Fixing the Diva's Division

[Strummer]

Jericho on his show said what a lot here have been saying. The WWE divas can't keep up with the NXT girls and the matches are suffering as a result (he actually compared this to him, Eddy, Benoit and Malenko in WCW where the other guys couldn't hang with them in the ring). But he thinks the biggest problem was them introducing them all at once because it makes it a wash and no one can stand out character wise

[Coffey]

I find it humorous that Jericho is putting himself in the same category as Guerrero & Benoit.

[Slasher]

It fits if you imagine him as the Charlotte in that group-blonde and athletic.

[jushin muta liger]

I mean, he doesn't have wrong point there historically cause Benoit, Malenko and Eddie debuted in WCW at the same time in 95 and were basically the New Japan Juniors crew who worked their own style of matches which dates back to 93 when they started working each other. Jericho worked with Benoit in 95 so he kinda got lumped in with those guys by the time he debuted in WCW in 96.

 

This makes me wanna go back and look how those guys were booked cause WCW brought them in as their base for the new cruiseweight division and see if Eddie and Dean got lost in the booking like the NXT women cause I know Benoit got pushed to being a horseman very quickly.

[El-P]

Dean was pushed right away in the cruiserweight division. Benoit was pushed almost right away too with the new Horsemen. With Eddie it took a bit more time I believe (although he was US champ as early as 96), likewise Jericho. But yeah, there's really nothing wrong about Jericho putting himself in that group. If one doesn't belong in term of worker, it would be Malenko actually (well, and Saturn, since he was the fourth one alongside Eddie, Dean and Benoit).

[donsem43]

Paige needs new friends, Devil Masami and the JBA wouldn't have put up with the crap B.A.D. were pulling.

 

Hell if they're signing joshi talent, get Police and put him with a heel Paige, that would be fantastic.

 

In all honesty, I want to see Sasha and Paige go 15 mins on a PPV. I really think those two could pull off something special.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Dean was pushed right away in the cruiserweight division. Benoit was pushed almost right away too with the new Horsemen. With Eddie it took a bit more time I believe (although he was US champ as early as 96), likewise Jericho. But yeah, there's really nothing wrong about Jericho putting himself in that group. If one doesn't belong in term of worker, it would be Malenko actually (well, and Saturn, since he was the fourth one alongside Eddie, Dean and Benoit).

They were also all friends who thought of themselves as a unit.

[Zenjo]

Blue Pants is Leva Bates who is decent enough as a comedy worker.

FYP

[jushin muta liger]

 

Dean was pushed right away in the cruiserweight division. Benoit was pushed almost right away too with the new Horsemen. With Eddie it took a bit more time I believe (although he was US champ as early as 96), likewise Jericho. But yeah, there's really nothing wrong about Jericho putting himself in that group. If one doesn't belong in term of worker, it would be Malenko actually (well, and Saturn, since he was the fourth one alongside Eddie, Dean and Benoit).

They were also all friends who thought of themselves as a unit.

But they were booked constantly in WCW against each other when they started.

[SomethingSavage]

The divas division suffers from the same issues as the mid-card. There aren't any characters to truly care about. There's no connection between the protagonists and the crowd, and therefore it's harder for the antagonists to really get heat. They're presented like a bunch of catty, bitchy "divas" on a consistent basis, and that's about it. In that aspect, they're all (at least a little) somewhat unlikable.

 

At the end of the day, when they're portrayed like that, then fans are more inclined to pop & cheer when they break into a genuine "cat fight' scene - like Lana and Summer Rae at SummerSlam - versus an actual grappling contest or some shit.

 

If they'd streamline things, give attention to detail, and put some effort into promoting each character with individual qualities, motivations, and stories - then yeah. It could take off. As it stands? All they've really done is infuse the division with new faces & warm bodies, given it a bunch of lip service, and (credit to them) given them more time for longer matches.

 

But the idea that longer matches are going to turn the whole thing around seems weird to me. They're not bringing anything new to the table. It's not at all like the cruiserweight division in terms of being groundbreaking in its time. Not at all. It's the same spots and style we're used to seeing. It's just being allowed more time on a more regular basis now. That's simply not enough.

 

The reason Sasha in NXT worked is because she was a compelling character. The reason the payoff for Bayley worked is because it played into her connection to the audience. There was an investment there. The audience was engaged. There was a reason to care.

Does anyone really care that Nikki is about to set some record? I think they COULD be. But it just hasn't been presented in a manner to make anyone care. It's not like she's built a story or a statement on it being anything of importance to her. And, even if she did, they've done so very little with her - again, from a character standpoint - that there's little sense of investment into her anyway. NOBODY cares what matters to the character if the character isn't meant to matter to the audience in the first place.

 

They can trot them out there for lengthier matches, more near-falls, "better" matches, etc. all week every week. I don't see that being enough to make a dent in the big scheme of things. Because that was never really the root of the issue.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority in thinking along those lines, but that's my thoughts on the matter anyhow.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

 

Dean was pushed right away in the cruiserweight division. Benoit was pushed almost right away too with the new Horsemen. With Eddie it took a bit more time I believe (although he was US champ as early as 96), likewise Jericho. But yeah, there's really nothing wrong about Jericho putting himself in that group. If one doesn't belong in term of worker, it would be Malenko actually (well, and Saturn, since he was the fourth one alongside Eddie, Dean and Benoit).

They were also all friends who thought of themselves as a unit.

But they were booked constantly in WCW against each other when they started.

I'm talking about in real life.

[donsem43]

If they want to actually make this work, they need to more segments like the ones on the last Smackdown. Somehow, Nikki and Charlotte had an effective promo that actually made you want to see them face off. Somehow, they've got Sasha and Paige on the verge of a blood feud after their match turned into a nasty little brawl the lead to a GAEA style pull apart. Hopefully after tomorrow night they'll have focused on two single's feuds that will finally start moving this forward.

[hammerva]

So Nikki vs Charlotte is actually happening tonight which makes you think she is losing the title about 20 minutes before the end of the countdown. Or even worse the match is done near the countdown, Nikki stalls the entire match to break the record and then loses the belt about 30 seconds later. Which would set up Nikki vs Charlotte at Night of Champions so that Nikki wins the belt back again.

 

So many horrible possibilities with this match tonight

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

Are you saying they'd have Nikki fail at beating AJ's reign which they obviously want to do by this point and then give her another reign starting at NoC so she can try again? Totally understand lacking faith in the WWE women's product but that'd be a bit much even for them.

 

I think it could very conceivably start to pick up a bit now, I expect Nikki to win tonight and gloat and become over-confident so she gets her arse kicked at NoC

[Slasher]

It won't happen but if they really wanted to get the Revolution off on a better note they could just let Nikki keep the Divas belt and one of the new girls brings back the WWE Womens title and talks about how that belt properly represents the revolution, not the butterfly belt.

[Russellmania]

So Nikki vs Charlotte is actually happening tonight which makes you think she is losing the title about 20 minutes before the end of the countdown. Or even worse the match is done near the countdown, Nikki stalls the entire match to break the record and then loses the belt about 30 seconds later. Which would set up Nikki vs Charlotte at Night of Champions so that Nikki wins the belt back again.

 

So many horrible possibilities with this match tonight

that would actually be awesome and would be the best bit of storytelling they've done with women's wrestling since the Trish/Mickie feud.

 

Like that would seriously be a brilliant move and I hope they do it but it's so good that I know they won't.

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

It won't happen but if they really wanted to get the Revolution off on a better note they could just let Nikki keep the Divas belt and one of the new girls brings back the WWE Womens title and talks about how that belt properly represents the revolution, not the butterfly belt.

That's my dream too that Charlotte throws the belt in a exploding trash can, but yeah, wanting them to get rid of the divas name (heck, it's a brand now) is about as unlikely as anything, even though it would have such an effect and feel so appropriate with what they're attempting to put across.

Ah well, I guess the best hope is that they change male wrestlers from being 'superstars' and start calling them 'bastards'. With a faux-reality show called Complete Bastards. That way everybody has a negative character trait assigned to them by default. Managers become 'sleazebags', announcers are 'shit-chatters' etc.

[Russellmania]

Are you saying they'd have Nikki fail at beating AJ's reign which they obviously want to do by this point and then give her another reign starting at NoC so she can try again? Totally understand lacking faith in the WWE women's product but that'd be a bit much even for them.

 

I think it could very conceivably start to pick up a bit now, I expect Nikki to win tonight and gloat and become over-confident so she gets her arse kicked at NoC

he's saying she'd keep the title long enough to beat the record, but lose it just minutes later. Then she could win it back at NoC and be a total heel about how she broke the record and is still champ when everyone watched Charlotte beat her on RAW.

 

I think it would be a really clever move. I'm actually not clamoring for Nikki to lose the title just because i think there's a lot of untapped potential there as a heel. If they actually booked her better they could get people really dying for her to lose the title and I think this move would be a step in that direction.

 

I also think Charlotte is the totally wrong choice as a babyface to be the one to beat her. Charlotte is a natural heel and is not even the best woman on her team (let alone compared to Sasha). IMO Charlotte should be like the Jericho to Nikki's HHH. Tease Charlotte taking the title from her permanently, but don't really run with it. Just use her to build up heat for the eventual real challenger to take it from her (IMO it should be Becky who is the best babyface on the main roster).

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

 

Are you saying they'd have Nikki fail at beating AJ's reign which they obviously want to do by this point and then give her another reign starting at NoC so she can try again? Totally understand lacking faith in the WWE women's product but that'd be a bit much even for them.

 

I think it could very conceivably start to pick up a bit now, I expect Nikki to win tonight and gloat and become over-confident so she gets her arse kicked at NoC

he's saying she'd keep the title long enough to beat the record, but lose it just minutes later. Then she could win it back at NoC and be a total heel about how she broke the record and is still champ when everyone watched Charlotte beat her on RAW.

 

I think it would be a really clever move. I'm actually not clamoring for Nikki to lose the title just because i think there's a lot of untapped potential there as a heel. If they actually booked her better they could get people really dying for her to lose the title and I think this move would be a step in that direction.

 

I also think Charlotte is the totally wrong choice as a babyface to be the one to beat her. Charlotte is a natural heel and is not even the best woman on her team (let alone compared to Sasha). IMO Charlotte should be like the Jericho to Nikki's HHH. Tease Charlotte taking the title from her permanently, but don't really run with it. Just use her to build up heat for the eventual real challenger to take it from her (IMO it should be Becky who is the best babyface on the main roster).

 

I agree that attempting to generate more heat for Nikki would be a good idea in theory, I just have my doubts she'd live up to it. Sure the Bellas are kinda naturally dislikeable, but it's tough to put my finger on why I don't think they're actually particularly worthy heels. Perhaps it's that they don't WANT to be booed? I can see that very easily, they'd much rather be loved for what they do it seems at times. I see a lot more potential in Alicia Fox in that regard than Nikki or Brie. I will accept it's unlikely the Bellas will fade into irrelevancy though, nor am I necessarily saying they should be, so it's not a bad idea.

 

I disagree that Charlotte isn't the best contender of the faces though. No one at PCB is a particularly good promo and that might have held back this 'revolution' more than most aspects, but Becky is still in a really awkward stage and though I'm a fan, I wouldn't have bought her out of developmental yet. Paige has fought Nikki 60 billion times and her hype is pretty much dry, not to mention her consistently dreadful promos and seemingly declining ring-work (my granddad could throw himself off a ring apron with more purpose than Paige, and he's just had three of his toes amputated). Charlotte is definitely the one, Becky may be the slightly better worker but this just makes 1000x more business sense.

 

I also think with the whole three-team mess, we need to be moving on to the next chapter soon enough and that should involve Sasha as the primary heel. Team BAD was a pure mistake, not having Sasha on her own first of all, but especially introducing them on the same night when they're a third-wheel team and would continue to be for weeks. So the sooner focus starts to shift towards Sasha the better for me, so I would book a pretty simple Charlotte victory at NoC. Either that or some kind of screw then a rematch, but yeah Charlotte should definitely be the next champion.

[Parties]

All of these trick scenarios that people online have been laying out all week are too complicated and unsatisfying to actually be good. Most of them feel predicated on the notion that this feud/movement has already been botched, so that what it needs now are a bunch of Russo swerves to reset the table and keep the crowd on their toes.

 

The simplest option here seems the most likely: Charlotte has Nikki beat, but Paige interferes and costs her the match, thereby breaking up PCB and granting Nikki the record reign. Nikki gets mondo heel heat. Paige, who's better as a heel than a face, likewise gets heat and can become a lone wolf. A terrible babyface faction that never should have been put together is broken up. And you then have room to book Night of Champions in a variety of different ways.

 

As for Charlotte being the wrong choice (and she is), all of this is made worse by the senseless pace of the booking. A match that shouldn't happen until Mania (her revenge) is likely to air for free on TV and "B" PPVs about 3-5 times in the next two months.

[Coffey]

I feel like the worst possible scenario tonight is any result that involves Charlotte walking out with the belt.

[Ready_Willing_Gable]

An aside about Charlotte, bit (well, very) disappointed at how little they've made of the genetically superior thing. Her being Flair's daughter should be a cozy background thing and having a genetically superior body should be her main shtick, but it's the opposite, not so surprisingly I guess, but it hardly helps net fans get on her side when nepotism is at the back of folk's minds. She can still work babyface as the genetically superior one, snapping the skinny girls like twigs, battling similar-ish body types like Tamina (again, totally un-utilized that she's bigger than the norm), Nia Jax maybe in future. Feel like fans would/could go crazy for her if she was booked to be more brutish and to the point. It shouldn't even clash with the Raw style cos she works shorter matches that way

[Russellmania]

 

 

Are you saying they'd have Nikki fail at beating AJ's reign which they obviously want to do by this point and then give her another reign starting at NoC so she can try again? Totally understand lacking faith in the WWE women's product but that'd be a bit much even for them.

 

I think it could very conceivably start to pick up a bit now, I expect Nikki to win tonight and gloat and become over-confident so she gets her arse kicked at NoC

he's saying she'd keep the title long enough to beat the record, but lose it just minutes later. Then she could win it back at NoC and be a total heel about how she broke the record and is still champ when everyone watched Charlotte beat her on RAW.

 

I think it would be a really clever move. I'm actually not clamoring for Nikki to lose the title just because i think there's a lot of untapped potential there as a heel. If they actually booked her better they could get people really dying for her to lose the title and I think this move would be a step in that direction.

 

I also think Charlotte is the totally wrong choice as a babyface to be the one to beat her. Charlotte is a natural heel and is not even the best woman on her team (let alone compared to Sasha). IMO Charlotte should be like the Jericho to Nikki's HHH. Tease Charlotte taking the title from her permanently, but don't really run with it. Just use her to build up heat for the eventual real challenger to take it from her (IMO it should be Becky who is the best babyface on the main roster).

 

I agree that attempting to generate more heat for Nikki would be a good idea in theory, I just have my doubts she'd live up to it. Sure the Bellas are kinda naturally dislikeable, but it's tough to put my finger on why I don't think they're actually particularly worthy heels. Perhaps it's that they don't WANT to be booed? I can see that very easily, they'd much rather be loved for what they do it seems at times. I see a lot more potential in Alicia Fox in that regard than Nikki or Brie. I will accept it's unlikely the Bellas will fade into irrelevancy though, nor am I necessarily saying they should be, so it's not a bad idea.

 

I disagree that Charlotte isn't the best contender of the faces though. No one at PCB is a particularly good promo and that might have held back this 'revolution' more than most aspects, but Becky is still in a really awkward stage and though I'm a fan, I wouldn't have bought her out of developmental yet. Paige has fought Nikki 60 billion times and her hype is pretty much dry, not to mention her consistently dreadful promos and seemingly declining ring-work (my granddad could throw himself off a ring apron with more purpose than Paige, and he's just had three of his toes amputated). Charlotte is definitely the one, Becky may be the slightly better worker but this just makes 1000x more business sense.

 

I also think with the whole three-team mess, we need to be moving on to the next chapter soon enough and that should involve Sasha as the primary heel. Team BAD was a pure mistake, not having Sasha on her own first of all, but especially introducing them on the same night when they're a third-wheel team and would continue to be for weeks. So the sooner focus starts to shift towards Sasha the better for me, so I would book a pretty simple Charlotte victory at NoC. Either that or some kind of screw then a rematch, but yeah Charlotte should definitely be the next champion.

 

see, I would have Paige turn heel and screw Charlotte out of the title at NoC out of jealousy and let those 2 work a program for a couple months while Becky chases the title. Once Becky becomes champ you have Sasha come in as the top heel challenger and her and Becky can start the real revolution. Then you have 2 solid programs and buy a couple of them some time.

 

one of the great lost arts of wrestling in the last 10 years is that they do a bad job of giving potential title challengers good reasons not to challenge for the title. Charlotte and Paige both belong in the title picture but giving them their own really personal feud is a smart way to keep them out of the title picture for a while while still making them seem important.

[Russellmania]

as an aside, I'd write "team BAD" off of TV for a while. Have Sasha be positioned as the clear leader and have her bring the other two down to NXT with her to try and resolve her "unfinished business" with Bayley. Then have her come back up and go after the title once you have a babyface champ (again i strongly prefer Becky for this spot. Easily the most sympathetic one of the whole bunch).

[Slasher]

What is wrong with Charlotte winning the belt only for Sasha to take it off her in a short order? You can write months of Charlotte chasing her true destiny as champion, similar to Reigns and the world title.