The Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin Feud

[ohtani's jacket]

I got these discs a long time ago and never watched them. With the winter season coming up it seems like a good time to hole up with some Flair/Garvin.

 

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, GCW, 6/17/84

 

This was Flair challenging for the television title instead of Garvin challenging for the world title, but let's just pretend that Flair was interested in using the television title as a coaster. The important thing is that the action was good. They kept up a rapid pace through the 10 minutes starting with some decent chain wrestling, moving through some mid-range and then letting the fists fly as Flair got a taste of what to expect from "Hands of Stone" Ronnie Garvin. Nice little appetizer for what was to come. Garvin looked good here as he did in his Georgia matches w/ Jake Roberts. Not one of the all-time great Flair studio appearances, but thoroughly entertaining.

[soup23]

Excited about this. I see Garvin vs. Flair as a top 3 Flair feud of all time.

[Smack2k]

Excited about this. I see Garvin vs. Flair as a top 3 Flair feud of all time.

 

Agreed. The two of them had some REALLY good matches. Look forward to reading these.

[JerryvonKramer]

Such echoing Chad and Brian. I love love love the 12/85 studio match.

[Death From Above]

I loved the Starrcade '87 match. I wondered for years what was clipped out of it on the original home video release, turns out years later it was just like a minute of the crowd chanting "Garvin sucks" I guess because he was a babyface they just edited it out. They just really lay into each other that whole match, Garvin really had a Rocky Balboa vibe that he hits hard enough he could beat anybody on his day. I know he's viewed as a flop champion, but that match is still damn good.

[drew wardlaw]

I'm a big fan of that 6 man from November 85. Cool start to their NWA stuff.

[Johnny Sorrow]

It always annoyed the fuck out of me when people would go on about the Garvin title win "coming out of nowhere" or " rushed". The ongoing story of Garvin chasing Flair had been a storyline thread that had been going on for years. I myself wasn't aware of it until I got to see TBS, cause it was one of those things they didn't talk about on World Wide.

[ohtani's jacket]

Flair/Ole/Arn vs. Garvin/Whatley/Taylor, WCW, 11/16/85

 

Super fun six-man tag with Flair and the Andersons looking to cut the ring off and work their man over while the babyfaces keep making spirited comebacks. I love how Flair delivers a running commentary in these studio bouts telling guys how he's gonna take them to school and now they're gonna pay. The Flair fans are awesome as well ("take him to school Ric!") Some great Flair/Garvin action here even if Ronnie hadn't really gotten under his skin yet. Great energy to the bout. Really entertaining TV.

 

Flair/Garvin confrontation and challenge, WCW, 12/21/85

 

I expect so much of Flair on the mic that sometimes I get a little disappointed when his riffs fall flat, but Flair was brilliant here. Garvin was a fairly limited mic worker and the way Flair played off him was masterful. Ric's at his best when he's indignant about some perceived slight or insult. His rising indignation at Garvin's defiance was a joy to watch. Garvin was limited, but he could get his point across, and this was a great challenge.

 

Ric Flair promos, WCW, 12/21/85 and 12/28/85

 

Flair cuts a couple of promos hyping the upcoming Garvin match and talking about his sexual prowess. I liked Flair's annoyance at the insinuation he was afraid of Garvin, but this was mostly Flair getting off on being Flair. He was so high on himself in the second promo that he signed off the promo with: "Tony, you're a handsome man." I love the different ways he'd treat Schiavone depending on his mood.

 

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, WCW, 12/28/85

 

Awesome match. I love how serious Flair was after all the shit talking he'd done and the way the violence escalated to the point where they were just about fish hooking each other. Flair crying out "God damn you!" was an awesome moment. Ronnie looked like he was about to pop a blood vessel he was so fired up. Even when he was trying to put Flair in a front face lock it felt like a "shoot." That much intensity in a studio setting meant the bout could only end with a double countout or a run-in or some sort, so I didn't mind the interference, but it did keep in at the "great TV match" level rather than being anything transcendent.

 

Ronnie Garvin/Dusty Rhodes/Magnum TA promo, WCW, 12/28/85

 

The babyfaces deliver a suitably fired up group promo condemning the actions of Flair and the Andersons. Dusty threw the set about playing off a riff about there not being enough room for all six men in the studio. Fun little riff from an all-time great promo guy.

[thebrainfollower]

I both do and don't agree with you on that Johnny.

[ohtani's jacket]

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 1/11/86

Ronnie Garvin's hobbies, WCW, 1/11/86

 

Garvin mangles a series of promos. The basic gist is that he has Flair's number, the Nature Boy is afraid of him, and Garvin is after the belt and the half a million dollars that comes along with it. It's a shame that Garvin wasn't a better talker, but at least it sounds like he was ad-libbing his stuff.

 

Ric Flair/Ronnie Garvin brawl, WCW, 1/18/86

 

Flair butts his way into Garvin's interview time and cheap shots him. He throws Garvin into the ring, tosses the ref and jobber out and gives Garvin a hiding before sitting on his chest and mocking Garvin's signature pin. The Horsemen show up and it looks like they intend to send Garvin to the hospital, but Dusty and Co make the save. All hell breaks loose and Garvin knocks Flair out off camera. The segment ends with Garvin and friends cutting a defiant promo as the Horsemen carry Flair off. Later, the Horsemen are out with J.J. Dillion claiming it was a cheap shot and Garvin must have had something in his fist to knock Flair out. Tully wants Garvin & Co. to step in the ring like men and Arn considers it a personal insult since Flair is blood.

 

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 1/25/86

 

Tony calls Garvin's punch "the shot heard round the world," which is a cheeky bit of embellishment. Garvin stumbles through a decent promo about how Flair better call the IRS man and tell him next year when he files income tax he's going to be in a much lower bracket and how he better start selling his limousine and his jet plane and pawn his Rolex to pay his tax bill.

 

Ric Flair promo, WCW, 1/25/86

 

Flair cuts a promo where he shows off his ass and promises the ladies he'll start wearing jeans like Magnum TA and the Rock 'n' Roll Express so they can see why Slick Ric and Space Mountain are synonymous. He claims Garvin had something in his hand and takes us through the footage. Flair was awesome here. I guess everybody loves it when heels commentate over footage and rattle off a biased account of what happened, but Flair really was sublime here. Crockett keeps goading him about the punch and Ric says he can understand why they're trying to embarrass him because he's gotten to the point in his career where he's so great and so good that once in a while they've got to show the people that he's an average human being on his worst day. Then he switches tack and fires off a series of great lines before pinching Tony's cheek and saying "Tony Schiavone, you tell your wife I said hello brother." Even by Flair's standards that was a pretty tremendous three and half minute promo.

 

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 2/2/86

 

This wasn't as good as the studio bout from December. They only went about 15 minutes when really a main event length bout was what I wanted to see next. There really wasn't any way the action was going to be any more intense than what we'd already seen so the narrative scope needed to be wider. Instead there as an element of smoke and mirrors. Garvin had Flair pinned for a four count and then knocked him out for a seven count, but when he tried reviving Young, Flair struck with a knee from behind and him even though Garvin had a foot on the ropes. Crockett began blabbering about it and Flair screamed at him to shut up. Served its purpose in terms of making Flair look scared, and gave Garvin ammunition for future promos. but forgettable otherwise.

 

Ron Garvin promo, WCW, 2/2/86

Ron Garvin promo, WCW, 2/9/86

 

Garvin says Flair is running on empty, Garvin has his number, and he's not gonna quit. He's going to keep trying harder and 1986 is the year Flair is going down.

[Tim Cooke]

Wait until you get to the 9/87 Cage Match title switch. Hadn't seen that until this year and it is possibly a top 10 Crockett contender when the next DVDVR set is released.

[ohtani's jacket]

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. Dusty Rhodes & Ronnie Garvin, WWW, 2/22/86

 

The Risky Business Boys. The crowd is super hot for this. Shortish bout with the faces dominating on offence. Flair takes a beating in the early going. The finish sees Garvin knock Flair out again and the faces celebrate like a "kid with a new toy." Crockett is super excited the punch during the wrap-up.

 

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 2/22/86

 

Tony suggests Garvin can knock Flair out any time he likes. Garvin compares people who like Flair to people who thought Adolf Hitler and Charlie Manson were great men. That's a bit harsh. Says he's driving a truck four hours a week so that he can claim a truck driver beat Ric Flair and that the new $30,000 big gold belt is a hell of an incentive.

 

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson promo, WCW, 2/22/86

 

Arn cuts a solid promo about being the world television champ and running with Flair before Tony & David drop some footage of Garvin knocking Flair out after a 60 minute time limit draw. Flair delivers an impassioned rant about Crockett and Schiavone always looking to insult him. He tells Crockett to warn Garvin that if keeps messing around with him the same thing that happened to Dusty is going to happen to him. Tony has a smug look of satisfaction afterward.

 

And that's the end of disc one.

[Loss]

Wait until you get to the 9/87 Cage Match title switch. Hadn't seen that until this year and it is possibly a top 10 Crockett contender when the next DVDVR set is released.

 

I thought the same when I watched it about two years ago. An absolutely sublime match that is as good as just about any match I've ever seen.

[shoe]

When I did Parv's Flair podcast the cage match made my top 20 of all Flair matches. I might have had it in my top 10.

[ohtani's jacket]

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 3/1/86

 

Garvin cuts a weakish promo laying down a challenge to Arn Anderson and claiming he's become a carpenter as well as a truck driver.

 

Ronnie Garvin vs. Arn Anderson, WCW, 3/1/86

 

Solid World Television title match between Garvin and Anderson. Flair shows up after the commercial break to add some spice on commentary. Flair's ongoing battle with Crockett has been one of the highlights of the discs thus far. The match goes the distance and Flair distracts Garvin long enough for Arn to deliver a gourdbuster. Flair is a little too excited by this counting three on Garvin and getting up in Crockett's face. The replay of the gourdbuster looked like it hurt Arn more than it did Garvin.

 

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 3/8/86

 

Garvin's an electrician now.

 

Ric Flair promo, WCW, 3/8/86

 

One of those rambling promos Flair was guilty of from time to time. He salvages it though with a great line about a wrestler without a title being like a man with no country.

[thebrainfollower]

Was their Starrcade main event the last time they faced each other on TV in a singles match?

[Frankensteiner]

I guess you will need to find out for yourself, but that cage match where Garvin wins the belt is pretty bad. Completely meandering and needlessly long, the kind of match where you wish Flair and Garvin had an editor or agent trimming half the fat off. I think the match exposed that these guys were probably better off going 15-20 minutes instead of 30+.

 

Flair & Garvin were amazing going at it in the studio match, and outside of Flair's promos, that was unfortunately the high point of the feud. The cage match at Starrcade was pretty good too because they kept it under 20 minutes.

[Childs]

I guess you will need to find out for yourself, but that cage match where Garvin wins the belt is pretty bad. Completely meandering and needlessly long, the kind of match where you wish Flair and Garvin had an editor or agent trimming half the fat off. I think the match exposed that these guys were probably better off going 15-20 minutes instead of 30+.

 

Flair & Garvin were amazing going at it in the studio match, and outside of Flair's promos, that was unfortunately the high point of the feud. The cage match at Starrcade was pretty good too because they kept it under 20 minutes.

 

Well, you have other people in the thread saying the Garvin title win was one of the greatest Crockett matches of all time, so it will be interesting to see where OJ falls on that one.

[Loss]

Yeah, I thought that was a ***** match.

[BlueGuy]

Yeah, I thought that was a ***** match.

I'm with you guys who thought it was great. The Garvin title win was a 4.5 stars for me.

[JerryvonKramer]

Yeah, I thought that was a ***** match.

Same.

[Frankensteiner]

 

I guess you will need to find out for yourself, but that cage match where Garvin wins the belt is pretty bad. Completely meandering and needlessly long, the kind of match where you wish Flair and Garvin had an editor or agent trimming half the fat off. I think the match exposed that these guys were probably better off going 15-20 minutes instead of 30+.

 

Flair & Garvin were amazing going at it in the studio match, and outside of Flair's promos, that was unfortunately the high point of the feud. The cage match at Starrcade was pretty good too because they kept it under 20 minutes.

 

Well, you have other people in the thread saying the Garvin title win was one of the greatest Crockett matches of all time, so it will be interesting to see where OJ falls on that one.

 

My post was in reference to the above mentioned praise of the match. I know people here are fairly high on Flair, and I figured the match would have its fans, but the talk of this being a top 10 match was pretty stunning to me.

 

I see it up there with the Starrcade Luger match as far as overrated Flair matches go. As I recall, OJ agreed with some of the comments I made regarding that match so I'm curious what he thinks here.

[JerryvonKramer]

Different strokes I guess.

[Loss]

I don't expect OJ to love it as much as the rest of us just based on what he likes in his wrestling, but I do think he will consider it a good match. The surprising part is not that you don't think it's a classic match, but that it's "pretty bad". You don't think that's an overstatement?

[ohtani's jacket]

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 3/9/86

 

Now it's time for a handheld from the Omni in Atlanta. Pretty much what you'd expect from these two if you'd been following the TV. Flair had made every excuse under the sun for being knocked out by Garvin from a loaded fist to a cheap shot to a lucky punch. He spends the early part of the match goading Garvin into punching him. Garvin threatens to start boxing Flair and Ric starts begging off. Garvin beats Flair up until Flair does something underhanded to get back into the match. Garvin fights his way back and gets a pinfall opportunity. Flair manages to kick out and the crowd blame Tommy Young. The footage is clipped and there a lot of jump cuts, which makes it difficult to get into the flow of the bout, but it basically continues along similar lines. It's a lot slower than their studio stuff, which obviously suits Flair from a kayfabe point of view. They chase each other around the ring a lot and Garvin pulls Flair's tights down four times, which was probably three times too many. He knocks Flair out, but his leg buckles and he can't make the pin. Eventually, they get counted out and the heat just vanishes. Garvin knocks him out again and claps a three count, but the building is dead. Pretty average.