Current Lucha Talk

[stro]

Negro Casas vs Rey Hechicero I like MUCH MUCH MUCH more than the junior shit.

[Matt D]

I enjoyed the Guerreros a ton in 2014 (Also Averno/Mephisto/Ephesto) because they were straight up rudos in an age of Ingobernables. With the Guerreros, it's hard not to compare them back to previous versions, however. Euforia holds his own but it's just not the same as some of the guys who came before be it Dragon Rojo, Jr., Atlantis, a younger Bucanero, or even Olimpico in the mid-00s before he lost his mask and brought an element of unusual height and athleticism.

[stro]

So...what's the deal with the Parka/Rush ending? They just kind of stopped, posed, and walked off. Was there something to the rules I wasn't aware of?

[EricR]

Ref threw out the match and dudes in suits started coming out from the back. Both knew they were likely suspended so just hammed it up a bit and left.

 

And yeah Black Terry/Wotan is easily MOTY.

[pol]

I get the appeal of the sheer violence, but for me Terry/Wotan was mostly a bunch of cooperatively taking turns hitting each other which wasn't sold all that well, plus a lot of awkward moments whenever they ventured to do anything else. I thought Terry had better brawls with Cavernario and Aero Boy this year.

[stro]

I'll have my full posting sometime in the next week or month on my site, but quick hits:

 

KAMAITACHI VS DRAGON LEE

 

Kama has some nice heel swag, but nothing impressive here. Super short falls, repeated spots, Dragon Lee seems to have a move set made completely of signatures from popular US and Japanese stars. General lack of selling, flow, and story, but some cool spots.

 

MASCARA DORADA VS CAVERNARIO

 

Super short falls, lack of selling/flow/story. All of Dorada's matches in the CWC were better.

 

NEGRO CASAS VS REY HECHICERO

 

This was a lot of fun. Falls were a little longer, but they had a clear progression of style and feel. First fall was mat based, second fall was Casas baiting Rey into making mistakes, third fall was strikes and bombs. Plus a Backlund Lift, which I will never not mark for.

 

RUSH VS L.A. PARK

 

Really liked the wild atmosphere, super hot crowd, craziness of the spotlights whirling around, random sirens, fans throwing trash, and so forth. La Parka, fat and 50, still has more charisma than 90% of guys working today. Hampered by the complete lack of a finish.

 

 

REY MYSTERIO JR. VS PRINCE PUMA

 

Nice to see Rey in much better shape and performance than the end of his WWE run. Nice story of Puma trying to prove he was better than Rey, and forcing Rey to change up his offense to keep up with the younger, stronger, bigger, faster guy. I assume there were some sloppy spots based on the awkward cuts to the crowd when they were on the ropes. Matt Striker continues to be about as awful of a commentator since Mark Madden.

 

 

 

TRAUMA 1 VS CANUS LUPUS

 

Grimmas, what the fuck. This was TERRIBLE. These guys were so fucking bad at everything in the match. The shittiest, weakest looking brawling, no fire from either guy, terrible pacing, terrible selling. Just terrible. All of it. The blood did not save it, and the amount of blood for a weak ass plastic chair shot was ridiculous to begin with. 115 year old Dory Funk Jr. is throwing more convincing looking strikes in Japan in 2016 than these guys.

 

 

VOLADOR JR. VS CAVERNARIO

 

Another match with super short falls, no selling, no momentum, and my turn your turn shit.

 

DELTA VS GALACTAR

 

I enjoyed Galactar doing some real heel shit at the start, but that gave way to sloppy spots and trading moves with no flow. The best part was this granny completely ignoring the two brawling 6 inches away from her face.

 

 

 

 

 

So, in the end I enjoyed Casas, Rey, and La Parka still doing their things. The rest can get out. Unlike what you said in the lucha vs puro thread about Americans not liking the production or thinking it is cheap, the production of lucha is probably my favorite thing about it. A lot of neat camera angles, proper usage of hard cams, replays when you need them, cool set ups. It's like something you'd see in the background of a dive bar in a cool movie.

 

Not particularly surprised, as I tend to like 70s/80s stuff more than after than in general, but particularly in lucha where I very much enjoyed Negro/Perro/Canek/Dos Caras in the limited exposure I've had to them. Even El Solar and Halcon.

[Matt D]

What the hell is this card?

 

 

It's the least CMLL-y card I've ever seen. It's awesome, though.

[JimArg]

On the top of the poster it says "revive las mejores luchas de 2016" (in english means "relive the best matches of 2016") so this is like a 2016 rematches show. Pretty cool.

[Sean Liska]

Do any lucha experts know how many times CMLL has done a show with this type of lineup? I'm going to use this show to try to convert some people to lucha, this is as good of a chance as I have for anything outside of a big mask match.

[ohtani's jacket]

I've started using my blog to get caught up on 2016 using that playlist and whatever other recommendations I can find. The Black Terry/Aeroboy apuesta match was very good, especially when watched from all the different camera angles.

[Dylan Waco]

I like Terry v Wotan, but maybe I need to watch it again, because I didn't think it was even close to as good as Trauma v Lupus on first watch

[El-P]

Watch TripleMania at your own peril.

 

Well, you did warn me.

 

It was like the worst LU show ever. It never really felt like a true lucha libre show like CMLL was anyway, with zero trios match. Johnny Mundo's entrance was gold though, but the match with Pentagon was not very good. Usual Mundo spotfest without heeling (he looks much better in 6-men matches in LU). Pentagon kinda working face didn't do much for me either, although he looks like a star. The three-way was just that, a three-way with its share of clunkiness. Still don't think much of Texano Jr. He's solid. I don't see anything special in him. The four team tag team title match was a total clusterfuck, with some great diving sequences. What else... The LU match I liked, although it lacked heat, only Rey Jr. was really over (and damn, was he over). Vampiro totally fucked up on announcing was classic though. Had me rolling.

 

The only thing I enjoyed in the undercard was the Apache match, probably because it was cool to see Faby still looks like a excellent worker. Going back to the ARSION days, when Mari Apache broke the mold of crappy luchadoras before Faby became even better. Well, it was different and clusterfucky but it did tell a story, and Faby is a trooper. The old FMW fan in me enjoyed the bloodletting. Speaking of which, I did love the main event. Crazy, insane brawling which actually built into the insanity, although one can argue the selling was not exactly consistent (it wasn't, but it was all about the insanity). I could have done without the run-ins at the end (damn, Damian is still around ? And Psychosis has become kinda fat), pretty useless, especially the swerve with Doc Wagner, but the final spot was grand in its ECW stupidity. Dunno if I'd call this a great match, but the seediness, dirtyness and plain crass violence was something else. Gotta love the fact kids are in the audience. Mexico. A different kind of culture. I admit I like my pro-wrestling in its non-hygienist glory. So there. Great intros too BTW, especially Psycho Clown. Well, I'd probably call this a MOTYC anyway.

 

So, pretty clusterfucky card, with tons of stuff that didn't look too good and wasted potential, but one memorable match/angle in the undercard and one amazing crazy main event. AAA does look like a completely different product than CMLL. I'm sure the pure lucha fan hate AAA. Is Konnan involved with them still ?

[soup23]

I like Terry v Wotan, but maybe I need to watch it again, because I didn't think it was even close to as good as Trauma v Lupus on first watch

Took two watches for me to appreciate it but I still see it in the great match range unlike lupus vs trauma which is a top 100 match of all time for me.

[Matt D]

I veer from my SC compadres and put the Trauma match higher too.

[stro]

Someone please explain what I'm missing in that Trauma/Canus match.

[Matt D]

I actually think one reason I'm higher on it than Phil/Eric relatively is that I watched both feeds at the same time, syncing them up and pausing at the few times one cuts. Some parts of the match are way better on one feed than the other and vice versa and the sound is much better on the cut version. It's worth the bit of extra effort.

[Phil Schneider]

Someone please explain what I'm missing in that Trauma/Canus match.

 

There are a bunch of reviews of that match, here is ours.

 

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2016/09/ongoing-2016-moty-list-lupus-v-trauma-1.html

 

This board has folders full of people commenting on matches, here is the one on this match

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/35450-canis-lupus-vs-trauma-i-iwrg-942016/

[stro]

IT'S GREAT! isn't really an explanation. Great near falls, great blood doesn't really tell me what people are seeing that I'm not.

[Matt D]

I'll rewatch next week and break down the narrative. I said I would anyway and life just got in the way.

[Grimmas]

IT'S GREAT! isn't really an explanation. Great near falls, great blood doesn't really tell me what people are seeing that I'm not.

There is two pretty damn long paragraphs there explaining it.

[Phil Schneider]

IT'S GREAT! isn't really an explanation. Great near falls, great blood doesn't really tell me what people are seeing that I'm not.

Both me and Eric go into pretty specific detail about what we liked about the match. If you want me to sit down with you and go through it together my tutoring rate is $100 an hour, I usually teach the LSAT but I am happy to work through wrestling with you

[stro]

Do you accept PayPal? I read your paragraph, Phil. It's giving a run down of the match, but I don't need a run down. I watched it. I know what happens. I want to know WHY it is so great, because what I saw was weak brawling, a ridiculous blade job for a weak chair shot, and more weak brawling. Bad looking punches, bad looking chops, sloppy execution, short falls that had no sense of build up except for the last few minutes of the final fall, which had a guy go from being put in a neck brace (and it awkwardly/hilariously falling off immediately) and unable to move to him locking in a wacky submission and flipping around. It reminded me very much of the kind of matches ECW guys have today at tiny indies.

 

Similar to the Galactar/Delta match that had Delta eat a package piledriver (why was that legal, btw? Are only certain type of piledrivers illegal in Mexico or was it a promotional rule?) and doing rolling German suplexes 15 seconds later.

[Jetlag]

I don't see what's great about the match either. The brawling wasn't near good enough and I disliked the use of the Tombstone. And I'm a fan of both guys.

[overbooked]

Someone please explain what I'm missing in that Trauma/Canus match.

There's an obvious risk in that explaining why it is so good that we'll veer back into Lucha/Puro Thread of Hell territory, but...

 

I think this match transcends your usual, standard wrestling criticism. It is about something far more moving and intangible than moves/selling/psychology. And so I think it works if you want a match to manipulate your emotions rather than tick-box your workrate or psychology expectations.

 

I think mask matches are the ultimate stipulation as losing the mask is the ultimate peril and a permanent one. We all wear masks in life, so seeing this play out, seeing someone exposed, humiliated but essentially showing their real true self is cathartic. Seeing the journey to that point is pretty cathartic too.

 

This match does all that so well, and really the blood and chairs are just window dressing around the story of two men protecting their masks, their identities, their souls, and doing whatever it takes to do so.

 

I was so drawn in, even on second viewing, that I couldn't see the nuts and bolts as to how they made me feel the way I did as they suspended my disbelief. I was utterly absorbed and in the moment.

 

That a match in 2016 can do that is pretty astonishing.

[fxnj]

So, basically, here's this match built around shitty your-turn-my-turn exchanges and forced epic spots like we shit on modern puro for, but it's cool because it's a mask match.