Jingus Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have a stack of Weekly Pro Wrestling mags from 2009. There was a regular two page column about the US wrestling scene in 1996, Wait, what? That's kinda weird. Their only regular foreign coverage is a twenty-years-ago nostalgia column? Huh. Wonder what the thought process is about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Bringing up anecdotal evidence of ECW's popularity seems absurd when the objective metric of TV penetration is right there. Even at its total nadir of popularity, WCW was still doing around double the viewers ECW ever did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have a stack of Weekly Pro Wrestling mags from 2009. There was a regular two page column about the US wrestling scene in 1996, Wait, what? That's kinda weird. Their only regular foreign coverage is a twenty-years-ago nostalgia column? Huh. Wonder what the thought process is about that. Actually, I went through all of them and found that most issues had a 2-6 page colour spread covering events from RAW and Smackdown, and the PPVs instead in the weeks they occurred. The amusing thing is that it says "thanks to WWE and Mr. Vince K. McMahon." TNA gets a bit of coverage for their PPVs. Mostly copious pictures of Sting. The 1996 stuff is a one page column called "New York, New York" that covers WWE history presumably. It touched on Nitro due to the Monday Night Wars and extended through to '97 and '98 in the issues I have. I was kind of surprised when I opened up the first one and there was a picture of Sid raising the belt. Another odd pic was an odd for a shop that use a poster of Demolition Axe. There actually seemed to be an interview with Eadie in one of the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Going back to that Baba quote, it was something Hisa posted on WrestlingClassics way back. I don't have a more concrete source than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 This whole argument is insane, but I love it. Nobody in the real world cares about the Sandman or knows who he is. Only wrestling fans know who the Sandman is. Roberts is a part of pop culture. Yeah, Jake's cancer scare made TMZ and other mainstream sites. He has a movie coming out. My boss who doesn't watch wrestling would know who Jake Roberts is. Hell, the first sports personality coming in to do his job anyone would think of when hearing "Enter Sandman" would be Mariano Rivera, not the ECW performer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I don't understand why anyone would think ECW was anything more than a pro wrestling promotion for super fans. The fucking Sandman isn't/wasn't and never will be a star. Garbage wrestler in a promotion that made it's rep among super fans via garbage wrestling. He fit perfectly. As for the song. One of Metallica's worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 This whole argument is insane, but I love it. Nobody in the real world cares about the Sandman or knows who he is. Only wrestling fans know who the Sandman is. Roberts is a part of pop culture. Yeah, Jake's cancer scare made TMZ and other mainstream sites. He has a movie coming out. My boss who doesn't watch wrestling would know who Jake Roberts is. Hell, the first sports personality coming in to do his job anyone would think of when hearing "Enter Sandman" would be Mariano Rivera, not the ECW performer! And Sandman's only other notable contribution (although only acknowledged by hardcores) is that he was the template for which Steve Austin drew inspiration for his Stone Cold gimmick. But casual fans wouldn't know that. I think the issue is that Jingus is projecting his own views onto a larger population base. Jingus is/was involved with wrestling, IIRC, so of course his people are people who would know this stuff. But that's not the norm for everywhere else. Just my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 If Atsushi Onita walked up to Randy Orton and told him, "I'm a huge fan," would Randy Orton know who he was? That is kind of what we're talking about, a star from a beloved but marginal wrestling company from halfway across the world saying hello to someone who could have very easily been a huge wrestling fan without ever encountering the other. Sandman only really means something to ECW diehards, who I can assume exist in Japan, but there is no way they are a large part of the population. If she didn't know Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin I'd get it, but Sandman is someone she very easily could have missed, unless she was actively seeking out ECW. Honestly, I watched maybe 15-20 Sandman matches, because I didn't have access to ECW TV until TNN. His entrance was great, but after you watch one or two Sandman matches, you've kind of seen them all. We aren't talking about the American version of Jushin Liger or Mitsuharu Misawa who became world renown because of their classic matches. We're talking about a guy who was only popular to a small portion of wrestling fans in his native country, because of his attitude/gimmick which very well could not translate to a foreign audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Just listening to an old show and Meltz mentioned talking to David Crockett backstage at a show once and Crockett told Dave something along the lines of "Why should we watch the WWF? We are so much better. What can we get from it?" Dave didn't say anything back but was rolling his eyes on the inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 If Atsushi Onita walked up to Randy Orton and told him, "I'm a huge fan," would Randy Orton know who he was? That is kind of what we're talking about, a star from a beloved but marginal wrestling company from halfway across the world saying hello to someone who could have very easily been a huge wrestling fan without ever encountering the other Not a good exemple though. Onita was a much bigger star in Japan than Randy Orton ever was or will ever be in the US. And FMW was not a marginal promotion by any means. When you pack 40.000 people in the Kawasaki Stadium without strong TV (or any TV at all for most of the original Onita run), you're not what I'd call marginal. Onita isn't the Sandman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Onita drawing 40,000 speaks volumes about the hardcore fan base at the time. The TV deal that FMW could have gotten in its early days wouldn't have made a lick of difference to ticket sales. In fact, Onita would have been better off appearing on the variety show circuit, which he may well have done, and probably plays a bigger part in the business than I suspect. You'd have to say there's been more eyeballs on Orton over the course of his career, but that has more to do with the WWE brand than his own drawing power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbeeach Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Almost in disbelief reading all this lol Don't believe this was actually typed. I'd be surprised if Trish Stratus or Medusa knew who the Sandman was never mind Jaguar. The bubble within the bubble of this thread, was perfect. What do you mean Aja Kong isn't familiar with Chris Chetti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 If Atsushi Onita walked up to Randy Orton and told him, "I'm a huge fan," would Randy Orton know who he was? That is kind of what we're talking about, a star from a beloved but marginal wrestling company from halfway across the world saying hello to someone who could have very easily been a huge wrestling fan without ever encountering the other Not a good exemple though. Onita was a much bigger star in Japan than Randy Orton ever was or will ever be in the US. And FMW was not a marginal promotion by any means. When you pack 40.000 people in the Kawasaki Stadium without strong TV (or any TV at all for most of the original Onita run), you're not what I'd call marginal. Onita isn't the Sandman. Onita drawing 40,000 speaks volumes about the hardcore fan base at the time. The TV deal that FMW could have gotten in its early days wouldn't have made a lick of difference to ticket sales. In fact, Onita would have been better off appearing on the variety show circuit, which he may well have done, and probably plays a bigger part in the business than I suspect. You'd have to say there's been more eyeballs on Orton over the course of his career, but that has more to do with the WWE brand than his own drawing power. You are supporting my point more than disputing it. Onita was hugely popular to Japanese fans, but why would Randy Orton be expected to know who he is? Jaguar Yokota not knowing Sandman, is the same because Sandman means something to a group of American fans, that I don't have any reason to believe would translate to Japanese fans. Onita means someting to a very large group of Japanese fans, much bigger than Sandman, but there is no reason to believe that the average American knows anything about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 When Flair had Austin on his podcast, Flair's co-host had to correct him on Austin/Hart from WrestleMania 13 not being a 60-minute match. Flair then admitted he'd never seen the match. That one kind of boggled my mind mostly because of just how iconic that match is, plus, it did happen on the biggest show of the year for the rival promotion (the one show you'd think everyone watched). It didn't totally negate any of Flair's praise for Austin and its obvious the two get along well - but it almost reminded me of if I met Robert De Niro, we had a long talk about his accomplishments and the actor's craft and his successes, we shared a lot of laughs and had a great time and became drinking buddies, and then, sometime around our 20th hangout, I told him I'd never gotten around to seeing Taxi Driver. Flair's memory is terrible, also. He couldn't remember what year he went to the WWF (both times), and he thought Austin was gone from WCW before Hogan came in, which is crazy because he was on the booking committee at the time and Austin was a pushed guy. Austin was too polite to correct him and probably didn't want to go on a rant, because he sure as shit remembers Flair being one of the bookers back then and has complained about him in the past before them became pals Flair's podcast is good for at least one glaring mis-rememberance an episode, usually several. But it's understandable given his 40+ year career, his age, and his lifestyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 Flair's podcast is good for at least one glaring mis-rememberance an episode, usually several. But it's understandable given his 40+ year career, his age, and his lifestyleHis memory's better than my mother's. And she's not only a few years younger, but didn't spend forty years getting hit in the head and drinking herself to sleep every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 I'm not someone that feels like the top stars should actually spend all their free time studying tapes or reviewing footage or anything, but I'm at least a little surprised that Flair has never actively sought out the Bret/Austin WM13 match. At the risk of sidetracking the thread a bit, I think that's what separates Austin as a host. He makes it a point and a priority to watch matches, interviews, etc. in preparation for his guests. Don't get me wrong. I like Flair's own approach. It's entirely casual and comes across as refreshing for the sake of having some variety with all these wrestling podcasts lately. But yeah. It's somewhat strange that he hasn't checked out a match as highly hyped as Bret/Austin. Makes me wonder how many Hunter and HBK matches from that Attitude Era time frame he's gone back and watched. Maybe he just bullshits his way through a lot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 Austin seems like a wrestling nerd though. If he hadn't gotten into the business, he would probably be on sites like this deconstructing matches like the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 This is funny, as I made the following joke to British indy wrestler El Ligero when he tweeted about a major UK indy show called Superclash 3 next month being cancelled: "A cursed show name if there ever was one. At least you didn't work without pay as Chavo Guerrero/Lawler claimed!" He totally didn't get what I was referring to. Meanwhile, there was a period around 2007 where he was doing Batista's ring entrance, complete with machine gun pose but entirely lacking in pyrotechnic explosions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I don't know if it's absolute ignorance or less than a handful of people in the office actually getting the reference, but I'm surprised the Five Knuckle Shuffle has made it through the entire PG era push entirely unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 I had to google that. Amazing, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Just thought I'd say that I've learned a shitload from this thread. Thanks especially to Ohtanis Jacket, good stuff mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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