Slasher Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't actually have an issue with Backlund getting the call but it just strikes me as weird Vince cares enough about Bret's feelings considering he didn't care about him going into WM IX and at this point was obviously ready to roll with Diesel as his guy...and even though Bret was the one they put the belt back on when that failed, it was only to get it through the winter before putting it on Shawn. Just weird IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 The fact Vince doesn't generally have babyfaces drop the titles to babyfaces aside, why would Vince care what Bret thought? If his guy was Diesel, then his guy is Diesel. Why would he even worry about who Bret respected enough to drop the belt to? Why wouldn't Vince want to avoid a potential headache? Bret is still the top babyface when he's dropping the title. If Nash flops, what other options does he have? Lex was damaged goods. Bulldog, Razor and Kid aren't on that level. UT is over, but not very good in the ring. And now Vince has pissed off Bret by making him put over King Kong Bundy (just for instance, I have no idea how Bret felt about him), to start up the failed Diesel experiment. So, Bret is now pissed and wants to head down South or just sit out the contract. Or, Vince can just let Bret have his way, knowing that it's a few days and if something goes wrong, he has Bret to pick up the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't actually have an issue with Backlund getting the call but it just strikes me as weird Vince cares enough about Bret's feelings considering he didn't care about him going into WM IX and at this point was obviously ready to roll with Diesel as his guy...and even though Bret was the one they put the belt back on when that failed, it was only to get it through the winter before putting it on Shawn. Just weird IMO. The original plan was to pay off what happened at WM IX at SummerSlam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think even Vince knows Hogan was never gonna do that. Probably just something he tells people like Bret to rustle things up like he is known to do. I wouldn't even be surprised if in his mind Vince knew they would end up doing the KOTR thing with Yoko instead. If Vince really wanted Bret to take it at Summerslam, why do the Luger deal? Why not just put the belt on Bret regardless of champion? Hell he was not sure who he was gonna put the belt on at Mania X with that Rumble finish. That is sure a guy with conviction about Bret as his top guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Bret's an emotional guy and had been with Vince for nine years almost at that point. He was just about the only leftover from 1984 (Fuji was managing and Tito was on his way out, I'm drawing a blank on other wrestlers still around) and definitely bought into the "Vince is my second father" ideal. When told he was going to drop the title his first reply was "Is it because I didn't do a good enough job". So IF we assume Vince was telling Bret the truth, he had to change his mind quickly about Bret as champion. If the original plan was for Hogan to pass the torch to Bret, why wouldn't as suggested earlier, Bret just beat the guy who beat Hogan at Summerslam? Instead by the end of the night Bret (having the night of his career to that point in ring arguably) is booked with the heel commentator for the summer. And Vince replaces him with Hulk Hogan v2 in American Hero Lex Luger. I'm not saying at some point Vince didn't toy with the idea of Bret going over Hogan at Summerslam and I certainly have no trouble believing that's what he told Bret, but it was a passing fancy at best and a lie to appease Bret at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 ... now Vince has pissed off Bret by making him put over King Kong Bundy (just for instance, I have no idea how Bret felt about him) ... He speaks well enough of him in his book and there's a nice photo of him with Bret's (then) wife and kids. That's besides the point, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 When did Bret ever put over Bundy? Certainly not on TV that I recall. Looking at results through WM XI I could find one match between the two, at the Worcester Centrum with no result given. Bret worked Owen up till WM XI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 When did Bret ever put over Bundy?Never, according to Cagematch's database. All it lists are a few battle royals, and then a brief run of a half-dozen house shows during a '94 European tour which had Bret going over every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Ah. I only checked 95 on Graham's site as I assumed Bundy didn't do any jobs prior to Bret dropping the title and I knew Bret didn't work in 94 after that. Graham lists a Feb 1995 match at the Worcester Centrum. I am from that county and can ask any friends if they happened to catch that show, though my friends interest in WWF in 95 was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Why not? Who else did they really have as heels at the time? Tatanka? Jeff Jarrett? If that was directed to me, that doesn't really...address anything I asked. Huh? You asked why would Vince care who Bret wanted to drop it too. I said "why not?" and gave examples of the lack of heel depth the roster had. Hence, "why not" let Bret choose who he loses it to, there wasn't a plethora of better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Why not? Who else did they really have as heels at the time? Tatanka? Jeff Jarrett?If that was directed to me, that doesn't really...address anything I asked. Huh? You asked why would Vince care who Bret wanted to drop it too. I said "why not?" and gave examples of the lack of heel depth the roster had. Hence, "why not" let Bret choose who he loses it to, there wasn't a plethora of better options. Ok I guess so but my question was more about the Vince-Bret relationship rather than the dearth of credible heel opponents at the time but I do see what you are saying. Personally might as well just have Owen do it if there is no real intention to go with a heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Then again, if Diesel was gonna mow down a guy in 8 seconds, who cares who it was gonna be and who cares what Bret thinks about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Guys, I just pulled Bundy's name out of my ass for my hypothetical scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I just finished the book. Got the hardcover for Christmas. (The ebook price is the same or close, which is just nuts and I can't see that version selling many copies.) It's awesome. Backlund is very honest about everything, a straight-shooter, but never vindictive and always classy. One of the most enjoyable aspects of the book is finding out which wrestlers he respects (I was surprised by a few of the people he named). If he's critical of anyone, it's never in a nasty, petty way - he's always very fair and just. If you're looking for salacious dirt or bitter axe-grinding, you won't find it here. He also goes into detail about his relationship with Vince Sr. and every major match and feud he had - including his title loss and who came up with the "throw in the towel" booking. Maybe I bought too much into the straight arrow character and narrative they built for Backlund over the years, but I was genuinely shocked that he ever took a sip of beer, LOL - especially with Andre. To be fair, he is still the clean, sober, hard-working "All American Boy" we know him to be. If you're looking for a lot of detail about his '90s comeback, there isn't much (as Ricky Jackson pointed out too). Backlund doesn't even cover anything past the Diesel loss. He acts almost as if his career ended right then and there, followed by his Hall of Fame induction a few years later. As cool as the Diesel surprise switch was at the time to my kid self, I really wished, both then and now, that Backlund had gotten a longer run with the title. I would've loved more about oddities like clash of styles WM match with Razor, his disappointing WM rematch with Bret, and his bizarre feud with Man Mountain Rock (one of the rare instances of WCW using a wrestler better than the WWF did). Overall, it's a great book - marred only by some formatting issues (all of the quotes are surrounded by a grey border, but some of the quotes inexplicably begin or end outside that border) and minor inaccuracies (for example, the Backlund heel turn was incorrectly identified as happening on Raw when it actually took place on Superstars). Still, those are minor nitpicks, especially considering the length and depth of this book. I don't think there's a more detailed account anywhere of the WWWF/WWF and its players and personalities (especially Vince Sr.) in the late-'70s and early '80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yeah, even when he criticizes someone he clarifies by finding something positive to say. Like when he talks about Putski and all the things he didn't like about the guy he ends with " but he was an amazing draw." 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yeah, even when he criticizes someone he clarifies by finding something positive to say. Like when he talks about Putski and all the things he didn't like about the guy he ends with " but he was an amazing draw." Same with George Steele. (Paraphrasing) "You could only have one kind of match with him, but he was such an intelligent guy and the fans came out in droves to see him." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 So I finally started Backlund's book this week and thus far its really terrific. Very detailed and well laid out. Its also not at all choppy and a very easy read, as his co-author clearly did a great job. Big recommendation for anyone on the fence. I had a question about his move to New York. So he has a successful run in Florida for Eddie Graham and apparently does well for Muchnick in St. Louis. Why would Graham recommend him to Vince Sr. as a potential babyface champion? Wouldn't that ensure he'd almost never be able to headline with him? Seems like those interests are a bit at odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Vince Sr was a part of the NWA at that point and tight with a lot of promoters, especially Eddie Graham. Backlund worked in Florida while WWF champ on occasion, perhaps most notably against Harley Race in a couple unification matches in 1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Wouldn't it be to Graham's interest to keep Backlund a regular in Florida, or at least no more than a special attraction in NY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 There was a lot more co-operation in those days. Eddie Graham already had his #1 top guy with Dusty Rhodes, he wasn't looking to replace him. Plus, Backlund was going to make more money working for Vince Sr. which was why everyone always co-operated with WWWF because they knew guys were going to wind up going there anyway so it was better to get some Andre dates or goodwill out of giving Vince Sr. what he asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Check out MSG cards in the '70s. Florida guys are all over those cards. Mike Graham, Steve Keirn, Mr. Sato and Mr. Saito, etc. There was an extraordinary amount of talent sharing during that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 How often did Bruno or Graham make it Florida when they were champ though? Would seem at that point like its not a two way street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 But the New York guys weren't going to make more money going down to Florida, they'd have made less. Having Florida guys work some dates in MSG actually benefits both parties. It keeps the Florida guys happy because they got to go up to MSG and make a big payday and helps Vince load up his cards. The other side to it is that Florida had a heavier schedule with most of their towns being weekly so getting guys out of the territory every once in a while helped keep them fresh in Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Graham worked the Miami Superbowl of Wrestling show against Race, title vs title, in early 78. Probably worked some other dates since he was a name in the territory. Florida TV was available in the New York area as well. Most fans in Florida wouldn't have been familiar with WWF guys outside of the ones that worked there before, like Graham or Backlund, unless you followed the mags. Backlund staying Florida wouldn't have really benefitted Graham much because he wasn't going to be pushed ahead of Dusty or Jack Brisco as a top star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 So I finally started Backlund's book this week and thus far its really terrific. Very detailed and well laid out. Its also not at all choppy and a very easy read, as his co-author clearly did a great job. Big recommendation for anyone on the fence. I had a question about his move to New York. So he has a successful run in Florida for Eddie Graham and apparently does well for Muchnick in St. Louis. Why would Graham recommend him to Vince Sr. as a potential babyface champion? Wouldn't that ensure he'd almost never be able to headline with him? Seems like those interests are a bit at odds. He makes it pretty clear in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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