeal and put those in top spots who have the most potential to do that, but even if their world title feud was Heath Slater vs Kane, they won't be in danger of self-destruction. I wish they'd realize just how much freedom their audience is willing to give them to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Didn't you say parents would call WWE if Cena lost matches? That would go against the idea the audience would let the WWE do new things. Other than that, I totally agree. It is a low risk investment to actually try to make that attempt but the WWE obviously has a cap on their creative manpower that it has to be expended on Dolph Ziggler sucking faces with Lana while Rusev fumes on crutches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I did, yeah, but what I meant was that the sky will not fall based on pushing someone new at the top. If a star doesn't click, WWE will still survive and possibly thrive, although it's obviously better for them to click than not click. They still have a pay-per-view mentality when it comes to Creative that will eventually fade away. We are seeing cracks already, but they seem to be less "Hey, look at what we have the freedom to do now!" and more "Yay, we don't have to make shows as important!" I feel like that stuff will iron itself out eventually, or at least I hope it does. Then again, they still haven't really adjusted to post-Nitro, so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I think it is largely the issue of the whole operation being in this weird limbo where it is obviously being transitioned over to Stephanie and her people from Vince but Vince still having the strongest voice over the shows. I am sure Triple H would be willing to experiment with newer ideas but like often anecdoted, Vince has made it clear that the money is made on Cena and in a larger picture, the status quo. It is like owning a sports team and wanting to rebuild but your crazy dad-the original owner-insisting on going all in with the same tired diminishing core of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sasha has been my favorite all around act in the WWE for about 8 months now. I think it's obvious HHH has a lot of confidence in the NXT women that are coming up. The segment on Raw got over really well so despite the cluttered nature of it I thought it came off pretty well. The main roster women have been given plenty of chances this year, but most of the matches that got time were mediocre matches with AJ, Paige, and NIkki, or botch fests involving Naomi. If they start giving Sasha, Becky, and Charlotte some 8-10 minute matches I think Vince will start to change his mind when the performers actually deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LariatMMBOPPO Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 When Vince went to that NXT house show, didn't it come out he loved Charlotte and Sasha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah the word was he was impressed, and ordered Charlotte be added to the Tap Out commercial right after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I know it's out of WWE's wheelhouse, but who are the best women in Japan right now, and do any of them meet WWE's standards for physical appearance? I'd ask the same question about Shimmer. Just wondering if the talent exists out there that WWE could make her a star on the same level as the men even if they did all the right things. For that matter, how are the luchadoras these days? Hikaru Shida was the supposedly the Japanese woman at the tryouts. She kinda fits the look, but I doubt that they sign her. She gave another woman a nasty concussion a couple of months ago, if the WWE see that then they'll lose interest. A lot of people say Kana, but she has more of natural look then what they go for. Kairi Hojo has been fantastic the last few months but she has more of a "girl next door" look to her. Although her vs Sasha might be the best potential babyface/heel matchup in wrestling. Mio Shirai is really charismatic and works a pretty simple style, but she retiring in the fall due to a bad neck. Yumi Ohka might be the best fit, her moveset is very WWE so she would just have to learn the "style". Her problem is that while she's attractive she doesn't really have a star quality about her. For Shimmer, they just signed Jessie McKay, who was probably the Diva looking woman that they used on a regular basis. I think Melissa would work, but if she hasn't signed by now I doubt she ever would. Athena might work if they're looking for a female Kevin Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 This thread will probably seem pretty interesting in one year from now, one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 A lot of people say Kana, but she has more of natural look then what they go for. I like Kana a lot. She does the best Crossface Chickenwing I have ever seen too. I'm not sure if she speaks English or not but I don't think WWE would give her a second thought either for the same reasons you expressed. Hopefully they get away from that mentality & just look at talent eventually though. Some of the best wrestlers of all-time, male or female, weren't the prototypical look that WWE seems to seek out today. I wish they would remember their own history sometimes. Nowadays, a guy like Dusty Rhodes might not ever get a shot. A fat dude with a lisp? Would they even put him in developmental? Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Sasha vs Charlotte on the latest NXT was fucking great. It has a really awesome finishing sequence, and including the post-match this whole thing got over the importance of a championship better than anything WWE has done in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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