Under-the-radar wrestling book recommendations

[DMJ]

Yea, I'm only about a quarter into the Vince book (Ringmaster) and I think its really, really good and would strongly recommend to anyone and everyone here. 

I wasn't sure what new groundbreaking info the author would have - I mean, if you've read as many books and columns about wrestling and listened to as many shoots and podcasts about wrestling that many of us have over the past 20 years, its not like there's this huge treasure trove of revelations that the author somehow found.

But what makes it worth reading is:

(a) I'm not sure anybody's ever woven together all the various aspects of the "Vince story" in such a thorough, engaging and "no holds barred" way. So, yes, you get the Snuka stuff and the Moolah stuff and the war with the NWA, but its all told as part of one piece without losing any of the critical details. 

(b) The author raises some PWO-level discussion points. I'm not giving anything away here, as in the first chapter (maybe even the preface or introduction), he describes a concept called "neo-kayfabe" that we've all discussed before but I'm not sure has ever been described in a major book or even been boiled down as well as the author does. Later, he addresses the idea of "smarts" and "marks" in a way that I also found to be, if not groundbreaking, still thought-provoking (positing that the idea of "marks" may have actually been an invention by promoters to work the wrestlers, not the audience). As I get through the book, I'm sure there'll be more (or at least I hope so).

(c) There are details that even the most knowledgeable wrestling historian would probably be surprised to learn. For example, there's quite a bit of research into Vince's childhood that I'd never read about in such detail before - probably because, as the author exposes, its not necessarily clear what's true, what's false, what's been embellished, what's been hidden, and what just got lost in the passing of time due to poor public records. 

 

Worth reading, even if you think you've heard the story a million times before. This will likely go down as the definitive story of the WWE.

[Robert S]

I am about as far through the  book as you are and am actually a bit disappointed. The stuff about Vince's childhood is really good, but apart from that it is really shallow wrt Vince's stuff. It jumps over from Vince's highschool time to the Ende of the 1970ies within a couple of pages and afterwards it is basically retreading the ground of Hornbaker's book about the death of the territory system than being a real biography.

I the author did his own investigations about the NC time while afterwards he was relying on other sources. The Dr. D stuff for example, relies a lot on the corresponding Dark Side episode.

[Embrodak]

“Ringmaster” was pretty disappointing, fwiw. Ending with the Higher Power promo and encapsulating the last 22 years in as many pages is a massive L for a book with that subtitle. I hate to be a weird Commie reactionary pedant, but the story of Vince requires Cornette’s attendance figures for pre-Vince territory wrestling, requires discussion of Vince as a rentier and not a capitalist, requires discussion of how Vince both prefigured and followed the Silicon Valley model, requires his descent into madness over the last 15 years or so. It’s a fine encapsulation of Vince for a general audience who prob stopped paying attention in 1999, which is probably what it’s really for, but it does not really achieve what it sets out to. The definitive Vince biography may not even be possible until long after anybody cares; if WWE persists as an entity, you better believe they ain’t giving his personal papers to any historian with any hostility to them whatsoever.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I think the upcoming multi part series about McMahon on the Behind The Bastards podcast will really dive deep. Robert Evans, the host ( not that Robert Evans) is a journalist who leaves no stones unturned. 

[Embrodak]

The thing is, Evans is working from the same public sources as the rest of us. Josie Riesman (she’s come out as trans, mind your pronouns, folks) at least did some leg work to find some childhood friends and estranged relatives to say that Vince is full of shit when he portrays himself as a wild child and bad boy. What will flesh him out is texts, emails, and letters between Stephanie, Shane, Linda, Trips, Prichard, Patterson, Laurinaitis, etc, as well as those from the man himself to whoever, and those may never see the light of day. Modern day obelisk!

[brockobama]

Years ago I was holding out hope that Taker might finally leave the company and do a grumpy old man tell-all shoot interview that got to the heart of some of this stuff. Unfortunately he's gone the opposite direction.

Thanks for the heads up about Josie btw, had no idea.

[C.S.]

This thread sold me on the Josie Riesman book. I just used a bunch of credits to get it on Kindle. 

[Embrodak]

10 hours ago, C.S. said:

This thread sold me on the Josie Riesman book. I just used a bunch of credits to get it on Kindle. 

It’s a solid read. If you’ve read Rick Perlstein’s work, there’s a reason they got him to blurb it, but it’s not as dense and meticulous because it’s about one guy, not a whole sociopolitical order and culture. She sometimes has nice turns of phrase, but she also has a proclivity for leaden cliches and stating the obvious - especially at chapter ends, where it’s particularly glaring. Certain choices, like really expanding on the time where Vince got super shitfaced with the boys as sort of a farewell to his “normal” self, are inspired, and the parts focusing on his boyhood are interesting. Ends rather abruptly in 1999, which she says is because of word limits by the publisher. Not enough economics, not enough sociological analysis of wrestling, but solid, if slight, book. I was disappointed because I thought it would be more thorough, but it’s a good jumping off point.

[Sweet Brown Koko]

Got this today at the comic book store.

[C.S.]

I'm reading through the Josie Riesman book. Shorter chapters should have been the first change the editor pushed for. I don't mean editing out most of the content. Keep everything. Just split it up into smaller, more digestible chunks. The chapters are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long, and they really have no reason to be.

Other than that, it's informative so far. Dark and depressing - as you would expect - but informative.

[C.S.]

I finished the Josie Riesman book, and I pretty much agree with all of the pros and cons everyone has posted here. 

So much of this, of course, we already know. But there is definitely new information sprinkled in too. To have it all in one place definitely paints a fuller picture.

Ending it with 1999, more or less, didn't really bother me. To be honest, I'm not sure what else could really be covered. The author still touches on Trump, the recent sex scandals, etc. It's not as if those details are omitted. 

I honestly don't anticipate a follow-up book. If it happens, it will be because of strong sales and nothing else IMO.

[Embrodak]

8 hours ago, C.S. said:

I finished the Josie Riesman book, and I pretty much agree with all of the pros and cons everyone has posted here. 

So much of this, of course, we already know. But there is definitely new information sprinkled in too. To have it all in one place definitely paints a fuller picture.

Ending it with 1999, more or less, didn't really bother me. To be honest, I'm not sure what else could really be covered. The author still touches on Trump, the recent sex scandals, etc. It's not as if those details are omitted. 

I honestly don't anticipate a follow-up book. If it happens, it will be because of strong sales and nothing else IMO.

She says one is planned, that the reason it ended where it did is because the publisher gave her a word limit. I honestly think Vince slowly spiraling into mustache-culminating insanity and becoming an active and ongoing menace to the very empire that he built, and its employees, is as important to his story as the well-worn story of how he built it, and I’d love an oral history of Linda McMahon’s failed electoral bids, which I imagine would take the place of the childhood sleuthing in this one.

[C.S.]

5 hours ago, Embrodak said:

I’d love an oral history of Linda McMahon’s failed electoral bids, which I imagine would take the place of the childhood sleuthing in this one.

Would that really be covered though?

This book already goes into her political career, albeit briefly, culminating in her "ascension" into Trump's cabinet.

[Embrodak]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

Would that really be covered though?

This book already goes into her political career, albeit briefly, culminating in her "ascension" into Trump's cabinet.

I just want the deets!

[Dav'oh]

Are under-the-radar wrestling movies ok? 

The Legend of Baron Toa (2020). "In this Kiwi action-comedy, a Tongan entrepreneur returns to his old neighbourhood and inadvertently causes the theft of his late father’s valued pro wrestling title belt. Failing to retrieve it, his only choice is to embrace his father's legacy." 6.4 stars from IMDb. Free if you download torrents, like I'm about to. This reviewer was enthusiastic: "like a bombastic graphic novel brought roaring to cinematic life, where every punch, beat and quotable piece of dialogue is a certified haymaker." We'll see...

[C.S.]

12 hours ago, Dav'oh said:

Are under-the-radar wrestling movies ok? 

The Legend of Baron Toa (2020). "In this Kiwi action-comedy, a Tongan entrepreneur returns to his old neighbourhood and inadvertently causes the theft of his late father’s valued pro wrestling title belt. Failing to retrieve it, his only choice is to embrace his father's legacy." 6.4 stars from IMDb. Free if you download torrents, like I'm about to. This reviewer was enthusiastic: "like a bombastic graphic novel brought roaring to cinematic life, where every punch, beat and quotable piece of dialogue is a certified haymaker." We'll see...

They're okay to me!

I was going to tell you that "The Legend of Baron To'a" is on Prime and Hulu (subscription services) and The Roku Channel (free with ads), but you're not from the U.S., so that won't help you much. 

[C.S.]

The Guy Evans Nitro book is $2 on Kindle - an absolute steal at that price!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FJWS2XF

[Sweet Brown Koko]

Just picked this up today. Thanks for the heads up!

[Al]

There’s a live show at the Philadelphia Mausoleum of Contemporary Art tomorrow to promote the release of Ringmaster.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CsLpcM9OnyK/?igshid=MTIyMzRjYmRlZg==

[C.S.]

I just bought the Madusa book. I'll post my thoughts after I'm finished.

[Migs]

I read Tod Gordon's book, Tod is God. Good, not great. Some interesting detail around the startup of the company and how Heyman ends up taking over, but a lot of the book covers key people and moments in a non-linear way. It reads a bit like a shoot interview, which is maybe not surprising given that his coauthor was Sean Oliver.

The book did get me jonesing to read more about ECW. I have Sabu and New Jack's books on tap (ready to take everything with big grains of salt!). I also read the Candido book a while back. Anyone other ECW recommendations? Feels like unfortunately hard to find good inside histories of the company - too many of the key players are either dead, did way too many drugs to have a good memory, or aren't talking (Heyman, Styles).

EDIT: Did some searching - has anyone read the Justin Credible book? That's the only other autobiography turning up on Amazon.

[The Thread Killer]

7 minutes ago, Migs said:

I read Tod Gordon's book, Tod is God. Good, not great. Some interesting detail around the startup of the company and how Heyman ends up taking over, but a lot of the book covers key people and moments in a non-linear work. It reads a bit like a shoot interview, which is maybe not surprising given that his coauthor was Sean Oliver.

The book did get me jonesing to read more about ECW. I have Sabu and New Jack's books on tap (ready to take everything with big grains of salt!). I also read the Candido book a while back. Anyone other ECW recommendations? Feels like unfortunately hard to find good inside histories of the company - too many of the key players are either dead, did way too many drugs to have a good memory, or aren't talking (Heyman, Styles).

Have you read Hardcore History by Scott Williams? It’s pretty good. Well researched and he got a bunch of good interviews.

[Migs]

1 minute ago, The Thread Killer said:

Have you read Hardcore History by Scott Williams? It’s pretty good. Well researched and he got a bunch of good interviews.

It looks familiar, but if I read it, it was 15 years ago. Might need a re-read.

[C.S.]

Drew McIntyre's book is $2.99 on Kindle.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PVYDPJW