Is Impact* the best wrestling promotion in history? *(Now TNA again, 2024)

[El-P]

2 hours ago, strobogo said:

Also, why the fuck is Tommy Dreamer still around?

He's office. And although I don't really need to see him in the ring in 2023, he still can cut one hell of a promo, as demonstrated twice over the last few months. Him winning the Digital Media title from Kenny King was actually a legit real feel-good moment, and damn this guy sure needed one after losing his mother and Terry Funk in a very short time.

The ex-WWE guys are used exactly how they should, really. Even when Nick Aldis came in, as a former TNA World Champ and with the "NWA hype" (yeah, lol, I know), they basically used him to put over Shelley, and then Eric Young, and then bye-bye. Maclin has been slowly built to winning the world title and it felt warranted, he's been such a great worker since he showed up (with a heavy sense of both Foley & Austin circa 1996, which I love). Guys like Heath, Brian Myers and the likes are good veterans to have around and they are filing spots that is ok for them to have, they don't outshine anyone (and really, if you consider the current regular roster, that's 3 people out of 20 in the Battle Royal, so it's a small minority). Booking is very conscious of the past mistakes. Trinity coming in a star is pretty much the exception, but in her case it make sense that she would be pushed that hard, and she sure has over-delivered to me.

 IMPACT  TNA works wonders as a "big fishes in small pond" company (which is maybe what I like the most in pro-wrestling after all, as a old ECW fan), and I sure hope they keep in the direction they have spent the last 5 years to rebuilt the perception about them. If Dolph Ziggler shows up at Hard to Kill and challenges Shelley for the TNA title and wins it, then you know the bad TNA is back, but I highly doubt that's what they are gonna do. 

[El-P]

Gotta say this about Bully Ray too. I wasn't sure how I felt about it at all when he showed up last year, especially since he said some really dumb things in the past. But I gotta say, he's been nothing but a positive. Great at promos, great at angles, knows exactly how to work with his own limitations and get the most out of it, puts other talent over and has no insecurities about his character at all (was dead afraid of PCO, can do a dance-off with Sonny Kiss, can sell for Josh Alexander's wife, can do a job for Jordynne Grace). And really it has to be said, it's pretty much in synch with what Team 3D did during their entire stint in TNA. So yeah, whatever one thinks of him personally, I have all the time in the world for Bully Ray in a promotion I enjoy. 

[strobogo]

It's 2023 and we got mfs saying it's actually good that Tommy Dreamer and Bubba Ray Dudley on TV. That wasn't even a good thing in 2003. TNA did their ECW nostalgia shit nearly 15 years ago, yet they're still using these dudes. 

[El-P]

If you watched the product, you'd know why Bully Ray has been a positive. Also, Bully Ray is not an ECW tribute act, at all. They did a Team 3D reunion for the 1000th episode, and why not, it was a special case, and Team 3D has been a big part of the good years of TNA. But Bully Ray ? That's actually 100% a TNA character. 

[strobogo]

I don't watch the current product. I did watch Bully Ray era TNA, and Aces & Eights was so dogshit that's around the time I completely checked out of TNA entirely until sometime into the Don Callis era. Also Bubba Ray fucking sucks and always has, even if Bully Ray was his peak.

[El-P]

27 minutes ago, strobogo said:

I did watch Bully Ray era TNA, and Aces & Eights was so dogshit that's around the time I completely checked out of TNA entirely until sometime into the Don Callis era.

Well, Aces & Eights was most probably the worst major angle in TNA history ever. And that's saying something. That was Brucie working his magic creative talents. Totally unbearable stuff, and Bully was the centerpiece of it, I give you that. He probably had bad stuff to do in Corgan's NWA too, because Corgan's NWA.

[Autistic Dragon]

If nothing else, Bully Ray is still one of the best at getting legitimate heel heat in modern wrestling. This man can make crowds straight up hate him when he needs to and that's becoming a rare talent.

 

[strobogo]

I feel like that actually isn't a good thing in modern wrestling. Legitimate heel heat in a long post-kayfabe era is the same thing as X-Pac/go away heat.

[El-P]

Speaking about companies grabbing talent, TNA signing Leon Slater is telling of the company getting more aggressive in building something fresh and exciting. Slater is the UK 19 years old prodigy than many think of as a future WIll Ospreay. Now, that's ridiculous unattainable praise at this point, but he's indeed already great for his age. I think I'm more interested for this TNA "relaunch" than anything else on the horizon right now.

[sek69]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:41 PM, strobogo said:

I feel like that actually isn't a good thing in modern wrestling. Legitimate heel heat in a long post-kayfabe era is the same thing as X-Pac/go away heat.

Legitimate hate like Bubba in ECW asking a girl in the front row learned how to suck dick from her mom = not a great thing in modern wrestling. 

Legitimate hate like Bully Ray in Impact/TNA by being an actually despicable heel with no redeeming qualities (like how MJF was up until the Cole stuff) = actually pretty great in modern wrestling. 

As someone who grew up with Tully Blanchard as my heel role model,  anyone who tries to be an actual unlikeable asshole heel instead of the "cool heels" that have been done to death since the nWo gets a thumbs up from me. 

 

 

[strobogo]

Legitimate heat to me in nearly 2024 is "fuck this person, I don't want to watch this shit", which is not good in my book. Using Bully Ray is a good example, because I legit don't like him and do not want to watch or hear anything he's involved with, so if he were to be involved in an important angle in TNA in 2024, it will turn me off to the product.

[El-P]

57 minutes ago, strobogo said:

Legitimate heat to me in nearly 2024 is "fuck this person, I don't want to watch this shit", which is not good in my book. Using Bully Ray is a good example, because I legit don't like him and do not want to watch or hear anything he's involved with, so if he were to be involved in an important angle in TNA in 2024, it will turn me off to the product.

That's not "legitimate heat". That's "I don't like this person/worker". It has nothing to do with heel work. Bully Ray was a tremendous heel during the Josh Alexander feud, and he also was tremendous in taking his comeuppance, including taking more than most would from Josh's wife, who had been involved in those "legitimate heat" moments.

Although I must say, I don't believe there's anything like "legitimate heat" as opposed to whatever "play-along heat" would be. *everybody* is playing along, whether they want to admit it or not. However there's absolutely something about wanting to play "cool heel" as opposed to "legitimate heel". Christian Cage and Don Callis are absolutely playing legitimate heels right now, but you won't convince me for one second that *anyone*, apart from children maybe if they even watch, has "legit heat" with them. Bully Ray was like that in the last big program he worked in TNA. He was just super efficient as a performer. That's about it.

With the talk of making things innovative and faster, not too sure where he would fit nor if he's in the plans to begin with, although I wouldn't be negative about it like I was when he first was brought back (and proven wrong in the process).

[NintendoLogic]

Rick Rude for me is the archetype for what a heel should be. He was tough and skilled enough that you had to respect him as a threat while having no redeeming qualities that would make someone want to cheer for him. That's a tough tightrope to walk, and I don't know if anyone can pull it off today. MJF's cheap heat edgelord act was cringe as hell for the most part and he's been much better as a babyface.

[strobogo]

12 hours ago, El-P said:

That's not "legitimate heat". That's "I don't like this person/worker". It has nothing to do with heel work. Bully Ray was a tremendous heel during the Josh Alexander feud, and he also was tremendous in taking his comeuppance, including taking more than most would from Josh's wife, who had been involved in those "legitimate heat" moments.

Although I must say, I don't believe there's anything like "legitimate heat" as opposed to whatever "play-along heat" would be. *everybody* is playing along, whether they want to admit it or not. However there's absolutely something about wanting to play "cool heel" as opposed to "legitimate heel". Christian Cage and Don Callis are absolutely playing legitimate heels right now, but you won't convince me for one second that *anyone*, apart from children maybe if they even watch, has "legit heat" with them. Bully Ray was like that in the last big program he worked in TNA. He was just super efficient as a performer. That's about it.

With the talk of making things innovative and faster, not too sure where he would fit nor if he's in the plans to begin with, although I wouldn't be negative about it like I was when he first was brought back (and proven wrong in the process).

I think we have our wires crossed at what we see as legitimate heat. In nearly 2024, if someone is genuinely making me mad or upset, it's because they're doing something in incredibly poor taste or I just can't stand watching them.

Perhaps I'm projecting, but I don't think people are going to pay money to see a heel that genuinely upsets them get comeuppance at a wrestling show. If someone is getting me to react in a "man fuck that guy", I'm just not going to watch what they're doing. If someone is getting that legitimate heat, I think it is going to be much more of a detriment than anything because people are going to not only not watch, but tell others not to watch as well.

[Autistic Dragon]

1 minute ago, strobogo said:

I think we have our wires crossed at what we see as legitimate heat. In nearly 2024, if someone is genuinely making me mad or upset, it's because they're doing something in incredibly poor taste or I just can't stand watching them.

Perhaps I'm projecting, but I don't think people are going to pay money to see a heel that genuinely upsets them get comeuppance at a wrestling show. If someone is getting me to react in a "man fuck that guy", I'm just not going to watch what they're doing. If someone is getting that legitimate heat, I think it is going to be much more of a detriment than anything because people are going to not only not watch, but tell others not to watch as well.

I don't know. The 80's were full of heels that got legitimate heat and it's considered one of the golden ages for wrestling. Same goes for the Attitude era. Though the latter saw the erosion of kayfabe and the rise of the cool heel which changed the way fans interpret wrestlers performances. 

Personally, if i see a heel that's able to draw legitimate heat i'm impressed because everyone being in on it now means heels have to work harder to draw their desired reaction.

[El-P]

6 hours ago, strobogo said:

I think we have our wires crossed at what we see as legitimate heat. In nearly 2024, if someone is genuinely making me mad or upset, it's because they're doing something in incredibly poor taste or I just can't stand watching them.

Yes, we simply aren't meaning the same thing. Of course a guy like Logan Paul for instance has "legit heat" with me and he's a huge turn-off that's one many reason I won't give WWE the time of day.

Plus I did not even bring up "legitimate heel heat" since like I said I don't really believe in it anyway, and @sek69 pretty much nailed it down talking about the "despicable heel" vs "cool heel", which is where I was going about Bully. But I must say, when he showed up, I was yawning in a very much "oh no, not him" way, after the stupid shit he said (about Mox and his rehab mots notably). But his work sure won me other. 

[El-P]

And now IMPACT gets ZSJ, tagging with Alexander vs MCMG. They seriously have been cooking lately. 

[El-P]

Ospreay working the first TNA-is-back TV tapings is quite cool. The guy really wanted to work in the actual TNA-named company. That comes after they made him a really good offer, which shows they are serious about getting bigger free agents too.

[Tenese Sarwieh]

Now that wrestlers are aware that TNA is prepared to provide lucrative contracts, they are likely to attract high-profile names in the industry. Make that play for Mone. 

[SirEdger]

Not just her. Any possible AEW talents that might want to be looking out of there in 2024 - a guy like Ricky Starks for instance. Imagine what they could do with him in TNA.

[El-P]

14 hours ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

Now that wrestlers are aware that TNA is prepared to provide lucrative contracts, they are likely to attract high-profile names in the industry. Make that play for Mone. 

Fuck yeah. Moné, Giulia. Show Coach TK how you do an actual women's division that matters. And really now, I dunno how long Trinity is still going for that ride, but Trinity & Moné reuniting in TNA would be such a coup. And selfishly speaking, I just want it.

[Control21]

 

[Alucard]

^ beat me to it!  that should be fun

[Autistic Dragon]

Okada coming to TNA to make it rain baby! Also, gotta say it's pretty big of them to acknowledge they messed up last time.

[Tenese Sarwieh]

This is the only "I'm Home" promo I want to hear.