Matches From 2007

[anarchistxx]

Benoit would have looked out of place making outlandish gestures and telling the crowd to shut up though. It isn't what he's about.

 

And they did cheat in the ways that they prevented the tag being made.

[Loss]

Benoit would have looked out of place making outlandish gestures and telling the crowd to shut up though. It isn't what he's about.

I know. It's a large part of the reason he's always been more over as a babyface.

[anarchistxx]

Probably true as well. We'll have to agree to disagree

[Tim Cooke]

I've seen plenty of strong Benoit heel work where he blows snot on to his opponent, raises his hands in the air to get boo's, and is generally more of a prick to his opponent.

 

But to follow up on what Loss said, WWE Heel Benoit is probably the least favorite of the "Benoit's". From the 1/31 Raw debut through March 2001, Benoit didn't come across as killer (and granted, some of that has to do with his move set being cut off as well as Ross screaming about the 'Wolverine'-what is more intense, a wolverine or a crippler?).

 

But as a face, he also doesn't control the match, which can hurt if he is in with a poor opponent.

 

Jericho is another guy in the WWE who was pathetic as a babyface in 2000-2001 (he was over and the fake title win was pretty amazing but I really found him bland, even in the series against Benoit) so maybe it is a WCW guys going to WWE problem.

[Resident Evil]

I'm just not really interested in American tag matches where the heels don't cheat or attempt to cheat at some point in the match.

 

That's cool. Myself, sometimes I'm in the mood for that and sometimes I'm just sick of it especially if it happens too often (as it loses realism). Having someone be face or heel through pure construction of a match is cool too and a refreshing change of pace.

[jdw]

Benoit would have looked out of place making outlandish gestures and telling the crowd to shut up though. It isn't what he's about.

You don't really need to do that stuff to get across being a heel. Bobby Eaton in the MX was a heel. He had even less "charisma" than Benoit in the ring. But he also knew how to work heel in the context of tag team wrestling.

 

 

John

[Dylan Waco]

The BookerDust/Blondes match seemed really standard to me. They did a nice job, but it wasn't memorable at all.

 

In comparison, the SD tag was really memorable, as WP said excellent temaowkr and flow, they worked the FIP segments nicely and there was a breathless finish with loads of awesome spots and nearfalls.

 

The Raw tag was a solid, traditional tag. The SD one was an exciting, memorable tag.

 

I hardly think some of the Haas/Holly tags compare. I've seen them, and they're decent efforts, but they aren't anything to remember.

 

And I love a lot of the SD6 stuff, which now has become underrated in some circles, with people claiming it's just a bunch of spots. There's a lot of good stuff in there, and I remember at the time, Raw was abysmal.

 

 

BookDust v. The Blondes was a "standard" match in the sense that the people involved weren't going out of their way to put on a classic, or fill the match with state of the art spots or lots of "go-go-go" segments. To me one of the things that becomes more obvious to me the more I watch wrestling is that lots of times matches that are less ambitious and willing to stick to basic formula end up being much better matches than the ones that have alot of "cool shit", but a strange formula and/or a lack of selling and pacing. I'm not saying the SD tag from the show neccesarily falls into that category, though I do remember thinking parts of it were kind of sloppy, and that the selling was really annoying. I actuallyjust bought the No Mercy DVD and was planning on watching the two matches back to back this week. I may try to do so tonight.

 

I also can't help but notice that you keep bringing up that certain matches are matches to remember. That's sort of what I was getting at with the dream match thing. Steiners v. Luger and Sting was a match to remember. All larger than life faces, some of the most over guys in the world, offensive juggernauts, et. It's a fun match, recently watched it and didn't think it was anything all that great. But it's remembered by everyone and it "sticks out". On the other hand there are tons of tag matches from that period that were better matches that aren't as well remembered.

 

Being "memorable" usually has more to do with how much "cool shit" is going on, or a storyline leading into a match, or whether or not the match was pimped by certain people, or the personalities involved. A match being more memorable than another match is pretty much meaningless when trying to discern what is a better match.

 

Haas and Holly v. MNM were underrated matches. Focused tag matches, with good pacing, fun spots, good FIP segments, some strong "playing to the crowd" schtick, and some really good nearfalls. But they were basic, didn't take place on a ppv, weren't neccesarily filled with "cool shit", weren't pimped by Meltzer and didn't feature some of the IWC's favorite sons. So they aren't all that memorable.

[anarchistxx]

I've seen plenty of strong Benoit heel work where he blows snot on to his opponent, raises his hands in the air to get boo's, and is generally more of a prick to his opponent

Yeah, true, but I think he blew snot before the headbutt in the NM tag? Though my memory could be suspect.

 

WWE Heel Benoit is probably the least favorite of the "Benoit's".

I actually love WWE heel Benoit. Would be better if he could dip into his huge offensive range, but he's had some great, great matches as a heel, with guys like Rock, HHH and Jericho.

 

Benoit didn't come across as killer

Maybe not a killer, but they did do a good job of getting him over as the 'best technical wrestler in the world'.

 

ericho is another guy in the WWE who was pathetic as a babyface in 2000-2001

Pathetic seems a bit strong; he was one of the most over guys on the roster! I think his in ring stuff was a little bland but his character as a whole was very entertaining.

 

You don't really need to do that stuff to get across being a heel. Bobby Eaton in the MX was a heel. He had even less "charisma" than Benoit in the ring. But he also knew how to work heel in the context of tag team wrestling.

A good point, but don't forget Benoit isn't a tag team specialist, and Angle certainly isn't, so you can't expect them to have a brilliant grasp of tag dynamics.

 

To me one of the things that becomes more obvious to me the more I watch wrestling is that lots of times matches that are less ambitious and willing to stick to basic formula end up being much better matches than the ones that have alot of "cool shit",

I agree totally. Rock v Rikishi doesn't contain a whole lot, but it's a fantastic match. On the other hand, the big DG 6-Man had loads of 'cool shit', but I was left underwhelmed.

 

As for the No Mercy tag, I thought they got the basics at first and then went onto all the cool stuff. The earlier tag got the basics but didn't have much cool stuff.

 

a lack of selling and pacing.

I thought the selling and pacing was a major plus in the NM tag.

 

That's sort of what I was getting at with the dream match thing.

I don't see that NM tag as a dream match at all though. I see it as 4 good workers in their primes, all with a grudge coming in, putting on a great match and making the belts look important.

 

I haven't actually seen the afromentioned Steiners v Luger/Sting tag.

 

A match being more memorable than another match is pretty much meaningless when trying to discern what is a better match.

I agree, and if you've seen my reviews you'd see that I don't automatically rate memorable matches higher. I just felt this was memorable because it really was great, and the Raw tag was unmemorable because it really was merely 'decent'.

 

Haas and Holly v. MNM were underrated matches.

Agrees. But they don't beat NM, not by a long way.

 

But they were basic, didn't take place on a ppv, weren't neccesarily filled with "cool shit", weren't pimped by Meltzer and didn't feature some of the IWC's favorite sons. So they aren't all that memorable.

The thing was though, if they were 'memorable', they would have been pimped by Meltzer, and not necessarily filled with 'cool shit', but definately filled with something that sets them apart from the everyday tag match.

[Phil Schneider]

Downloaded the tag, I am pretty excited for it. BTW Tim remind me to send you a copy of Hall Brothers v. Masked Superstar 2/Mike Booth from NWA-VA end of last year. That is some Southern tag goodness right there.

[Dylan Waco]

The tag is actually up on youtube. Hell practically the whole Rumble card is.

[anarchistxx]

I tried to watch it on YT but the quality is awful.

 

Think I'll just get my guy to copy it for me, I want to see Umanga/Cena as well.

[kjh]

Maybe not a killer, but they did do a good job of getting him over as the 'best technical wrestler in the world'.

Erm, how? I know WWE repeated that ad nauseum in 2000, but, if anything, Benoit ditched most of the matwork he used to do unless he was in with someone who could work that style and even then his matwork tended to be unfocussed and ultimately meaningless.

[anarchistxx]

Yeah, but you have to remember, most WWF matches back then had hundreds of run ins and the rest.

 

A technical match was one where they stayed in the ring and used wrestling moves, rather than trash can lids, not one where they busted out state of the art matwork.

 

What I'm saying is, they got him over as a great wrestler.

 

Look at Benoit/HHH, Benoit was clearly portrayed as the best wrestler of the two, and HHH needed help from Steph to get the wib.

[Loss]

Benoit does deserve credit for bringing out the best in almost everyone around him and ultimately improving the style, though. He didn't change it, but he did improve it, which is obvious if you compare the quality of 1999 main events to the quality of 2000-2001 main events. Austin, Rock and HHH all seemed more motivated than usual to put on a good match when working opposite Benoit, and that enthusiasm, or whatever you want to call it, carried over to other matches on the show. I seem to recall a sudden jump in the amount of heat the bell-to-bell action was getting around the time Benoit, Jericho, et al jumped to the WWF. Even in '99, when the company was red hot, the crowd was dead outside of the entrances and the post-match crap. I wouldn't credit that entirely to Benoit, but I do think he played a part in it.

 

Funny that HHH tried burying Benoit almost immediately when he came into the company by trying to label him as a guy who was all hype and was capable of having good matches, but only if he was being carried. That stopped very quickly, within Benoit's first week in the company in fact. HHH's Smackdown match with Benoit (and also Rikishi around this time) are really two of his best matches from his peak year that most people have forgotten about.

 

Regarding HHH/Benoit, I really hated that match. HHH outwrestles Benoit, who is supposed to be the better wrestler, by taking him to the mat and working on his knee, which Benoit completely no-sells, and then can only get offense by brawling. The Austin match on RAW (11/20 I think) sort of followed the same pattern, but Austin sold more for Benoit and was also more capable of mixing things up. The match was okay after that, but that really set a bad tone for the rest of the match. I tend to think No Mercy is the annual PPV where Benoit gets to have an okay match that gets MOTY hype it doesn't deserve.

[anarchistxx]

I really liked the No Mercy match, I think No Mercy must be the PPV we disagree on Benoit. It was something differet at the time, had an interesting dynamic with HHH as the face, and they used stuff like the Dragon Suplex and Death Valley Driver that weren't common place. It has its flaws, but I liked it. Then again, it was surrounded by crap.

 

And the WCW guys certainly did improve the match quality in WWF when they came in.

 

I still haven't seen that HHH/Rikishi match, I might seek it out, although there's an awesome IC Title Benoit/Rikishi match on heat that goes about 5 minutes.

[goodhelmet]

Wow, I am glad Tim liked the Rumble tag as much as he did. During the Rumble, I was calling Loss and describing the matches to him after they happened. I remember telling him that the formula used was classic FIP and that MNM were great in attacking the weakness of both Hardys. I want to rewatch the Rumble on tape, but live, I walked out thinking that the Hardys-MNM match was the best match of the show while Cena-Umaga was the best spectacle.

[anarchistxx]

Finally got round to watching the Rumble...

 

WWE Royal Rumble 2007

 

Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy v Joey Mercury/Jonny Nitro

 

MNM may have the best look of any tag team, ever. They really look the part here, and whatever anyone says, that's half the battle. The Hardyz look considerably bigger than seven years ago, or maybe it's just because they've ditched the lycra. Either way, they're as over as a pizza at a weight-watchers convention, and with two great heels like Mercury and Nitro to work against, you knew this would be good. MNM are a team that, while they aren't ever going to have a classic, can probably work a good match with just about anyone. They prove that here; though offensively limited at times, they make up for it with awesome team work, and they have a good feel for how to work a tag match.

 

The thing that sets this match apart, is that it’s two teams battling it out, not a couple of thrown together wrestlers who creative has ‘nothing for’. They work as a unit, they have a ton of double team moves, and in true southern style, do some fantastic work towards the hot tag. Jeff Hardy puts in an excellent performance here, and looks every bit like the future world champion he was predicted to be a few years back. MNM bring the solid heel work, Matt is good at keeping the crowd involved and uses his considerable experience to hold it all together. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t anything amazing, but it’s a step above most WWE tag matches, and shows how you can work a very good match with two established teams. ***1/4

 

ECW World Heavyweight Championship: Bobby Lashley© v Test

 

As a WWE mid-card match, this was poor. As an ECW title match, it was terrible. Problem is, you have two crap WWE style wrestlers fighting over a supposed 'extreme' championship. Nobody buys into any of it. It doesn't help that Lashley has the charisma of a fucking librarian, and the only time Test has ever been over was eight years ago. I tried to look for something decent in this match; but to be honest, you’d have an easier time trying to find a shag in a nunnery. And unlike a nun, it fucking sucked. *

 

World Heavyweight Championship: Batista© v Ken Kennedy

 

I get the feeling that is the crowd was into this more, it would have got a lot more love. For me personally, it was a real pleasant surprise. I still don't buy Kennedy as a future world champion, but here, he knows what Batista can do and works around it really well. The leg work now gives Batista an excuse for his immobility, and since it's pretty simple stuff, there's a lot less chance of sick not picking up yet another injury. To Batista's credit, he does a nice job of selling the leg injury, and indeed it's one of the better WWE matches I've seen with a lot of body part work. Kennedy proves he can carry the offence for a match, bringing more than enough to the table, and Batista holds his end up as well. Very nice, but could have done with another few minutes. ***

 

WWE Championship: Last Man Standing: John Cena© v Umanga

 

Can Cena overcome the odds? Why have all Samoans got amazingly hard heads? What has Umanga done to deserve his push, aside from being fat and Samoan? For the first ten minutes, I started to wonder what the hype was about, since it merely looked like your usual, pedestrian action to me. Once Cena wore the crimson mask though, it was pretty swank. They kept a nice intensity about the match, and while they did use a load of shortcuts, they never lost sight of the real point, which was the underdog Cena against the monster Umanga. I don’t know why people seem to be crediting the quality to Umanga though, as I thought Cena was clearly the better worker here, with his fiery comebacks and sympathy selling really making the match. Quite amusing people still think it’s ‘cool’ to chant their Cena Sucks and the like. Yeah, you’re hard. It isn’t as good as people say, but once again I was pleasantly surprised.. ***1/4

 

30 Man Royal Rumble Match

 

What a dull way to end the card. This was seriously boring as fuck; usually the incorporate a few side stories to maintain interest. Here, the solitary side story was the beginning of a Booker-T/Kane feud. That'll put a lot of butts in seats...Undertaker and Michaels did their best to dramatise it up towards the end, and it worked to a degree, but the commentary made you cringe. Apparently, Taker and Michaels are now two guys in their 'prime', and are also 'probably the two biggest stars in the history of WWE'. If you say so lads. Very average rumble, wouldn't want to sit through it again. *3/4

 

Overall this was a good show. Three matches above *** would usually qualify something as a must see, but since the Rumble took up the bulk of the time and was so dire, this wasn't quite the case here. Still, I'd recommend it.

[JHawk]

While for the most part I'd agree with your opinion of the Rumble itself, anarchist, I thought the Taker-HBK finish was one of the better finishes in Rumble history. Lots of teases and false eliminations that had me hoping for more. Overall though, you're right, not one I'd want to revisit.

[anarchistxx]

Yeah, I actually liked the ending, but the commentary for it was terrible.

 

It was nice and dramatic though.

[Tim Evans]

I haven't seen the tag match but I did see the Rumble match. I loved it. Probably the best rumble since 02 for me. Just a lot of emotion and the crowd was super hot for it.

 

I also watched Hardyz/Benoit vs MNM/MVP from No way Out. Good opening match. The Hardyz/MNM feud is so good right now. And I really like MVP right now.

 

But my match of the year so far this year is Batista/Taker vs Cena/HBK from No way Out. That match was just so damn fun. Cena brought his A game and did some moves I didn't think he could do. Plus, Batista held his own.

 

Have you guys seen the WGTT vs Kidman/Rey feud from 02/03? I liked that feud more than WGTT/Guerreros and Tajiri.

[anarchistxx]

Yeah, the Kidman/Rey v WGTT match at Vengeance 03 is fantastic, and definately on the same level if not better than the Eddie/Takiri v WGTT matches.

 

I wasn't too keen on the SD rematch though, so the feud on a whole isn't really as good as the Eddie/Tajiri one, which had 3 really great matches.

 

I actually have the NWO main event on my PC, I might have to check it out.

 

The Rumble seems to have split opinion, so I don't think therte's many points to argue on it, just comes down to personal choice.

[Tim Evans]

I can see why some people might not like the rumble. But you are right, No reason to complain.

 

I think I have two of the WGTT/Eddie Tajiri matches on tape. They had a ladder match which I don't have and two smackdown matches. Correct? I made a WGTT/Team angle comp so that's where the matches are. Hope I still have the tape.

[anarchistxx]

No, they actually have 4 matches if you count in the JD Laddert match, which was surprisingly the weakest of the bunch.

 

They had 3 matches on Smackdown...

 

May 22, 2003

May 29, 2003

July 3, 2003

 

All great matches, though the 07/03 match is the best, and might be my top WWE match of that year.

[Loss]

Adam Pearce v Nelson Creed - NWA Pro in Las Vegas, unsure of date

 

I watched this on YouTube and was pleasantly surprised. I don't know if I'd go as far as calling this a great match, but it's a great schtick performance from Pearce and it's a really fun throwback to a simpler time. I understand that wrestling has changed, but I wish you saw more of this sort of thing ("He pulled my hair", stalling for heat, hiding foreign objects in trunks, etc) in ROH, TNA and even WWE than we see. Pearce was a breath of fresh air here, as he was going all out with the classic US heel style and Creed was good enough to keep up and play off of it. Even Creed's dorky pre-match promo had a certain Ron Garvin-esque vibe going for it that just added to the whole nostalgia feel of this. If this is the style that NWA Pro is going for, this is an indy I can probably get into and really follow and enjoy. It's a shame I couldn't find any DVDs for sale on their website.

 

The finish bugged the hell out of me. It certainly fit the nostalgia vibe, but one of the good things about modern wrestling is that there are typically more decisive finishes (even if they sometimes lose their impact in how their built up and followed up on), and the end of this was just a reminder of why Crockett died. Also, as a title match, this feels more like a midcard title match than a main event -- very dumbed down Larry Zbyszko and Barry Windham fighting over the Western States Heritage title-ish, and not just because the title at stake is the NWA Heritage Title. It's because it's all about schtick and the wrestling is more there to enhance the gaga, rather than the other way around. Considering that I haven't seen really any of either guy prior to this, that may or may not be the best route, I'm not sure.

 

What's ultimately most notable about this match isn't what it does wrong, but more what it does right. The good in this match is the type of good you rarely, if ever, see among even top-level workers today. Kurt Angle would even probably learn something from watching this match. In a perfect world, this old style would still be the template most wrestlers followed, although you do wish there was *something* here other than borrowed formula to make the match more unique.

 

The match can be watched through the link below. I think it's very much worth watching and talking about.

 

[Loss]

Matt Hardy v Joey Mercury on Smackdown was really good. I enjoy these battles between the lost members of the high-profile tag teams, as they are both really the workhorses of their respective teams and have both looked really good lately. Mercury had some really nice arm work here, and Matt Hardy was extremely over. The upper midcard with these guys, Jeff Hardy, Booker T, Edge, etc, means more than it has since the boom period, as there are more guys who aren't main eventers who are over than there have been in years. Good match, and how the hell have they lucked into this hot streak lately?