rovert Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said: Why should we care if Lars Sullivan is a bigot? It's not like he's a politician with the ability to shape policy or a business executive with power over personnel decisions. He's just a wrestler. And the smart move is to assume that all wrestlers are moral reprobates until proven otherwise. Yep. This isn't an attack on posters here. It is more of a "this is the hobby we chose" thing. Most wrestlers lionized here were bigots and are certainly bigots by 2018 standards. Personally, I've never expected people in combat sports to be upstanding people. Pro Wrestling is built to be a place for outsiders and flawed people. Fake fighting in your underpants for the adulation for a crowd etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 It's not a bad thing to expect people to be better, especially once they get into positions of public exposure where they could possibly affect/inspire others. Just because wrestling has historically been full of trash people with trash opinions doesn't mean the new generation of trash people can just be handwaved away like "Oh, wrestling! You racist scamp!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, sek69 said: It's not a bad thing to expect people to be better, especially once they get into positions of public exposure where they could possibly affect/inspire others. Just because wrestling has historically been full of trash people with trash opinions doesn't mean the new generation of trash people can just be handwaved away like "Oh, wrestling! You racist scamp!" Current day WWE signed THAT deal with Saudi and is hiding/mitigating "old guard" executives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Well. I'm always willing to give anyone a break on shit if "it was a joke". But when there's nothing remotely resembling a joke involved with it, then not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 11 hours ago, ragemaster said: Just not sure I like a world when if you do or say something stupid that's it, your marked for life. This. It's ridiculous. But people love pointing fingers, it's a way to feel better about themselves. Really now, I don't care one way or another, but a bunch of posts on an internet board 10 years ago ? How does that even compare to the WWE doing actual propaganda for the criminal Saudi regime ? But we should expect those morally immaculate WWE executives to take actions against this guy, so people can comfortably mark out to NXT on the Network, as they give 9,99$ every month to that great company who does propaganda for the Saudi regime (and financed Trump's campaign, and uses the name of a relentless homophobe to to PR charity work every year etc etc etc ....). Major disconnect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Some terrible takes here, let’s not start playing the different levels of bad game. WWE doing business with saudis is bad, as is a rookie roidhead being racist, as is A.J. Styles being an islamophobic homophobic piece of shit, as is Michael Hayes being a racist. They’re all bad and bigotry should always be called out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 One individual saying stupid shit on a message board 10 years ago (for lack of other evidence presented of him saying racist shit in 2018 thus far) = Public traded corporation signing multimillion dollars contract to do propaganda work for a criminal regime (in 2018). Ok. No difference level of bad game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Basically if A is bad and B is godawful, you can't ask A to be fired by/from B for moral reasons, especially if in the end it's because it makes you feel better about watching B's product without bad element A in it, despite B being much worse than A in the grand scheme of things. (not singling out anyone on the board BTW, just making a point about yet another fake outrage "putaclic", as we say in French, article) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Judge each situation on its own lack of merits rather than relative to each other to try and quantify (and it seems excuse). “But Saudi....” doesn’t mean a racist cunt isn’t a racist cunt and 10 years ago doesn’t mean shit. Lars whoever spews vile racist shit....but Saudi AJ thinks Muslim invaders are coming for us and hates gays....but Saudi Michael Hayes calls people niggers...but Saudi Psycho shoots up synagogue....but Hiroshima etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Not when all the situations are interconnected. We're talking about WWE employees. Plus it's really not a matter of excusing anything, on the contrary. It's a matter of major hypocrisy from the #outrage crowd. Acting outraged at isolated offensive attitude/actions by WWE employee while still supporting the company shows a total disconnect with reality and total hypocrisy. 31 minutes ago, Herodes said: Psycho shoots up synagogue....but Hiroshima Godawful, embarrassing analogy that has nothing to do with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 43 minutes ago, Herodes said: 10 years ago doesn’t mean shit. How do you know ? You know the guy today ? Maybe he's still a racist fuck, in which case, fuck him. Maybe he has changed for the better. I have no idea (nor do I care). But acting outrage and passing judgement because of some shit on a message board 10 years ago and acting all higher than thou because of it, yeah, it's ridiculous. One exemple. The other day I was searching for this blogger I used to read a few years ago. She's an handicapped girl who was writing tons of interesting stuff. Very pro-LGBT activist, tons of insightful thing on the status of handicapped people etc... Well, I have no idea how it happened, but she apparently has turned into a nationalist alt-right activist now. Depressing. So, what is the real her ? If you take stuff from her old blog from 5 years ago, she seemed quite the super good person. Is this still valid now because you can trace it on the Internet ? Does the fact she has done a 180° means anything or is the real her still the one from 2013 ? Well, the answer is obvious (and sad). But maybe you think that only works one way. Which is a pretty depressing conception of things in which you can only go from good to bad, and not the other way around. Anyway, I'm done ranting. This is not about Lars Sullivan, whom for all I know might totally be a complete racist dickhead still (again, fuck him if that's the case), but the whole "hey, look at this stuff from 11 years ago, #OUTRAGE !!!!" is just dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Very few people have watched more WWE than you, no point trying to play moral consistency here. “But Saudi” may be your #outrage but that shouldn’t stop bigotry being called out regardless of its scale. But even if it was 10 years ago, I don’t ever give anyone who had it in them to spew racist shit the benefit of the doubt, nor will I try to frame it in some kind of wider and tedious “hypocrisy” context other than racist cunt said racist things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Herodes said: Very few people have watched more WWE than you, no point trying to play moral consistency here. The bolded part is pretty fucking hilarious and shows how ignorant you are about me (and why wouldn't you ? You don't know me, you just assume and troll). As far as moral consistency, well, I have stopped watching (the few stuff I was watching to begin with) altogether because of the Saudi deal at this point, so yeah, I'm more consistent than most I'm sorry to say. 9 minutes ago, Herodes said: “But Saudi” may be your #outrage No. I'm not into hashtags. I'm into consistency with what I find unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 That’s great you are so morally consistent that you continued watching after all the deaths, sex scandals, racism, Warrior canonization, Snuka cover up etc etc #butsaudi happened to be your limit. who knew calling out racism would get you so #triggered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, Herodes said: That’s great you are so morally consistent that you continued watching after all the deaths, sex scandals, racism, Warrior canonization, Snuka cover up etc etc #butsaudi happened to be your limit. You're a troll, that's nothing new, but since it's a boring Sunday, here we go I stopped watching WWF consistently in the Summer of 99. By then, I wasn't aware of any of those things yet, I think I learned most of them in the infamous DVDVR Sleaze Thread, on the green board. Never subscribed to the Observer (well, I did not know it even existed before I got online anyway). Last time I ever spent a dime on WWF was in 1999. From there, I watched a few PPV from 2000 and 2001 (Rumble, Mania, SummerSlam I believe). Then, blank for many, many years. Watched a bunch of contemporary (pimped stuff like Eddie vs Lesnar and such, at that time) matches for the Smarkchoice GOAT poll in 2006. I believe I've watched a bunch of PPV here and there from the mid-00's, but I was pretty removed already when the Benoit stuff happened (I have seen most of Manias from this period way after the fact). I slowly got more intrigued I believe around 2012/2013 I think, although I would only watch a few PPV there and there, around the time Bryan got over. In 2016 I began watching more PPV's because I could watch them with French commentary on my TV, but I was never a fan of the style at all, that's well-documented. I was mostly supportive of the girls in the last two/years and was enjoying the threads on the board more than the PPV's. Apart from a few nostalgia RAW shows and some post-Mania edition in the mid-2010s, I don't think I have watched a complete TV show since 1999 (and really, I haven't watched an actual TV show in years apart from when a match was really pimped). During this time, I always was pretty disgusted and was vocal about the Warrior/Snuka canonization and the various scandals (like hazing bullshit and such), and I always designated WWE as a crummy company. And yes, the Saudi deal was the last straw. So, you don't know jack shit and your piss-poor excuse for an argument is irrelevant. 22 minutes ago, Herodes said: who knew calling out racism would get you so #triggered? Again, very poor trolling, but why should we expect more from you at this point ? (BTW, using an alt-right denomination is a pretty failed attempt at irony here). Then again, you've been nothing but a troll on this board, so there goes my time being wasted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 It’s easy to dismiss someone as a troll when you get called out, but quite honestly you’re a complete bore. Please don’t waste your precious time any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 I don't like when people in the 18-21 year old demographic get a pass because "oh, they're just young." That's no excuse. You're old enough to know right from wrong. Social media may be a new(er) thing but people still know what they're saying & putting out there. Dude did dumb shit & should face the consequences of said dumb shit. That's how it works. At 18 years of age you can vote in elections & serve in the armed forces. You're damn sure old enough to know that posting slurs on the internet is not a good decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragemaster Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 I'm 42 and still say and do dumb Shit all the time, but I do stay away from racist jokes as I find them deplorable. My humour on a night out with friends would probably offend a lot of people on here. But I'm sensible not to post it online, as if I do offend a friend or misjudge the tone of a joke I can apologize in the moment. We can then move on with our life's, as I'm not trying to offend them just make them laugh. 10 years ago nobody knew how the world was shaping or changing, just look at James Gunn. Now we judge everyone and are looking to end carers because we get offended by anything and everything. Lots of people got caught out not knowing that what they put out there was forever and not just for that week/month. (not saying its right to put it out there) I'm not the same person from 5 years ago, my views change all the time. If I look back at some of my own posts on here, it doesn't mean I still hold those views from even a month ago. People are complex and there is no black and white, we live in a world of grey. One day you might give to the homeless because you can emphasize with their plight. The next day your like, fuck you, you lazy fucker get a job I work hard for my money. In fact I put money on it that everyone one on this board has either said something derogatory about a women/mans looks, fat shaming, immigrants taking our jobs, homophobic and so on. Probably also said something much more hurtful to an ex-partner/ family member than what Lars wrote online. I'm not excusing what he wrote, but this isn't on the level of Hogan, AJ, or Hayes . If newer stuff surfaces I join in with the pitchforks, but until then I don't really see this as major issue or news story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 What consequences should he face? Should he be fired for having shitty opinions hardly anybody would be aware of if someone hadn't taken the time to scour his posting history? Or does he just need to be "called out"? If the New Day or whatever want to do something like that, then fine. But what purpose does "calling out" a complete stranger serve beyond virtue signaling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 5 hours ago, El-P said: Basically if A is bad and B is godawful, you can't ask A to be fired by/from B for moral reasons, especially if in the end it's because it makes you feel better about watching B's product without bad element A in it, despite B being much worse than A in the grand scheme of things. (not singling out anyone on the board BTW, just making a point about yet another fake outrage "putaclic", as we say in French, article) Certainly didn't expect the expression "pute à clics" to be used on this board but very à propos, as we also say in French :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, SirEdger said: Certainly didn't expect the expression "pute à clics" to be used on this board but very à propos, as we also say in French La Francophonie en force ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 The (significantly less vulgar) English term is "clickbait." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Anglo-saxons invented political correctness. :p (for those who wonder, "putaclic", or "pute à clics" as our friend from the Province de Quebec so eloquently wrote, literally means '"click whore", and is used all the time in France) Edited November 25, 2018 by El-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Wow, this thread got hard to read. For the record the Lars stuff wasn't just 10 years ago it runs between 10 years and a few months before he signed NXT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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