Is Impact* the best wrestling promotion in history? *(Now TNA again, 2024)

[Dav'oh]

Didn't WWE give Dolph the chance to "book his own shit" as it were, and what he came up with was an Entrance Music gimmick?

[El-P]

36 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

booking isn't really dumb as it used to be not too long ago.

Last time booking was dumb in TNA was in 2017. That's a long-ass time ago. It's a different lifetime it seems almost.

36 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Like, I get you'd want to put Nemeth against a bigger dude just so he could bump around like a maniac, but I'd much rather see him wrestle Shelley. 

If he signed and gonna be around for a while, there's no reason not to do him vs Shelley too eventually. I could see Shelley turning heel again, he's great at it. Well he's great at everything. I'm not even sure I watched more than ten Dolph Ziggler matches in my lifetime, so it's pretty much a clean slate for me.

36 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

My main gripe with that dude, other than his in-ring skills, is that he ALWAYS wants to be an 80s hard rock guy.

Rock rock don't stop 'til ya drop. Or, something. Some would argue it's old-skewl. Others would it's corny (see what I did there ?). I have no idea, like I said, I haven't watched him at all basically, I vaguely remember a guy doing his best Shawn Michaels tribute show while wearing Billy Gunn kinda boots or something. 

[El-P]

And this, this is pretty cool :

 

 

[C.S.]

14 hours ago, El-P said:

This. Threads reeks of so many people in "tell me you don't actually watch TNA without telling me you don't actually watch TNA" mode.

Since you mean me, I'm sure you're not someone who would shit all over a wrestler despite not being familiar with their work.

14 hours ago, El-P said:

Dana Brooke. She has.... changed. Of all the people being fired from WWE, that's not who I would have picked, considering her rep (of, you know, not being good at all after years and years).

Oh wait... 

13 hours ago, El-P said:

Ok. I mean, it's not that I take anything I hear for granted anyway, but it's true I really haven't heard lots of good around here (and elsewhere, really). Then again, it happened before that I watch someone I only heard bad things about and I go "WTF are people smoking, that guy is perfectly fine".

The irony here is astounding. 

Anyway, my thoughts on Dana Brooke is that she's a hard worker who I think can thrive if given a real chance. She will never be confused with Molly Holly, Serena Deeb, or [insert your favorite "good worker" here], but is clearly passionate. 

Like @sek69 and I were discussing, TNA Is the perfect place for wrestlers like this to get a refresh and glow-up. Will it work with Dana? Who knows. The name and gimmick seems questionable, but it's hard to judge based on one five-second appearance.

I think you'll find that Dana is "perfectly fine."

[El-P]

10 hours ago, C.S. said:

Since you mean me

Well, no, I actually meant a bunch of people.

10 hours ago, C.S. said:

The irony here is astounding.

Well, not that astounding, really. Did I just kinda made fun of myself by tripping over my own feet ? Yep. Shit happens when you write as you'd talk, as the thoughts go along. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm like, whoopsie, just contradicted myself from what I was saying two sentences ago.

But then again, did I say "Her work is so and so and that's the way it is" ? Nope. I just mentioned what her rep was. And in the end, I just don't know because I just haven't seen her in eons. That's quite different from people who most probably don't watch the product and still gives their evaluation of what it is about, if not pass harsh and dismissive judgement on it (and on this particular case, yep, I mean you).

10 hours ago, C.S. said:

Like @sek69 and I were discussing, TNA Is the perfect place for wrestlers like this to get a refresh and glow-up.

It sure is, it's been established years ago already. But it's more than that too. There are people who made their career (if not spent most of it) over there too, and who should not been dismissed as second-tier talent because of it. 

[C.S.]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

That's quite different from people who most probably don't watch the product and still gives their evaluation of what it is about, if not pass harsh and dismissive judgement on it (and on this particular case, yep, I mean you).

All I actually said was:

1. TNA is not a major league promotion. Sorry, but it's not. It never has been, and it likely never will be. Does that mean it's bad, not entertaining, etc.? No. But it's not WWE, AEW, or even NJPW in terms of reach, credibility, etc. Those are basic facts. Again, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. I'll expand on this point later on in my post.

2. I was responding to the silly outrage that Moose would be putting over Nic Nemeth. I probably was too dismissive of Moose, so I'll own that, but should TNA not sign and push Nemeth? That's crazy to me. This is hardly Val Venis or The Nasty Boys showing up. 

No, I don't watch TNA anymore. Every time I have, it has been a profoundly disappointing experience - including when my boy Christian was there on loan from AEW and became once again the greatest TNA World Champion of this or any other era.

TNA, to me, has always felt like a company with an identity crisis throwing shit to the wall to see what would stick. Even when there's a solid run of shows, it always felt like one downturn away from another disastrously disorganized "new era" or whatever. At some point, I just threw in the towel. Watching old matches in a vacuum is fun though. (The Pluto app used to have a specific channel that ran old TNA matches 24-7 - I'm not sure if that's still there.)

But I still like to keep track of what's going on with TNA. It sounds solid now, but I had a friend (another lapsed viewer) who ordered the PPV tell me it was perfectly fine but nothing about it motivated him to keep watching. That's kind of how I felt when I dipped back in during the Christian-Omega stint.

8 hours ago, El-P said:

It sure is, it's been established years ago already. But it's more than that too. There are people who made their career (if not spent most of it) over there too, and who should not been dismissed as second-tier talent because of it. 

You'll probably think I'm being dismissive by saying this, but I'm not. If they're happy being "a big fish in a small pond" (and yes, that's exactly what they are), more power to them. They still get to practice their craft, express their art, and presumably make decent money doing it while having time for their family and other interests. In terms of quality of life, it's not a bad tradeoff. But if it were me, I'd want to eventually go to the "big leagues" - NJPW, WWE, etc. - like AJ Styles did. AJ's reputation rose when he moved on from TNA, bet on himself, and ended up on top in bigger promotions.

[El-P]

16 hours ago, C.S. said:

2. I was responding to the silly outrage that Moose would be putting over Nic Nemeth. I probably was too dismissive of Moose, so I'll own that, but should TNA not sign and push Nemeth? That's crazy to me. 

The actual irony of the thing is that I actually totally agree with you about the fact Nick Nemeth is a perfect signing for TNA, once they got rid of "one of the biggest signee we ever did" hype. That being said, thinking he's not gonna put Moose over is totally in contradiction with how they've been operating for years now. That being said, maybe Nemeth has the biggest profile of anyone else coming from WWE (although his world title stint was years ago, right, back when everybody and their mothers got a WWE title, including Jake Hager and shit), so that's a slight difference there. Still, if you look at how their booking works and has worked for years, the first thing that comes to mind is that Nemeth is putting over Moose. I would be surprised if Nemeth did not became TNA champ eventually if he's there for a while, and I don't see anything wrong with that either.

16 hours ago, C.S. said:

But I still like to keep track of what's going on with TNA. It sounds solid now, but I had a friend (another lapsed viewer) who ordered the PPV tell me it was perfectly fine but nothing about it motivated him to keep watching.

As a regular viewer since 2019, like I said this show was like "another good IMPACT years PPV show", but nothing that different or special either, so I can totally see why that show was not really an incentive. The best way to watch TNA to me at this point is binge watch two or three months at a time using their Youtube channel, that way you get several bigger shows at once, plus the shows are an easy watch. 

16 hours ago, C.S. said:

You'll probably think I'm being dismissive by saying this, but I'm not. If they're happy being "a big fish in a small pond" (and yes, that's exactly what they are), more power to them. They still get to practice their craft, express their art, and presumably make decent money doing it while having time for their family and other interests. In terms of quality of life, it's not a bad tradeoff. 

Yup. And not everyone wants to be in a huge corporate machine either. I for one would be a lot more happy in a smaller company with actual human rapports.  

 

16 hours ago, C.S. said:

AJ's reputation rose when he moved on from TNA, bet on himself, and ended up on top in bigger promotions.

AJ Styles did not really "bet on himself" (I fucking can't stand that new empty cliché saying everyone is using now BTW, it's even worse then "finishing the story" !). Dixie fucked up with the contract negociations. Those were the days. 

[C.S.]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:01 AM, El-P said:

AJ Styles did not really "bet on himself" (I fucking can't stand that new empty cliché saying everyone is using now BTW, it's even worse then "finishing the story" !). Dixie fucked up with the contract negociations. Those were the days. 

I'm quoting AJ himself. That's how he described it in a WWE Network interview with Stone Cold. Then again, he also thinks the earth is flat and gets taken aback whenever someone mentions his fans in "the gay community?!" so maybe you have a point. 

[NintendoLogic]

AJ bet on himself not so much by leaving TNA but by turning down WWE's lowball offer and increasing his market value by becoming a star in Japan. TNA didn't really have a choice but to let him go when he did. There was no way they could afford his salary given their financial situation at the time and taking a pay cut would have been beneath his dignity.

[Ricky Jackson]

Finally figured out how to edit the thread title lol

[Autistic Dragon]

37 minutes ago, Ricky Jackson said:

Finally figured out how to edit the thread title lol

May I ask how? Got a thread of my own with a title I'm less than thrilled with.

[Ricky Jackson]

On mobile, you just have to click on the 3 dots from the first post you made in the thread you want to change, click edit, and then you will be able to edit the thread title in addition to the post. Not sure why editing a thread title isn't an option under the moderation actions tab for a thread someone has created. I just happened to stumble on the solution 

[Autistic Dragon]

Thanks.

[El-P]

I'm sure glad I did not spoil myself, because I did not expect Will Ospreay to put over Josh Alexander. That really meant something for him, because he did not need to do this at all. Awesome match, of course.

[C.S.]

I had no idea Mahabali Shera was in TNA. I read spoilers for the tapings, and...

Spoiler

He lost all of his matches.

Why?!

He was very impressive in the Netflix OVW documentary "The Wrestlers" and oozed star power, so of course TNA books him to lose every match he's in.

 

[El-P]

He's been with TNA since 2014. Hell, 2011 considering Ring Ka King.

And he's never been any good. So yeah, he's a job guy, because at this point that's all he can be. I'm actually amazed he's still employed, really, he must be real good friends with someone. He's basically just as poor now as he was 10 years ago when he started as a regular. Barely improved at all.

[C.S.]

Thoughts on WWE's partnership with TNA vs. AEW's?

With AEW, only they - and not TNA - really benefited. Christian and Omega - AEW wrestlers - traded the TNA World Title. Tony Khan and Tony Schiavone played heel characters and buried TNA (I realize they were emulating Vince in Memphs, but still). I don't see how AEW did TNA any major favors.

With WWE, Mickie James was in the Royal Rumble and announced as TNA Knockouts Champion last year, ditto for Jordynne Grace this year, and Grace was arguably the STAR of the match.

It seems like AEW was insecure and gave TNA very little, whereas WWE is obviously very secure in their position and has no problem making TNA look good. It's a mutually beneficial partnership for both sides, and I hope there's more of it.

Ironically, Christian has been used as a crossover wrestler for TNA by both WWE (for a TNA Hall of Fame segment with Sting) and AEW (as the TNA World Champion) and of course had a lengthy TNA stint of his own. 

On 1/23/2024 at 10:28 PM, El-P said:

He's been with TNA since 2014. Hell, 2011 considering Ring Ka King.

And he's never been any good. So yeah, he's a job guy, because at this point that's all he can be. I'm actually amazed he's still employed, really, he must be real good friends with someone. He's basically just as poor now as he was 10 years ago when he started as a regular. Barely improved at all.

And yet, he came across as a massive, massive star on the OVW Netflix documentary "The Wrestlers" and someone worth rooting for. What is TNA missing? "Being good at the rasslin'" is such a small part of the overall picture.

Maybe he's just a big fish in a small pond type, and fair enough, but I feel more can be done with him. 

I can't even say WWE would use him better, because we've seen otherwise for anyone not named Jinder. WWE has one of the main characters of a Disney movie on their roster - "Million Dollar Arm" was based on Veer - and that has never once been mentioned. Even if "Million Dollar Arm" isn't exactly as big as "Fantasia" (or whatever) in the Disney universe, it was still seen and is known on a massively wider scale than WWE ever has been or ever will be. Ditto for Adam Copeland appearing on "Percy Jackson" for Disney+ the week Tony Khan idiotically decided to focus on Jinder instead, Sasha in "The Mandalorian" (WWE is a nothing Walmart bin DVD in comparison to "Star Wars"), etc.

Well, I went off on a tangent there about small-time rasslin' promoters being too fucking dumb and in the bubble to take advantage of huge crossovers that fall into their laps. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. 

[El-P]

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

Thoughts on WWE's partnership with TNA vs. AEW's ?

There is none to be talked about thus far, apart from TNA being on Endeavor's streaming service. Endeavor is not WWE. The fact that have a decent relationship doesn't mean they are partners, like TNA is with AAA of NJPW.

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

With AEW, only they - and not TNA - really benefited. Christian and Omega - AEW wrestlers - traded the TNA World Title. Tony Khan and Tony Schiavone played heel characters and buried TNA (I realize they were emulating Vince in Memphs, but still). I don't see how AEW did TNA any major favors.

....

They sent their World champion and biggest star at the time (during the most successful years before Punk's debut) to work their TV tapings and special shows. That gave TNA their biggest ratings and PPV buy in years. So yeah, it did good for TNA. Then  Christian Cage got the title, and things went back to normal (so, no, he did not make any difference at all). What did AEW got that add so much good to their own product ? The Good Brothers. Such winners indeed. So as a matter of fact the relationship helped TNA quite a bit while Omega was there. Those are numbers BTW, not opinions.

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

With WWE, Mickie James was in the Royal Rumble and announced as TNA Knockouts Champion last year, ditto for Jordynne Grace this year, and Grace was arguably the STAR of the match.

They did Mickie James good after she got thrown out like thrash. That was nice. And they did Jordynne good too, maybe as a gesture toward Naomi. Good. Now will they send Becky Lynch to work TNA tapings and a few special shows ? Probably not.  Scott D'Amore has obviously establish a good rapport with WWE, but unless TNA gets some significant talent to work their tapings and some actual plugs on WWE shows, nah.

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

And yet, he came across as a massive, massive star on the OVW Netflix documentary "The Wrestlers" and someone worth rooting for. What is TNA missing? "Being good at the rasslin'" is such a small part of the overall picture.

I've watch his entire TV career. He's not good at wrestling, he never cut a good promo, he never got over. So, TNA is missing nothing. A documentary is not a pro-wrestling show. 

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

Maybe he's just a big fish in a small pond type, and fair enough, but I feel more can be done with him. 

He's not a big fish in a small pond. He's a jobber in a small pond. 

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

Well, I went off on a tangent there about small-time rasslin' promoters being too fucking dumb and in the bubble to take advantage of huge crossovers that fall into their laps.

Calling a small-time (hey, here we go again with the patronizing and dismissive tone toward TNA, so there) rasslin' promoter "too fucking dumb" for not taking advantage of Mahabali fucking Sheera is amazingly ironic.

[NotJayTabb]

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

And yet, he came across as a massive, massive star on the OVW Netflix documentary "The Wrestlers" and someone worth rooting for. What is TNA missing? "Being good at the rasslin'" is such a small part of the overall picture.

Maybe he's just a big fish in a small pond type, and fair enough, but I feel more can be done with him. 

I can't even say WWE would use him better, because we've seen otherwise for anyone not named Jinder. 

Shera signed to WWE for a bit, but never made it past the NXT house show loop to the TV shows. I think he's just not a good enough wrestler for anything more.

[KawadaSmile]

WWE sending some of their NXT talent to TNA would be some good stuff. Could they do more, like sending their big guns? Yeah, but considering they have a busier schedule, it's way more unlikely than what AEW did by sending Omega there.

[C.S.]

9 hours ago, El-P said:

Calling a small-time (hey, here we go again with the patronizing and dismissive tone toward TNA, so there) rasslin' promoter "too fucking dumb" for not taking advantage of Mahabali fucking Sheera is amazingly ironic.

I was also talking about Vince and Tony, which you missed in your wanton lust to defend TNA no matter what. 

Seriously though, your other points are good ones, and a good defense of your favorite promotion. BUT was TNA's stock raised after AEW packed up and left? Did they get more viewers? Genuine question, since you know the numbers.

As for AEW getting The Good Brothers, well, you won't get any arguments from me that AEW didn't exactly benefit much (or at all) from that. However, I get the sense that Tony - or at least the EVPs - thought much more highly of that particular crossover than we did.

9 hours ago, El-P said:

A documentary is not a pro-wrestling show. 

Which I'd argue is one of the major, major problems with pro wrestling. (Note: I'm talking about WWE, AEW, etc. too). It's stuck in the past presentation-wise. If a documentary can make Shera a star, why can't a pro wrestling company apply some of the same principles and presentation to do the same? Forget about Shera for a second. You don't like him, "he's not any good," etc. But imagine it for someone you do like. I realize my point is a bit disjointed and probably requires further explanation (outside of this thread), but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. 

9 hours ago, NotJayTabb said:

Shera signed to WWE for a bit, but never made it past the NXT house show loop to the TV shows. I think he's just not a good enough wrestler for anything more.

Was that during the DeMott era? Because I'm personally inclined to give everyone released then a free pass or at least a second look. 

[El-P]

15 hours ago, C.S. said:

As for AEW getting The Good Brothers, well, you won't get any arguments from me that AEW didn't exactly benefit much (or at all) from that. However, I get the sense that Tony - or at least the EVPs - thought much more highly of that particular crossover than we did.

They had relationship dating back to the NJPW days. So yeah, blame the Young Bucks. Which you would do anyway. 

15 hours ago, C.S. said:

Seriously though, your other points are good ones, and a good defense of your favorite promotion. BUT was TNA's stock raised after AEW packed up and left? Did they get more viewers? Genuine question, since you know the numbers.

Numbers went back to normal after Omega was not around anymore, basically. So yeah, it was a short term boost, it did not sustain. There was quite a bit more interest again last year for Bound for Glory too, whether that was Trinity or the entire promotion getting a bit of traction.

15 hours ago, C.S. said:

Which I'd argue is one of the major, major problems with pro wrestling. (Note: I'm talking about WWE, AEW, etc. too). It's stuck in the past presentation-wise. If a documentary can make Shera a star, why can't a pro wrestling company apply some of the same principles and presentation to do the same? Forget about Shera for a second. You don't like him, "he's not any good," etc. But imagine it for someone you do like. I realize my point is a bit disjointed and probably requires further explanation (outside of this thread), but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. 

Actually I do totally agree with this. I loved Lucha Underground for this very reason, it was very different in term of presentation, although obviously it was not a documentary style show. Lot of people did not like the supernatural, comic-book aspect of it, but to me that was what made it so different. It was not a pro-wrestling promotion, it was a TV show based on pro-wrestling, basically. You could picture some other pro-wrestling show with different kind of approach and presentation (documentary, comics, whatever).

At one point IMPACT did kinda went into that direction during the pandemic, with the Wrestlers House (or something, don't remember the exact name). Actually, I really liked the pandemic days of pro-wrestling because it allowed it to experiment with different kind of format and new ideas. Not everything would work, but plenty gave it a different feel. I think the moment I kinda got detached from AEW as a promotion, is when I realized that, oh well, as great as it is/was/(is?) it's just another pro-wrestling promotion.

[C.S.]

19 hours ago, El-P said:

They had relationship dating back to the NJPW days. So yeah, blame the Young Bucks. Which you would do anyway. 

I assume you're under the false impression that I hate The Bucks (and Kenny?).

That's actually not true.

While neither of them wrestle my preferred "house style," if you we-ill, I can recognize and acknowledge that they put on damn good matches even with a style and characters that aren't my preference.

What I do blame The Bucks and Kenny for is not putting business ahead of their own issues. Is CM Punk blameless? Of course not, and I'd never say he was. He deserves tons of blame. But shit happened, and they could've all made a boatload of money after - not only for themselves but also for the company. The Elite vs. CM Punk and FTR was the hottest possible match they could've had, not to mention another year or two of various combinations. If that was never going to happen, Punk should have been fired right after the scrum. He wasn't - which I realize was never the Bucks/Kenny's call - but at that point, they should have been made to do business or gotten fired themselves (or at least paid to stay at home if that was the legally preferable option). Instead, The Bucks and Kenny put themselves ahead of AEW. The dwindling crowds prove it. They aren't entirely to blame, obviously. AEW losing its three biggest stars - Cody, Punk, and Jade - also hurt tremendously. 

But this is a TNA thread, so I'll stop here.

19 hours ago, El-P said:

Actually I do totally agree with this. I loved Lucha Underground for this very reason, it was very different in term of presentation, although obviously it was not a documentary style show. Lot of people did not like the supernatural, comic-book aspect of it, but to me that was what made it so different. It was not a pro-wrestling promotion, it was a TV show based on pro-wrestling, basically. You could picture some other pro-wrestling show with different kind of approach and presentation (documentary, comics, whatever).

At one point IMPACT did kinda went into that direction during the pandemic, with the Wrestlers House (or something, don't remember the exact name). Actually, I really liked the pandemic days of pro-wrestling because it allowed it to experiment with different kind of format and new ideas. Not everything would work, but plenty gave it a different feel. I think the moment I kinda got detached from AEW as a promotion, is when I realized that, oh well, as great as it is/was/(is?) it's just another pro-wrestling promotion.

As weird as it is to say because the pandemic was completely awful and traumatic in those early days, I loved all of the creative workarounds all of the wrestling promotions were trying. Not everything worked, but damn it, at least we were seeing concepts that were fresh and outside the box. Even dogshit like Raw Underground was cool - for a minute anyway - because it was different. I'd almost rather see a bunch of near-misses like that instead of "just pro wrestling" because I'd finally be seeing something new.

[TheDuke]

My PVR didn't record Impact again this week. I realized afterwards they changed the name of the program in the schedule again, this time from TNA Wrestling to TNA iMPACT. 

[C.S.]

D'Amore is out. Some random useless corporate suit is in.

https://tnawrestling.com/2024/02/07/anthony-cicione-named-president-of-tna-wrestling/