MLW Fusion, anyone watching it?

[Coffey]

MLW is fun but they're not good top to bottom. There's a lot of hit or miss. Including with the roster. Usually, from what I've seen, there will be one good act or hot match & then another either right before or right after that just bores you to tears.

Gringo Loco is a good example. That guy is never going to do anything for me. I just kind of zone out when he comes on screen. And he often gets 10-15 minutes.

[SirEdger]

I've watched last week's episode with MJF vs Davey Boy Smith Jr in the main event and as much as I like both guys, man, there was WAY TOO MANY interferences in that match, which completely killed the buzz for me. They could've easily cut that to 2 attempts of interference, leading to the run-ins by Brian Pillman Jr & Teddy Hart to neutralize The Dynasty.

Looking forward to this weekend's show as I've heard nothing but good things about the Salina de la Renta produced show, although I'm a bit skeptical that MLW would part ways with either Sami Callihan or Mance Warner.

[Tim Evans]

Haven't watched MLW since Tony left. Mostly because of that and them continuing to use Sami Callihan. With that being said, apparently, they are bringing in Savio Vega pretty soon. Might have to give it another chance. 

[Mrzfn]

I'll co-sign Callihan being a big turn off for me, I know some people really like the guy but he's just not for me. Still watching through the early episodes and his feud with MVP was a real dud, and nothing he did made much sense. Like, he went to so much trouble to challenge MVP to a boiler room match, and then he acts like he's scared of even going in the boiler room. You can't have both, Sami! And then he attacks Shane Strickland (offscreen) and abruptly announces he used to be all about his friends, like Shane Strickland (whom he never mentioned or interacted with), but now he's all about money, and neither of those things jive with his character up to this point. Some of this is booking issues, to be sure, but he doesn't help anything with his delivery.

Also speaking of early episodes, Low Ki taking the title off Strickland couldn't have come soon enough. I really liked Killshot in Lucha Underground, but Strickland as champion was a headscratcher. I wanted to like the guy but he seemed to be trying to be laid back and "cool" so hard that he came off downright sleepy in all of his promos. Plus he's got a bounty on his head the whole time and never once does he really sell this as a danger, he continually just walks around empty parking lots without a care in the world and getting beat up. Like, at some point you're asking for it buddy.

Even with some quibbles and roster members I don't like though, I'm excited to keep catching up. I'm up to the first Battle Riot and I'm really looking forward to watching it.

[The Thread Killer]

If you don't like Sami Callihan, then there may be good news for you. There have been some unconfirmed reports that the "Loser Leaves Town" stipulation in the Callihan/Warner match was a way to write Callihan off TV and out of the company altogether.  I also saw that Callihan allegedly spat at Jim Cornette at some point before/during/after the match, since he was supposedly "defending" Sonny Kiss, and there is legit heat between Callihan and Cornette over the infamous Eddie Edwards bat incident. (Cornette hates hardcore wrestling and loves Eddie Edwards.)  Some think it is unlikely that Cornette would be willing to get spat at or spat upon by Sami Callihan and that is proof that Callihan is legitimately gone.  Plus I saw that Callihan apparently did some damage to a venue at an MLW event, which MLW then had to pay for.  So he may really honestly be gone from MLW.

Or it could be a work, who knows.

In other news, Savio Vega is coming in to wrestle and be a Producer/Wrestler/Coach.  Which is awesome, if you ask me.

[Migs]

I like Callihan quite a bit in his role on Impact (stable leader, angry heel who gets comeuppance in good match on every big show). MLW seemed to run out of stuff with him after the mercenary deal ended, so I don't think him leaving would hurt much, other than that MLW's depth seems to keep dwindling. I'd guess they're going to lose MJF and Havoc in the fall, too. I'm not sure what I'd be sticking around for at that point, other than Teddy Hart doing Doomsday Canadian Destroyers (which, admittedly, are amazing).

[El-P]

14 minutes ago, Migs said:

I'm not sure what I'd be sticking around for at that point, other than Teddy Hart doing Doomsday Canadian Destroyers (which, admittedly, are amazing).

That and Salina managing cool luchadors against each other. Aries is coming, which is cool, but he'll probably be gone in a few months too.

Yeah, I mean, 90's flashback stuff like Alex Hammerstone and his I'm-doing-jobs-on-Thunder look and lifeless indy geeks like Gringo Loco ain't gonna cut it. MLW needs to inject some life into their product. Salina vs Konnan was the driving force on top of the card, they really haven't found anything that enjoyable since. The Contra stuff has been mostly a miss, although the week they beat up everyone was cool but it was ruined by the silly-ass (and offensive, honestly) angle the following week. And we still don't know who the fuck Contra are. I mean, pro-wrestling terrorist don't really work...

[Migs]

36 minutes ago, El-P said:

That and Salina managing cool luchadors against each other. Aries is coming, which is cool, but he'll probably be gone in a few months too.

Yeah, I mean, 90's flashback stuff like Alex Hammerstone and his I'm-doing-jobs-on-Thunder look and lifeless indy geeks like Gringo Loco ain't gonna cut it. MLW needs to inject some life into their product. Salina vs Konnan was the driving force on top of the card, they really haven't found anything that enjoyable since. The Contra stuff has been mostly a miss, although the week they beat up everyone was cool but it was ruined by the silly-ass (and offensive, honestly) angle the following week. And we still don't know who the fuck Contra are. I mean, pro-wrestling terrorist don't really work...

One of whom is Simon Gotch for some reason? Instead of them just yelling every week, we couldn't get some motivation from Simon about why this is happening? Or where he met up with these guys? Or anything?

Also, Tom Lawlor cuts really shitty pissed off promos. 

[C.S.]

From SEScoops (I'm not overly familiar with the site, so I'm not sure how reliable it is), "A fan on Twitter accused Bauer of 'ditching' Callihan to appease Jim Cornette, MLW’s outspoken commentator." 

If there's any truth to that, bad move IMO. I'm not a Sami fan, but even I would take him over the embarrassing and irrelevant in 2019 Jim Cornette. At least Sami's recent buzz has been mostly positive, unlike Cornette's. 

Bauer denies that it has anything to do with Cornette though. Damaging a venue seems like a weird reason. Work?

[NintendoLogic]

Imagine how much of a fuckup you have to be to get bounced from a promotion where Low Ki, Jim Cornette, LA Park, and Teddy Hart all work with no issues. Good riddance to that goof.

[SirEdger]

It's hard to imagine that Sami Callihan actually screwed up BEFORE Teddy Hart did. And I know local promotions who refuse to book Teddy anymore because of his unprofessional attitude.

[The Thread Killer]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

 I would take him over the embarrassing and irrelevant in 2019 Jim Cornette.

Like him as a person or not, Jim Cornette is an excellent color commentator.  He is able to get wrestlers and angles over through commentary better than pretty much anybody else in the game right now. He's been excellent since he did color back in WCW in the early 90's, and he even did a good job behind the microphone when he was in the WWF. Jim Cornette is one of the few color commentators who truly understands the importance of getting the talent and story over, not just trying to crack jokes and get himself over. If you're talking about overall value to the organization, I'd say that Cornette is worth more to MLW as a commentator and promo coach than Callihan has as a talent. I watch MLW every week now, and I'd miss Cornette being gone from commentary.  As others have mentioned, MLW has never really used Callihan in a prominent or key role.  I'd say he has a much more significant role in Impact then he had in MLW. I don't hate Callihan, and I enjoy him at times in Impact but as far as his being part of MLW, I won't miss him.

Secondly, the whole "irrelevance" talking point regarding Jim Cornette really needs to be put to bed.  That's a shot that The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega have both taken at Cornette over the past few years.  "Who cares if Jim Cornette likes us, he's irrelevant."  That's bullshit. He doesn't like a lot of the facets of "modern wrestling" especially the parts that come across as obviously fake, overly choreographed or unsafe.  He sees Pro Wrestling as a sport, not a performance art. Jim Cornette is old school, a traditionalist and doesn't like how Pro Wrestling has "evolved" but that doesn't make him irrelevant. Irrelevant implies insignificant or unpopular. He has one of the most downloaded and popular weekly wrestling podcasts in an exceptionally crowded field.  He's incredibly popular.  When he does meet and greets and autograph signings at conventions, he regularly outdraws 99% of the other talents. Even Conrad Thompson has admitted that, and he and Cornette aren't exactly buddies.  People might not like Cornette's opinions, people might have their shorts in a twist because he used the word "transvestite" or the fact that he hates Joey Ryan, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega or Vince Russo. I get that. As I've said ad nauseam, I don't agree with his opinions regarding a hell of a lot of things, but for people to try and write him off as irrelevant just because they don't agree with his opinion or like his delivery, that just shows a lack of understanding of what constitutes success in Pro Wrestling.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

Even Conrad Thompson has admitted that, and he and Cornette aren't exactly buddies.  

What's the story there?

I call Cornette irrelevant because he hasn't shown any ability to successfully book a wrestling promotion since 1994 or whenever Smokey Mountain Wrestling ended, and yet he acts like his word is gospel when it comes to a modern presentation.

(Someone will mention ROH, but Cornette was opposed to Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn, who - for better or worse - became major stars for ROH and are still stars now. Doesn't sound to me like someone who has his finger on the pulse.)  

The guy was fired in favor of Vince Russo twice - Vince Russo - so what does that tell you? That doesn't mean he's 100% wrong, or anywhere near that. He does make good points, and some of what he says is worth listening to and applying to a modern day promotion. But is clearly stuck in the past in many other ways too. 

Contrast that with Jerry Jarrett, who is perfectly content to talk about what worked in Memphis Wrestling without acting like he's an all-knowing guru when it comes to what would work now. Of course, a lot of his approach and philosophy would indeed work now - and should still be used a guide - but he doesn't beat people over the head with his knowledge. He simply passes it on an informative, insightful, and entertaining manner without resorting to a grating "look at me" approach. 

To be honest, I am tired of Cornette's general personality, shtick, and obnoxious feuds with Russo, Prichard, Bischoff, and whoever else (not that I'm excusing any of them either). But hey, if people are buying the bullshit Corny's selling (and clearly many are, as demonstrated by the stats you dropped), more power to him. I have no problem with that.

As for what you said about Corny's commentary vs. Callihan not being a big part of MLW, when you put it that way, I see what you mean.

MLW is lucky that they're not big enough to be harmed by any of Cornette's various controversies (Sonny Kiss, Islamophobia, dumb feuds, etc.). 

[FMKK]

4 hours ago, C.S. said:

From SEScoops (I'm not overly familiar with the site, so I'm not sure how reliable it is), "A fan on Twitter accused Bauer of 'ditching' Callihan to appease Jim Cornette, MLW’s outspoken commentator." 

If there's any truth to that, bad move IMO. I'm not a Sami fan, but even I would take him over the embarrassing and irrelevant in 2019 Jim Cornette. At least Sami's recent buzz has been mostly positive, unlike Cornette's. 

Bauer denies that it has anything to do with Cornette though. Damaging a venue seems like a weird reason. Work?

If the guy shoot spat on Cornette during a match and he was upset about it, I don't really see how you can turn around and get rid of Jim based on that.

Having listened to his Double or Nothing review before all that 'scandal' kicked off, I think it was a storm in a teacup and a whole lot of nonsense either from people who wanted to defect his criticisms or already had heat with him in the first place. I'm not some hardcore Cornette mark but I don't think he's a hardcore homophobe, just a guy in an insular business who used terminology that's a few years out of date. Hardly a cardinal sin and something that could have been quietly explained to him if you wanted to actually move forward on the issue instead of creating a phoney scandal.

[The Thread Killer]

45 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I call Cornette irrelevant because he hasn't shown any ability to successfully book a wrestling promotion since 1994 or whenever Smokey Mountain Wrestling ended, and yet he acts like his word is gospel when it comes to a modern presentation.

I don't disagree with you, that Cornette really isn't a great booker or at best his ideas are terribly outdated. There's no way he could book a modern show. I think he'd be invaluable as part of a booking committee, but by himself?  Nope. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling history, and can frequently come up with ideas and angles from the past that can be modified or used again in a modern setting, but his own original ideas...aren't really original. He booked a great old Southern Style promotion in Smoky Mountain but that wouldn't fly today. On the flip side, he thinks that if somebody tried booking a promotion today like vintage JCP was booked, it would still get over.  He might be right, and I'd love to see it tried.

But to your point, Jim Cornette is out of touch, for sure. Last year Brian Last asked Cornette who he thought should be on top of WWE right now, and Cornette's top two picks were Randy Orton and Bobby Roode. Of all the talent in WWE right now, for him to pick those two is pretty much baffling and shows he literally doesn't understand what modern fans will and won't accept.  Or more to the point, he doesn't understand what would actually work and be good. It's also an ongoing joke between Last and Cornette that Cornette hates The Miz and doesn't think he's any good, where even Brian Last can see how good The Miz is as a heel.  Part of the problem is that Cornette studied under Bill Watts, who had that whole philosophy that only former jocks could be Pro Wrestlers.

For the record, I don't disagree with Cornette regarding his opinion of Steen and Generico.  He told them Steen was too fat and needed to lose weight, and that Generico would never get over wearing the mask if fans couldn't see his facial expressions, and I think time has proved him right on both counts.  Both of them got to WWE, and Steen lost a bunch of weight before he debuted and was reportedly told to keep his weight under control, and the first thing NXT did was take the mask off Generico.

As far as Cornette getting replaced by Russo twice, that's not entirely accurate.  He didn't want to be on the WWF creative team anymore, so when Russo gave Vince the "him or me" ultimatum Cornette was more than happy to go, because he hated doing creative for Vince, and he hated working with Russo, plus he hated living and working in Connecticut. He wanted to go home to Kentucky and start a developmental territory and was happy to do it to get away from Russo.  And in TNA, Russo literally went behind Jeff Jarrett's back and got Jarrett, Dutch Mantel and Cornette all fired. It was a power play which blew up in Russo and Dixie Carter's face, but I don't think it was as simple as somebody thinking Russo was a better booker than Cornette.  But fair point, if Cornette had booked TNA they probably wouldn't have been any more successful than they were under Russo, it probably just would have sucked in a different way. Cornette claims he didn't even want to be in creative there, he wanted Dutch Mantel in charge while he worked with the talent, which is what he claims he loves doing.

I think Cornette is being used perfectly in MLW.  Like him or not, he can cut a promo and with his memory and knowledge or pro wrestling history he can suggest ideas to guys that will probably really help them.  That's the part of his podcasts that I love, when he gives the history of the different territories and recounts stories of who booked what angle, and why. If there was ever a class on the overall history of the sport, Jim Cornette would be the guy to teach it.  There are plenty of other guys like Steve Yohe who know all the facts that Cornette does but they don't have the speaking ability and storytelling skills. Hell, I think they should have a class like that at the WWE performance center, except Vince thinks Pro Wrestling history started with the first Wrestlemania.

As far as I know, there isn't any actual heat between Conrad Thompson and Jim Cornette, but Conrad has said on more than one occasion that Cornette's podcast is just as popular as some of his, if not more so...and we know how insanely popular Conrad's shows are. Cornette (and Brian Last) sniped at Conrad during the whole Bischoff/Cornette Twitter feud and Cornette has steadfastly refused to appear at any Starrcast events which are owned and run by Conrad Thompson. Plus, Conrad is buddies with the guys who run AEW, so it doesn't take much to guess where that puts him in Cornette's book.  Conrad has maturely and wisely sidestepped every opportunity to get into any spats with Jim Cornette, I think he knows that is a no win proposition.

[El-P]

Ok. So, first off, MLW losing Callihan is a big hit to their product. Although he had not been featured as heavily lately, in a company that is infamous for under-delievering in big matches, Callihan was the one guy who always delivered, as showed again by this match vs Mance. Again, I've said it before, Callihan is easily an MVP in term of making a feud and the big match important. His brawls are memorable, he isn't afraid to kill himself nor to be a legit disgusting heel (although he can work some lighter stuff in too). 

Second, I have no idea where the "damages" came from, I gather it's not from the Mance match, because if it is, then it's really ridiculous. Nothing done in that match looked like it damaged anything in the bleachers. Plus, ol'Mancer was up there bumping on those bleachers too, so why isn't he responsible in some ways ? Also, gotta love Bauer last posts before this one, talking about how MLW is "gritty" and "for renegades" and shit, and then going "ohhh, you broke stuff, you're fired !". Also, some guy apparently replied about the shitty pay condition MLW puts its worker through, which I thought was interesting.

Third, the Corny stuff is odd. If I didn't know better, I'd call "work" on this one. But I guess I simply over-estimated Corny's brillance on the mic that time, as he was simply always legit shitting on Callihan, which in that case, I understand why Sami would be pissed. And the line about "freaks doing goofy shit" was very reminiscent of his comment on the DON Battle Royal... Funny how Corny's disdain of garbage wrestling totally depends of the worker. I mean, if there's a sick fuck in the match, it's more Mance Warner for going through those gory shots with the staples, but I guess he's fine and not a gimmick because he's cosplaying Buckhouse Buck. I can't wait to hear Corny droll over his mic when the two Von Erich's brothers (from a family with dignity and integrity, LOLage) re-do the concession stand brawl against fellow Sheik cosplayer Samael next week (a match I'm actually looking forward too, but that's neither here nor there).

Fourth, well, yeah, Corny still talking about the Bucks and Omega like they ain't shit totally makes him irrelevant as far as understanding today's pro-wrestling. Hell, he could simply look at how Callihan throws some *great* looking punches, or how his brutal looking piledriver is actually pretty safe when you really look closely. He's a fucking worker. But I guess one accident against his friend Eddie Edward, who also works insane garbage brawl style these days and excels at it, was enough to write off Callihan. Owen Hart did way more damage to Steve Austin, but it doesn't count...

As far as the rest of the show, well, not enough Salina flavored to me. She basically did the intro and that was it as far as being a special episode. The match with Ricky Martinez was there (El Sicario just isn't anything special). Low-Ki vs LA Park will hopefully happen. Gotta love Salina motherfucking Martinez though. Was that bleeped on BEING ? Rey Horus vs Flamita was cool and all, but did not mean anything as it was thrown there cold. Also I feel they would work a better match in Mexico. Basically, El Hijo del Vikingo vs Laredo Kid/Daga is was not.

Is Aries gonna show up eventually ? Because at the pace they are going with the debut, Savio Vega (who's 54, who are we kidding ?) is gonna be ready for the summer tapings of 2020...

[The Thread Killer]

6 minutes ago, El-P said:

Is Aries gonna show up eventually ? Because at the pace they are going with the debut, Savio Vega (who's 54, who are we kidding ?) is gonna be ready for the summer tapings of 2020...

They tape a month at a time, right?  I think Aries is booked for the next set of tapings, so I think by August he should be all over the shows.  Until he and Low Ki get booked together and they both simultaneously walk out, or something.  Savio is definitely up there in age, but he can do those old school Puerto Rico style brawls, and he is also apparently being brought in to work behind the scenes as well.

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

They tape a month at a time, right?  I think Aries is booked for the next set of tapings, so I think by August he should be all over the shows.  Until he and Low Ki get booked together and they both simultaneously walk out, or something.

Loser Leaves Town. Double KO. Then Aries gets up and quietly leave, iMPACT style and Low-Ki throws a fit because he was not the most unprofessional. And really, as workers, I love them both, so honestly I'd love at least one big match between the two.

5 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Savio is definitely up there in age, but he can do those old school Puerto Rico style brawls, and he is also apparently being brought in to work behind the scenes as well.

Gotta love the picture they used of him. I think it was taken from some 1995 WWF Superstars era or something. Yeah, I guess, always been a Savio fan. Hey, maybe we can have Savio vs LA Park... MLW is at its best when they go into latino shit.

[sek69]

3 minutes ago, El-P said:

Hey, maybe we can have Savio vs LA Park... MLW is at its best when they go into latino shit.

 

Wow, I never knew I wanted to see that until right now. BOOK IT COURT!

[C.S.]

Before I post this, I want to acknowledge the great posts and discussion by @The Thread Killer and @El-P. People like them are why I love this board so much. We can agree to disagree, while still having a civil and quite frankly kickass debate where we acknowledge each other's valid points along the way. 

(BTW, Savio Vega rules! Met him and Miguel Perez at an airport once, and they couldn't have been nicer. I actually glanced up, noticed someone with massive back hair, and said to myself "that looks like Miguel Perez" before I even saw his face. Sure enough, it was.)

Anyway, it looks like there's another controversy brewing for MLW. Click on the tweet because there are more comments below.

 

[The Thread Killer]

Hell yeah. LA Park vs. Savio Vega?

That calls for a...

[The Thread Killer]

2 minutes ago, C.S. said:

We can agree to disagree

I never agreed to that.

[SirEdger]

6 hours ago, C.S. said:

Before I post this, I want to acknowledge the great posts and discussion by @The Thread Killer and @El-P. People like them are why I love this board so much. We can agree to disagree, while still having a civil and quite frankly kickass debate where we acknowledge each other's valid points along the way. 

(BTW, Savio Vega rules! Met him and Miguel Perez at an airport once, and they couldn't have been nicer. I actually glanced up, noticed someone with massive back hair, and said to myself "that looks like Miguel Perez" before I even saw his face. Sure enough, it was.)

Anyway, it looks like there's another controversy brewing for MLW. Click on the tweet because there are more comments below.

 

At the pace David Starr is calling out promotions the way he does, how long before major promotions refuse to book him?

[NotJayTabb]

15 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

 

As far as I know, there isn't any actual heat between Conrad Thompson and Jim Cornette, but Conrad has said on more than one occasion that Cornette's podcast is just as popular as some of his, if not more so...and we know how insanely popular Conrad's shows are. Cornette (and Brian Last) sniped at Conrad during the whole Bischoff/Cornette Twitter feud and Cornette has steadfastly refused to appear at any Starrcast events which are owned and run by Conrad Thompson. 

As I recall, Cornette said he didn't want to be a hypocrite by slamming Omega and the Bucks, then making money by piggy-backing off their event. Like Vince Russo was going to do, before Cody had him kicked out.

[Laz]

We don't deserve David Starr. That is all.