"Political Hit"

[sek69]

I want to pop in say that I don't think WWE is all that incompetent. I think they know exactly what they're doing most of the time. They made a lot of money in 2015. I think a lot of people don't want to believe the political hit theory because "LOL WRESTLING CONSPIRACY THEORIES" but it's more than that. I've never thought this theory was far fetched at all. Plus, one could also say the same for the incompetence stuff with "LOL DAY DONT KNOW WHAT DARE DOING. DARE INCOMPETENT." People in wrestling are smarter than we think.

 

 

Not sure why people think it has to be one extreme or another, though. Clearly they aren't completely incompetent but there's also a significant level of tone-deafness from the company in terms of thinking they know what the audience wants.

[shoe]

Gotta say Hunter's run in on Raw was more Dusty Rhodes saving Rocky King , I mean Shemus than Ric Flair and the Horsemen breaking Dusty's arm. How hard would it have been to have HHH and the whole LON to lay out Roman. Why did it need to be a one man assassination . Complete with mock super man punch and DX suck it .

[JerryvonKramer]

I want to pop in say that I don't think WWE is all that incompetent. I think they know exactly what they're doing most of the time. They made a lot of money in 2015. I think a lot of people don't want to believe the political hit theory because "LOL WRESTLING CONSPIRACY THEORIES" but it's more than that. I've never thought this theory was far fetched at all. Plus, one could also say the same for the incompetence stuff with "LOL DAY DONT KNOW WHAT DARE DOING. DARE INCOMPETENT." People in wrestling are smarter than we think.

I don't think the position I've outlined is "lol incompetence", I see Vince as the greatest promoter who ever lived by some distance.

 

I see him struggling to know what to do when faced with what appears to be a big split in his audience.

 

If there's one thing Vince has never excelled at it is subtlety so his ham-fisted attempts to move in any direction feel magnified.

 

The truth of the matter is that, rightly or wrongly, Vince's forty odd years in the business has convinced him that guys like Bryan and Styles will never be draws beyond the hardcores. The man who brought us Rock n Wrestling and who put wrestling on MTV is never going to go with the option smart fans want. Ever.

 

But those fans have become so vocal that they are wrecking his product so he's been trying to find ways to book for them as well as the kids. It hasn't worked and the Roman push is probably the worst and most botched thing in his entire career. But I think I understand what he's trying to do.

 

It's not incompetence just difficulty with changing times, I'd make the analogy to Bill Watts in 1992 or George Scott in 1989. Some of the greatest minds in the business screw up sometimes.

[JerryvonKramer]

^ And all of that is not to say that he doesn't have HHH in one ear and Kevin Dunn in the other. Maybe he does, but the cause of the issue isn't their scheming, it's Vince not quite knowing what to do.

[Lust Hogan]

Vince knows EXACTLY what to do, IMO, he's just being stubborn. I found this article on pwtorch.com that essentially summed up what I'm feeling on the issue:

 

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/02/22/tuckerfastlane/

 

Excerpt:

 

Vince McMahons wrestling organization has almost always featured one individual as the flagbearer of the company. From 1984 until 1993, that man was Hulk Hogan. Afterwards, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart took the mantle. Then, Steve Austin would follow during the Attitude Era. Today, the face of the WWE is John Cena. What do these individuals have in common? They werent the men that Vince McMahon wanted.

 

As early as 1987 there were reports that Vince McMahon was looking for a new Hulk Hogan, taking into consideration Hulks age at the time. When he could no longer be relied on, McMahon put his faith in the All-American Lex Luger in 1993, then Diesel in 1994 into 1995. Before John Cena became the face of the company, Vince had his eyes set on Brock Lesnar. Then Randy Orton. Then Batista.

 

McMahon has never been able to mold his guy from the ground up. Hes always had to settle for who the crowd wants, not who he thinks would be best. And while in the past he has relented by giving Bret Hart the mantle over Lex Luger, ending Diesels title reign two years early and making his fourth-best pick John Cena the face of his company, his attempt to make Roman Reigns is different.

This time may be his last shot to get his guy.

 

Thats why McMahon will not relent anymore. This is his final opportunity to make his man the way he sees fit, come hell or high water. Fastlane was the latest example of a 70-year-old man trying to come to terms with his own mortality as he rejected the crowds support for Dean Ambrose and Brock Lesnar to push Roman Reigns as WWEs future. Tonight was Vince McMahon putting his foot down; Roman Reigns will lead WWE into the next decade, whether you like it or not.

[Tim Cooke]

I want to pop in say that I don't think WWE is all that incompetent. I think they know exactly what they're doing most of the time. They made a lot of money in 2015. I think a lot of people don't want to believe the political hit theory because "LOL WRESTLING CONSPIRACY THEORIES" but it's more than that. I've never thought this theory was far fetched at all. Plus, one could also say the same for the incompetence stuff with "LOL DAY DONT KNOW WHAT DARE DOING. DARE INCOMPETENT." People in wrestling are smarter than we think.

 

No they aren't dumb, you can't be completely stupid and last this long and make good money. Yet, every company in the world is vulnerable to their own of operations. The WWE has had a long track record on not booking people correctly that it shouldn't be shocking or a conspiracy that "so and so is being held down by a vast conspiracy." Tomk walked through this in pretty detailed form in 2002, 2007 at the old DVDVR boards (2002 being HHH just keeping everyone down and 2008 being main event babyface Cena having to carry Great Khali in regular matches while HHH was using blood, weapons, etc. in his matches). I guess I'm in the camp of thinking that this isn't out of the norm. Much more of a conspiracy as to why Kevin Gausman was shuttled between AAA and the big leagues last year and even there, that conspiracy holds up about as well as 9-11 Truthers.

[JerryvonKramer]

Vince knows EXACTLY what to do, IMO, he's just being stubborn. I found this article on pwtorch.com that essentially summed up what I'm feeling on the issue:

 

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/02/22/tuckerfastlane/

 

Excerpt:

 

Vince McMahons wrestling organization has almost always featured one individual as the flagbearer of the company. From 1984 until 1993, that man was Hulk Hogan. Afterwards, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart took the mantle. Then, Steve Austin would follow during the Attitude Era. Today, the face of the WWE is John Cena. What do these individuals have in common? They werent the men that Vince McMahon wanted.

 

As early as 1987 there were reports that Vince McMahon was looking for a new Hulk Hogan, taking into consideration Hulks age at the time. When he could no longer be relied on, McMahon put his faith in the All-American Lex Luger in 1993, then Diesel in 1994 into 1995. Before John Cena became the face of the company, Vince had his eyes set on Brock Lesnar. Then Randy Orton. Then Batista.

 

McMahon has never been able to mold his guy from the ground up. Hes always had to settle for who the crowd wants, not who he thinks would be best. And while in the past he has relented by giving Bret Hart the mantle over Lex Luger, ending Diesels title reign two years early and making his fourth-best pick John Cena the face of his company, his attempt to make Roman Reigns is different.

This time may be his last shot to get his guy.

 

Thats why McMahon will not relent anymore. This is his final opportunity to make his man the way he sees fit, come hell or high water. Fastlane was the latest example of a 70-year-old man trying to come to terms with his own mortality as he rejected the crowds support for Dean Ambrose and Brock Lesnar to push Roman Reigns as WWEs future. Tonight was Vince McMahon putting his foot down; Roman Reigns will lead WWE into the next decade, whether you like it or not.

I honestly wish this WAS true, but it isn't backed up by the booking.

 

This was exactly what that article I wrote was about. We have two examples of experienced bookers pushing "their man" come hell or high water in history: Muchnick pushing Dory Jr in 69 and Vince Sr pushing Backlund in 78. In the latter case, the crowd was clearly clamouring for Billy Graham and were completely ignored by Vince Sr. Like it or lump it, Backlund was going to be his guy. And in both cases, they were put over absolutely anyone who was anyone.

 

Vince just hasn't pushed Roman in that way. It's been stop-start at best. He's traded wins with fucking Bray Wyatt during this supposed ace-push. There is no way at all that this is Vince pushing his guy and his guy alone at all costs. I don't buy it. I see him second-guessing himself constantly.

[C.S.]

Looks like this is making the rounds elsewhere on the interwebs:

- Cagesideseats.com reader comments: "Political hit" mentioned by name

 

- that you, dylan?

 

- pwfempire.com: "calculated hit" (never heard of this site - anyone familiar with it?)

[Loss]

Look at how great of a job they did getting Reigns over while he was in The Shield. Look at how great of a job they've done building up Brock Lesnar. Look at how great of a job they did building Rusev in 2014. This is a company that still knows how to build up stars.

[goc]

Look at how great of a job they did getting Reigns over while he was in The Shield. Look at how great of a job they've done building up Brock Lesnar. Look at how great of a job they did building Rusev in 2014. This is a company that still knows how to build up stars.

This is what lends the most credence to the "political hit" theory to me. They showed with the big Rusev push that when they WANT to get someone over they can do it and they know how.

 

Reigns was booked like crap after WrestleMania. This was a guy who went toe to toe with Lesnar and then got screwed by Rollins cash in yet it took him until the Survivor Series build to really confront Seth and go after the belt again. That's not a "we're all in on making this guy our ace!" push.

[JerryvonKramer]

Goc, why does the answer have to be political hit though? Why can't it just be them getting cold feet after hearing the crowd reactions?

[goc]

Because they've done NOTHING to fix the crowd reactions. They are the ones who created the conditions for the fans to react negatively to Reigns in the first place and then did not adjust the way they were presenting him to respond. At least the vast majority of the time.

 

When they did present him as an ass kicker who was fed up with taking people's shit and he beat up HHH at TLC, he got massive cheers. From a crowd that not 10 minutes earlier was shitting all over him. And then he got a big positive reaction in the follow up when he won the title on Raw. But they quickly flushed all that down the toilet by going back to "smiling happy Reigns" in front of the crowd and monotone stone face Roman in backstage interviews.

[C.S.]

Look at how great of a job they did getting Reigns over while he was in The Shield. Look at how great of a job they've done building up Brock Lesnar. Look at how great of a job they did building Rusev in 2014. This is a company that still knows how to build up stars.

 

Reigns has been booked like crap since. Rusev has been booked even worse.

 

They may know how to handle the initial build, but they sure as hell can't sustain it.

 

Even Brock was fucked around with his first year. I don't even mean the Cena loss, which I absolutely praised back then because it was right decision at the time (Brock walked away from his previous run and Cena was the ace, so they weren't about to put their eggs in the Brock basket again right away because that would've been a bad business decision if he had bailed a second time) - I'm referring more to the baffling Triple H series and WM loss.

[Matt D]

Everytime someone loses, someone gains as well. That's the nature of the game.

[shoe]

I went with the political hit. Even though I think the term is pretty strong. To me I feel their are different agendas going on right now. I think having Shane their has added even more pressure to HHH to assemble his piece of the pie. Whoever pushed that final segment through on Raw had to part of team HHH. Also it's clear Zayn and Balor are clearly HHH guys, and is keeping them at NXT to avoid the Tyler Breeze treatment. I feel he's willing to sacrifice pawns like Breeze, Dallas, and even Pac to keep his players on his board.

 

Dunn is fighting for his position trying to keep HHH/Steph at bay. Vince isn't surrounded by his old team on a daily basis like Patterson etc.

 

HBK said this on a SCSA podcast HHH learned from Vince and he knows the wrestling side. You can also take that as this makes HHH the ultimate at being able to manipulate and play sides against one another.

 

Reigns push has been poor because of all the different agendas, and because creative has plenty of cracks in it already. So it makes it so much more easy to exploit it.

[kjh]

As early as 1987 there were reports that Vince McMahon was looking for a new Hulk Hogan, taking into consideration Hulks age at the time. When he could no longer be relied on, McMahon put his faith in the All-American Lex Luger in 1993, then Diesel in 1994 into 1995. Before John Cena became the face of the company, Vince had his eyes set on Brock Lesnar. Then Randy Orton. Then Batista.

 

McMahon has never been able to mold his guy from the ground up. Hes always had to settle for who the crowd wants, not who he thinks would be best. And while in the past he has relented by giving Bret Hart the mantle over Lex Luger, ending Diesels title reign two years early and making his fourth-best pick John Cena the face of his company, his attempt to make Roman Reigns is different.

This time may be his last shot to get his guy.

 

I'm not sure Cena was Vince's fourth pick, as clearly Batista/Orton were Triple H's picks as future opponents that he could groom for programs down the line with rather than people to genuinely pass the torch to. It's right that Cena was initially a Heyman pet project that I believe Triple H quickly nixed, then became Stephanie's pet project when she heard him rapping on a bus (think of the irony of that), but it didn't take too long for Vince to be fully behind the push.

 

Really, Vince's guy from the spring of 2001 until Cena overtook him was Triple H. He was the top star of the "A" brand, Monday Night Raw. Everything revolved around him. There was no effort to replace him during that time, as he either demolished everyone in his path or those he didn't (Lesnar, Batista) were quickly demoted to Smackdown so he could have fresh meat to consume.

[Loss]

 

Look at how great of a job they did getting Reigns over while he was in The Shield. Look at how great of a job they've done building up Brock Lesnar. Look at how great of a job they did building Rusev in 2014. This is a company that still knows how to build up stars.

 

Reigns has been booked like crap since. Rusev has been booked even worse.

 

They may know how to handle the initial build, but they sure as hell can't sustain it.

 

Even Brock was fucked around with his first year. I don't even mean the Cena loss, which I absolutely praised back then because it was right decision at the time (Brock walked away from his previous run and Cena was the ace, so they weren't about to put their eggs in the Brock basket again right away because that would've been a bad business decision if he had bailed a second time) - I'm referring more to the baffling Triple H series and WM loss.

 

 

They know how to sustain it. They don't want to sustain it. They were done with Rusev. They decided to make something out of Brock finally and then followed through with it. I don't believe anything in WWE happens by accident other than fan responses.

[The Man in Blak]

I went with the political hit. Even though I think the term is pretty strong. To me I feel their are different agendas going on right now. I think having Shane their has added even more pressure to HHH to assemble his piece of the pie. Whoever pushed that final segment through on Raw had to part of team HHH. Also it's clear Zayn and Balor are clearly HHH guys, and is keeping them at NXT to avoid the Tyler Breeze treatment. I feel he's willing to sacrifice pawns like Breeze, Dallas, and even Pac to keep his players on his board.

 

Dunn is fighting for his position trying to keep HHH/Steph at bay. Vince isn't surrounded by his old team on a daily basis like Patterson etc.

 

HBK said this on a SCSA podcast HHH learned from Vince and he knows the wrestling side. You can also take that as this makes HHH the ultimate at being able to manipulate and play sides against one another.

 

Reigns push has been poor because of all the different agendas, and because creative has plenty of cracks in it already. So it makes it so much more easy to exploit it.

 

This is where I'm at as well, though I would put forward another potential factor, which I mentioned in the Rumble thread a while back. Whether they're trying to be clever/meta or just incompetent, I think they're trying to manufacture the same sort of audience sympathy for Reigns that was (naturally) occurring for Daniel Bryan:

 

- The Sheamus cash-in is analogous to Randy Orton's cash-in at SummerSlam.

- The Royal Rumble defeat can be read as being analogous to Daniel Bryan not being in the Rumble (except "better" because Our Guy, Reigns, actually fought all the way from the beginning!).

- The final beatdown on Raw is analogous to HHH beating down a handcuffed Daniel Bryan on Raw.

 

I think they had a myopic view of why Daniel Bryan was successful. Rather than seeing Bryan's success as appreciation for being a once-in-a-generation talent, I think they saw his crowd reactions as being a result of the fans buying into Bryan vs. The Authority (even if that buy-in was more on a meta level), just like they had bought into Austin/Rock vs. McMahon and are trying to recapture lightning in a bottle with Reigns. It's short-sighted incompetence that, nevertheless, gives someone like HHH all sorts of opportunities to exert influence.

[goc]

 

 

Look at how great of a job they did getting Reigns over while he was in The Shield. Look at how great of a job they've done building up Brock Lesnar. Look at how great of a job they did building Rusev in 2014. This is a company that still knows how to build up stars.

Reigns has been booked like crap since. Rusev has been booked even worse.

 

They may know how to handle the initial build, but they sure as hell can't sustain it.

 

Even Brock was fucked around with his first year. I don't even mean the Cena loss, which I absolutely praised back then because it was right decision at the time (Brock walked away from his previous run and Cena was the ace, so they weren't about to put their eggs in the Brock basket again right away because that would've been a bad business decision if he had bailed a second time) - I'm referring more to the baffling Triple H series and WM loss.

 

They know how to sustain it. They don't want to sustain it. They were done with Rusev. They decided to make something out of Brock finally and then followed through with it. I don't believe anything in WWE happens by accident other than fan responses.

 

Yea I don't see Rusev as an example of incompetence. They built him up for a whole year to give Cena a Mania opponent. If he beats Cena where the hell does he go from there? You can't be the unbeatable foreign menace heel forever. It's a limited shelf life gimmick.

 

I *liked* the new direction they started with him with the whole Lana/Summer Rae triangle thing it just didn't work because he got stuck doing it opposite Lana & Dolph. Lana was an awful babyface and Dolph Ziggler is terrible at absolutely everything. But Rusev and Summer Rae were doing great in their parts. And he was featured in an actual STORY with character progression which is an extremely rare thing now for WWE.

 

Now he's stuck doing absolutely nothing because they don't care about him at all after they got all butthurt over TMZ putting out the story of Lana & Rusev being engaged.

[Luchaundead]

At this point not believing in the Hit is just foolish but, it might be time to turn our attention to the next big questions. What does Dylan have to gain by outing this hit publicly? Who is profiting off of Roman's failures? When is Matt Riddle going to come in and take his rightful place as the new face of WWE?

[BBscout]

Don't they always give everyone about a year and a half of build, fucked up or not, before they crown them?

[Slasher]

How was the article not dismissed immediately after the author claimed Hogan wasn't his guy? Umm didn't Vince sign Hogan away from AWA with the purpose of making him his franchise ace? He had Backlund, a longtime vet champion selected by his daddy, drop the title to Sheik knowing fully well that Hogan was his guy. Then if you want to be literal about the claim that he started looking for replacements in 1987, wasn't the biggest Wrestlemania built on Hogan facing the "undefeated" major attraction turned heel Andre? The first hint of him wanting Hogan replaced was 1990 or 1991 with the Warrior push, but by then Hogan already put in 6 or so years as the top guy so it can't be used as evidence Hogan wasn't his idea but rather that he wanted to sustain his success by transitioning to a younger name without suffering a "rebuild". Starting with Bret Hart onward, yeah he rarely had his guy succeed in favor of the crowd appointed guy. But really, Hogan has no business being included there. I mean seriously how can Hogan not have been Vince's choice?

[Lust Hogan]

Slasher, I took that to mean Vince didn't create Hulkamania. Vince and Hogan tweaked it and got it where it needed to be but it wasn't his idea. I could be misreading that though....

 

When I thought about it, was The Undertaker Vince's greatest creation, start to finish? He was the biggest guy I could think of without putting too much thought into it.

[Jingus]

Hogan was already a big star before Vince Jr signed him, but he didn't become an insanely huge era-defining superstar until after he won the belt and the WWF started its multimedia blitzkrieg in 1984. Having a one-scene cameo in Rocky III was nice and all, but it's nowhere near the same level of fame that Hogan had from starring in MTV specials and hosting Saturday Night Live and having his own Saturday-morning cartoon. All that stuff required Hogan's charisma to work, but it was certainly Vince's business savvy that made it all happen in the first place.

[Slasher]

Exactly. Vince knew he wanted a guy as the face of the expansion to a national promotion and he handpicked Hogan. It wasn't like Vince lacked alternative options if Hogan wasn't in the picture but Vince did pick Hogan as his guy...while Hogan was under contract to Verne Gagne and competing in Japan. Verne never thought to push Hogan as the bonafide top player and only jerked him around with the fuck finishes in AWA. Vince saw money in Hogan and swooped in and got him with plans to make him the guy.

 

As for the Undertaker, the gimmick and everything was in fact a WWF creation and it is why he makes absolutely good sense as Vince's weapon against Shane for Mania regardless if he was a "babyface". He owes just about all his success in his career to Vince and the WWF/E.