Is now the perfect time for another brand split?

[Russellmania]

NXT discussion in some of the other threads has got me thinking...they have kind of a dilemma right now whether they know it or not. Eventually they are going to run out of indy darlings in the NXT pipeline and as much as HHH wants NXT to be a sustainable touring brand I just don't think it's feasible when all the best talent will leave NXT within a year. I just don't see how they can have their cake and eat it too w/r/t NXT. If it's meant to be developmental then they should really keep the focus on that.

 

With that said, I do see value in HHH's vision of a separate touring brand feels distinct from the main product as we know it today. They are at a point where they have stockpiled a pretty huge roster and have a ton of TV time to fill but many wrestlers are underused (or poorly used) and TV often feels rushed and sloppy. At this point RAW is really the only show that matters so Smackdown simply exists as a sort of vestigial offshoot of RAW that they're obligated to continue supporting but doesn't have enough of a following to actually bother making it meaningful.

 

So my argument is that now would be the perfect time to do a brand split. Keep RAW around as the "main" brand and let Vince continue to run it with Kevin Dunn and do his thing there. Give HHH the "Smackdown" show and brand and let him run it completely autonomously without Kevin Dunn. Steph can go with HHH if she wants or she can be the liaison between both bands or whatever. As for the brand names, they don't even have to be Smackdown and RAW, hell you could give the 2nd brand a new name and try to really sell the illusion that it's a separate company. I know a lot of people hated the brand split, but I think if they learned from the mistakes of the last brand split this could work out really well for them.

 

The biggest benefit IMO is that it would give them a chance to cater to a wider audience and allow them to use all their talent more appropriately. It would also hopefully resolve one of WWE's biggest problems which is how stale and homogenous the whole TV product looks right now. A 2nd brand that has the freedom to completely reevaluate its TV production style would really be exciting, and seems like something people are clamoring for (see the Beast in the East special for example).

 

to clarify, my thinking is that the 2nd brand would be the touring brand and NXT would go back to focusing purely on developmental.

 

What do people think of the idea? If you think it has value then what are some things you'd like them to do with it? what are some pitfalls you'd want them to avoid?

[Slasher]

I know that they have so many hours a week they do with programming but they could just leave Raw and Smackdown alone and instead, turn the NXT and Main Event slots into a new brand. 1 hour each=2 hours a week dedicated to the new brand plus the network specials serving as their pay per view type shows. Obviously Vince is going to want his top stars on the staple show anyways so it could be the new brand is a mixture of the more advanced NXT guys with the lesser featured main roster guys. So you can have an interesting variety of talents including guys like El Torito or Fandango or whoever mixing it up. You could even throw in Jericho as a guest star who shows up to wrestle the top stars of this brand in one off matches or even you can bring in Luke Harper for short programs when the main shows want to focus on Bray Wyatt. Things like that.

[Russellmania]

lol I guess not

[jcmmnx]

I think the brand split really helped guys like Cena, Bryan, and Punk get over when they weren't going to get featured time on Raw. I'd like for Smackdown to be the place where NXT talents debuted so you could get the main roster audience more familiar with them before moving over to Raw. Some acts like Cass and Enzo wouldn't need it, but most would. You could have guys like Owens and Cesaro headline the second brand, and also make stops in NXT when needed.

[Parties]

Wait, "a lot of people hated the brand split"? It was a great help to their business, they just ended up booking it so badly that after a while it meant nothing. But in hindsight the first 5 years or so feel like a real asset, both creatively and for business. Even the drafts, ludicrously one-sided as they were, offered a lot to freshen up the cards.

 

What you're proposing is great, albeit not at all realistic to Vince and Dunn's approach. Moreover I'm not sure HHH and Steph would settle for SD, or want a situation that feels like such a clearly divided in-house competition. It's what the internet wants to see based on the rumored in-fighting between the two factions, but it's not the impression they want to give publicly.

 

More likely a brand split return would just mean that you'd have a bit more meaning behind certain midcard feuds, a better range of talent of TV, less stale/repetitive/hotshot booking, all of which would do wonders for them right now. That and about 3 to 5 extra world title runs in Orton's career.

[Coffey]

It would only work if they went all the way with it. I remember when there were Smackdown PPVs and RAW PPVs so the "draft" when it happened was actually entertaining. Like it was a genuine mark-out moment when Cena came to RAW for me.

 

I kind of liked that.

 

But when we just started having champions on both shows & B-PPVs featuring people from both shows & there being too many belts...it was just too much.

 

Problem is, WWE gets way too scared way too quickly. One week of bad ratings and we'd have McMahons/Cena/Taker/etc. showing up to "help the numbers" or whatever. Which would defeat the purpose.

[Migs]

Wouldn't a brand split where the 2nd brand had a top, but clearly inferior title (like the NXT belt) solve one of the more absurd aspects of the original split?

[fakeplastictrees]

I think now is a good time. WWE can REALLY benefit from two different directors, two different booking teams, etc. The brand split brought us a lot of good stuff that damn sure wouldn't have happened with the top heavy roster of the early 2000's. Remember WWE in that time looked like this:

 

Hogan

Nash

Hall

Austin

HHH

Cena

Orton

Batista

Flair

Booker T

Steiner

Goldberg

Undertaker

Kane

Big Show

Angle

Benoit

Jericho

The Rock

 

etc.

 

It was fucking stacked. There are guys who are doing absolutely jack shit who could make WWE a little money (or lord forbid actually get over and make WWE tons of money) if they were allowed time to run rampart on Smackdown. Also all the people complaining about The Divas 'not getting enough time' (granted that has silenced a bit since the 'revolution' ) I am sure will be appeased if The Divas title was brand specific. The same with the tag team titles (as it was in 2002- but this time with better teams). The IC and the US champion could function much like the WWE/World champion did back during the original brand split and the main champion can pop between brands while maintaining a Brock Lesnar type of aura by not being at EVERY SHOW.

 

It should definitely happen.

[S.L.L.]

Wait, "a lot of people hated the brand split"?

 

Of course they did, just like they hated John Cena getting pushed as company ace. Looking at the real problems of why the company was broken makes certain corners of wrestling fandom uncomfortable, so the brand split became an easy scapegoat. That things have gotten vastly worse since the split ended, and that, in retrospect, the split was an unambiguous good (and seemed like an unambiguous good to me at the time) is besides the point.

[goc]

I loved the brand split. I was a big Smackdown fan for most of that time. Well until that god awful Kane/Edge feud with Paul Bearer that pretty much turned me off Smackdown forever.

 

I think that feud is what actually what killed the brand split (not really but it fucking suuuuucked)

[Parties]

 

Wait, "a lot of people hated the brand split"?

 

Of course they did, just like they hated John Cena getting pushed as company ace. Looking at the real problems of why the company was broken makes certain corners of wrestling fandom uncomfortable, so the brand split became an easy scapegoat. That things have gotten vastly worse since the split ended, and that, in retrospect, the split was an unambiguous good (and seemed like an unambiguous good to me at the time) is besides the point.

 

 

OK, but why was it a scapegoat? Like, what was the IWC talking point that was being used back then that made people think unification would solve problems? I guess I can picture folks thinking that the SD/ECW guys were getting hosed on PPV time, but my memory of it is that even back then most people recognized that it was a net positive to get Vince's eyes off SD and keep like, Mysterio as far from HHH as possible.

[Grimmas]

 

 

Wait, "a lot of people hated the brand split"?

 

Of course they did, just like they hated John Cena getting pushed as company ace. Looking at the real problems of why the company was broken makes certain corners of wrestling fandom uncomfortable, so the brand split became an easy scapegoat. That things have gotten vastly worse since the split ended, and that, in retrospect, the split was an unambiguous good (and seemed like an unambiguous good to me at the time) is besides the point.

 

 

OK, but why was it a scapegoat? Like, what was the IWC talking point that was being used back then that made people think unification would solve problems? I guess I can picture folks thinking that the SD/ECW guys were getting hosed on PPV time, but my memory of it is that even back then most people recognized that it was a net positive to get Vince's eyes off SD and keep like, Mysterio as far from HHH as possible.

 

The problem was two belts that were treated equally (or they pretended at times). Once you have that and it is clear it is all one company then you have issues.

 

The main issue from that is if everybody is a champion or the ace, then nobody is.

[Coffey]

Also if the top dog with the top prize is on one show, the second show looks inferior by comparison from the jump.

 

WWE could just make Smackdown important again & that could help things, honestly. Right now, it's less important than even WCW Thunder ever was.

 

Actually, that's sort of where we're at. Nitro was 3-hours and Thunder was 2-hours but didn't matter. Right now, RAW is 3-hours and Smackdown is 2-hours but doesn't matter.

 

A brand split wouldn't help if no one still cared about Smackdown, ya know? WWE gotta make it important so people care what happens on it. Seeing as they can't even seemingly do that on RAW most weeks, seems like an uphill struggle.

[The Chief]

People want a separate touring brand with a different roster, their own championships, a completely different look, a distinct identity with their own Network specials, etc.

 

Don't we kind of have that now?

[Russellmania]

People want a separate touring brand with a different roster, their own championships, a completely different look, a distinct identity with their own Network specials, etc.

 

Don't we kind of have that now?

My whole argument was that while NXT sort of offers that now it's not really sustainable if they keep losing their top wrestlers to the main roster. My whole post proposes that they'd be better off with two separate "main roster" brands and then let NXT focus on being developmental.

[Loss]

The only problem with the brand split (aside from the ridiculous term "brand extension") was that they didn't keep each group separate enough most of the time. By the end of 2011, we were getting forgettable champ vs champ matches between Punk and Bryan on Raw when ideally, a champ vs champ match should be a Wrestlemania main event.

[S.L.L.]

 

 

Wait, "a lot of people hated the brand split"?

 

Of course they did, just like they hated John Cena getting pushed as company ace. Looking at the real problems of why the company was broken makes certain corners of wrestling fandom uncomfortable, so the brand split became an easy scapegoat. That things have gotten vastly worse since the split ended, and that, in retrospect, the split was an unambiguous good (and seemed like an unambiguous good to me at the time) is besides the point.

 

 

OK, but why was it a scapegoat? Like, what was the IWC talking point that was being used back then that made people think unification would solve problems? I guess I can picture folks thinking that the SD/ECW guys were getting hosed on PPV time, but my memory of it is that even back then most people recognized that it was a net positive to get Vince's eyes off SD and keep like, Mysterio as far from HHH as possible.

 

You're giving the general public of the internet way more credit than they deserve. Wish I could find the arguments I had on DVDVR at the time, but the substance of the argument against the brand split - and I swear to God I'm not making this up - was that the brand split was artificial, and didn't represent any kind of real division of power in WWE. Their primary complaint was that it was obviously fake.

 

I'm gonna say that again for people who are new to the party...they didn't like the brand split because it was something artificial, not real, and obviously fake.

 

In professional wrestling.

 

I swear to God that this argument was commonplace, and, in some corners, conventional wisdom.

 

OK, but why was it a scapegoat?

 

Because we're not talking about rational people. We're talking about people who need scapegoats to justify why a wrestling promotion sucks because looking at the real reasons is too scary for them. Those kind of people will say anything.

[goc]

The brand split started to die once they started running joint PPVs. I don't blame WWE for trying to boost their PPV numbers by doing that but it did take a lot of steam out of the brand split itself. It was officially dead the moment they started advertising Raw as a "Super show" with talent from Smackdown on it as well. Before that it was pretty awesome. Raw & Smackdown were different products with different emphasis and it was good.

[Bierschwale]

The dawn of the brand split allowing Triple H to just dominate RAW is probably the best single reason why anyone would hate the split in and of itself. And there were some pretty barren PPVs, of course.

 

Two two-hour shows both on USA with genuinely distinct looks (and as much done as possible to keep SD from being a second-class show since it wouldn't be live)? I like it.

 

I never liked the drafts, though, not because they were too fake but because they were just really awkward. People suddenly having brand pride and all. Plus the non-televised draft shenanigans like the Triple H for Booker/Dudleys trade were annoying.

[goc]

The dawn of the brand split allowing Triple H to just dominate RAW is probably the best single reason why anyone would hate the split in and of itself. And there were some pretty barren PPVs, of course.

 

Two two-hour shows both on USA with genuinely distinct looks (and as much done as possible to keep SD from being a second-class show since it wouldn't be live)? I like it.

 

I never liked the drafts, though, not because they were too fake but because they were just really awkward. People suddenly having brand pride and all. Plus the non-televised draft shenanigans like the Triple H for Booker/Dudleys trade were annoying.

Honestly, I felt like a lot of the complaints about the brand split were because people were mad that Raw stunk most of the time but were too busy complaining about "SD is taped, it doesn't matter" to watch the other show. As if not clicking on spoilers is the most difficult thing in the world.

 

Like I couldn't imagine only watching Raw and not SD during the vast majority of the brand split era but there were plenty of people who were watching only Raw because "but it's the A show!"

[Bierschwale]

Yeah, I was far more invested in SD as a young smark. Even if it was taped, it was still the one actually on network TV, so the "B show" stuff was obviously dumb. Of course, it never had SHAWN. Gotta have Shawn!

[Jimmy Redman]

Oh man, in brand split days I was #1 on Team Smackdown. I loved that show. Raw has always been hit/miss/indifferent, but in that period from around late 2007to early 2010 SD was considconsistently good mostweeks, always had the best TV matches, it was my favourite show. I went through stages of grief every year when all my favourite guys were drafted to Raw to die in Rae midcard hell.

[Loss]

The HHH story if I remember it right was that he protested being drafted to Smackdown, so they moved him back after the show was over to accommodate him. But he was "punished" (as much as HHH was ever "punished") by being booked to put over Shelton Benjamin the next week.

[Laz]

I only stopped watching SmackDown after it moved to Friday night. That coincides with my being 19 and having a social life, meaning "fuck seeing Mr. Kennedy have a snoozefest with Batista, I feel like getting laid." I still hold Vengeance '03 in ridiculously high regard.

[goc]

I don't think I ever watched Smackdown as it was airing. The DVR is made for wrestling especially WWE and it's endless recaps.