Grilling JR

[flyonthewall2983]

[Afro Steel]

I'm intrigued since Conrad won't be able to lean on dick jokes and "What might it sound like if..." prompts.

But hopefully they tackle some stuff besides the Attitude Era, since the Prichard podcast has beaten that horse to a pulp.

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Afro Steel said:

I'm intrigued since Conrad won't be able to lean on dick jokes and "What might it sound like if..." prompts.

But hopefully they tackle some stuff besides the Attitude Era, since the Prichard podcast has beaten that horse to a pulp.

Ross loves to do stupid voices.

[El-P]

The question is, will JR shit on Meltz too. 

[SomethingSavage]

 Per article on SEScoops:

"All of my shows sort of double down on nostalgia… So we’re going to get in our wayback machine and talk a little UWF, a little Mid South, a little Crockett, a little WCW, and then all the years with the WWF,” says Thompson.

That is not to say that listeners should expect a retread of topics already covered on Thompson’s other shows.

Rather, says Thompson, JR’s unique wrestling journey will provide for a wealth of new ground to cover.

“It’s sort of the Something To Wrestle format, but nobody’s traveled the road that [JR] did,” Thompson says.

[flyonthewall2983]

14 hours ago, El-P said:

The question is, will JR shit on Meltz too. 

What I'm interested in is that this time around Conrad won't just have the sheets to depend on, but also the testimonies of Prichard, Bischoff, and Schiovane on all of those shows now. At least concerning his time he was also in the same employ as those guys anyway. 

I don't listen to Jim's show now very much but I did listen to the latest episode to hear his thoughts on WM weekend, and get a better sense of what the chemistry is going to be like between him and Conrad. I don't see it getting as morning shock-jock crazy as it gets with Bruce and the other guys sometimes. It's not to say he doesn't have a sense of humor, but I don't think it'll be as played to the hilt because like Conrad said nobody has traveled the road Ross has, and hopefully there won't be too many detours. I'm looking forward to this show very much.

[flyonthewall2983]

First show drops this week

[SomethingSavage]

Appreciate the heads up. I checked for it last week and saw it was just more filler with the Ross Report.

This topic seems like an appropriate starting point. I'll give it a listen.

[flyonthewall2983]

First show came out today. Jim's verbatim response to something he felt Dave Meltzer reported erroneously: "no that did not happen".

Great episode. He goes deep on what happened in the transition he took from leaving WCW and going to the WWF. It gets surprisingly personal, and he provides an amazing perspective on all that was happening around him. 

 

[Pterois]

If I understood properly, he said he was smoking weed with Heenan in 1993. Did I understand properly ? Anyway, I don't picture JR smoking weed.

[PeteF3]

Bill Watts was (and still is?) a big-time stoner, so it's not as much of a stretch as you might think.

[El-P]

8 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

First show came out today. Jim's verbatim response to something he felt Dave Meltzer reported erroneously: "no that did not happen".

I got a kick at this being the first thing you'd report about the show. Well, at least it means we're not gonna have to deal with another "fuck Meltzer" gimmick.

[The Thread Killer]

I checked out the first show and thought it was pretty good.  There were some annoying technical issues which Conrad of all people should be past by this point - inconsistent volume and the sound of microphones constantly bumping into people's faces, etc. 

Personality wise, I for one have no issue with "grumpy old man" JR.  It's who he is. I'd take that over him trying to pretend he's somebody he isn't. He was also refreshingly candid about his personal life, much more so than Prichard or Bischoff. He talked a lot about how his demotion at WCW affected him personally, not just as an announcer. He talked about his relationship with Jan, his placing work as a priority over her, and his drinking. In some ways he really opened up. He also got into more detail about how his association with Bill Watts has actually hurt him in a lot of ways, which is new and something I'd not heard him say before.  He talked about how a lot of people treated him like shit when he first came in to the WWF - I especially liked the story about Gorilla Monsoon lecturing Lord Alfred Hayes for being a prick to JR.  Another highlight was the story of his car being vandalized as he was having his very first meeting with Vince McMahon.

I will say this much...it is very clear that Conrad is going to have a hell of a time keeping JR on topic.  Sometimes Conrad would ask JR a question and he'd go off on some rambling tangent which had nothing to do with the question, and then come meandering back around and still not have answered the question.  Bischoff is notorious for long winded answers, but it's usually on topic at least, and he has a point which is somewhat relevant to the subject of their show.  There were a couple of occasions during this debut show where Conrad would ask JR a specific question about his leaving WCW and JR would end up using it as a chance to grouse about something entirely unrelated.  I get the impression that Conrad is going to be a lot more respectful of JR than he is of Bruce and Eric, but man he's going to have his hands full if he wants to actually discuss the topic at hand, and not have shows constantly derailed by JR complaining about these young kids and their fancy internets nowadays.

For people who are worried about the "Meltzer bashing" which is a hallmark of the Conrad Thompson podcasts - I don't think that is going to be much of a problem.  JR was very matter-of-fact in saying that yes, he talked to Meltzer and had a subscription to The Observer, and that Bill Watts and Paul Boesch read it as well, and talked to Meltzer.  There were a couple of occasions when Conrad quoted the Observer and JR calmly stated "that didn't happen" but there was never any anger in it. I don't think we're going to have to endure the vitriolic nonsense you get from Prichard and even Bischoff at times about Meltzer.  Having said that, if there is one thing all these podcasts, shoot interviews, documentaries and books have illustrated over the past few years, it's that Meltzer got worked by his sources sometimes. I am sure some of the hardcore fans who think anything Dave Meltzer says is gospel will take issue with some of the things said on this show, but I found JR to be refreshingly even-handed on the subject in his debut show.

So overall, a bit bumpy but not a bad start.  I'd already take it over Prichard's show, because you can tell JR gives zero fucks at this point, and is most likely going to say whatever the hell he wants.  Everything I've heard from Prichard lately either sounds like he's bored out of his mind and is totally phoning it in, or he's totally back in WWE protection mode, which makes sense of course...but it doesn't lead to a particularly revealing podcast. I think we could get some interesting insight out of this show, provided you're not one of those fans who hate JR and are going to automatically discount everything he says.

[flyonthewall2983]

They talked about Jim's radio show, and about how someone taped all the shows and still has them. I think some point down the line a Patreon account like Conrad's other shows have would greatly benefit for having those shows on it as a starting point. I would especially like to hear the interviews with Nash and the announcement he made on air that he was going to the WWF. I was 9 so I was not smart to anything at all and I remember how shocking it was to see Ross at WM 9. 

[SomethingSavage]

3 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I checked out the first show and thought it was pretty good.  There were some annoying technical issues which Conrad of all people should be past by this point - inconsistent volume and the sound of microphones constantly bumping into people's faces, etc. 

Personality wise, I for one have no issue with "grumpy old man" JR.  It's who he is. I'd take that over him trying to pretend he's somebody he isn't. He was also refreshingly candid about his personal life, much more so than Prichard or Bischoff. He talked a lot about how his demotion at WCW affected him personally, not just as an announcer. He talked about his relationship with Jan, his placing work as a priority over her, and his drinking. In some ways he really opened up. He also got into more detail about how his association with Bill Watts has actually hurt him in a lot of ways, which is new and something I'd not heard him say before.  He talked about how a lot of people treated him like shit when he first came in to the WWF - I especially liked the story about Gorilla Monsoon lecturing Lord Alfred Hayes for being a prick to JR.  Another highlight was the story of his car being vandalized as he was having his very first meeting with Vince McMahon.

I will say this much...it is very clear that Conrad is going to have a hell of a time keeping JR on topic.  Sometimes Conrad would ask JR a question and he'd go off on some rambling tangent which had nothing to do with the question, and then come meandering back around and still not have answered the question.  Bischoff is notorious for long winded answers, but it's usually on topic at least, and he has a point which is somewhat relevant to the subject of their show.  There were a couple of occasions during this debut show where Conrad would ask JR a specific question about his leaving WCW and JR would end up using it as a chance to grouse about something entirely unrelated.  I get the impression that Conrad is going to be a lot more respectful of JR than he is of Bruce and Eric, but man he's going to have his hands full if he wants to actually discuss the topic at hand, and not have shows constantly derailed by JR complaining about these young kids and their fancy internets nowadays.

For people who are worried about the "Meltzer bashing" which is a hallmark of the Conrad Thompson podcasts - I don't think that is going to be much of a problem.  JR was very matter-of-fact in saying that yes, he talked to Meltzer and had a subscription to The Observer, and that Bill Watts and Paul Boesch read it as well, and talked to Meltzer.  There were a couple of occasions when Conrad quoted the Observer and JR calmly stated "that didn't happen" but there was never any anger in it. I don't think we're going to have to endure the vitriolic nonsense you get from Prichard and even Bischoff at times about Meltzer.  Having said that, if there is one thing all these podcasts, shoot interviews, documentaries and books have illustrated over the past few years, it's that Meltzer got worked by his sources sometimes. I am sure some of the hardcore fans who think anything Dave Meltzer says is gospel will take issue with some of the things said on this show, but I found JR to be refreshingly even-handed on the subject in his debut show.

So overall, a bit bumpy but not a bad start.  I'd already take it over Prichard's show, because you can tell JR gives zero fucks at this point, and is most likely going to say whatever the hell he wants.  Everything I've heard from Prichard lately either sounds like he's bored out of his mind and is totally phoning it in, or he's totally back in WWE protection mode, which makes sense of course...but it doesn't lead to a particularly revealing podcast. I think we could get some interesting insight out of this show, provided you're not one of those fans who hate JR and are going to automatically discount everything he says.

Absolutely agreed on everything. Nice summarization here, and my early impressions pretty much line up with yours.

Only thing I'd offer up or expand upon is that I greatly enjoyed the personal sidebars as well. I got a real kick out of JR's story about showing his dad one of his first big earnings statements. You could tell it meant a great deal to him.

I don't want to derail things into a negative tailspin with this thread so early on, but I have to know - did anyone else get the scuzzy feeling when Conrad kept on & on with the Jan stuff?

I mean, I get why it's a significant part of the story. It puts Jim in a very specific headspace at the time and everything. But if Conrad brought it up once, he must've mentioned it 20 times. And I fully admit that the tragedy around her passing perhaps colors the situation a little darker for me, but yeah. It just felt like one of those baiting deals where I wish he would've stopped mentioning her name & moved on much quicker than he actually did.

[flyonthewall2983]

2 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

I don't want to derail things into a negative tailspin with this thread so early on, but I have to know - did anyone else get the scuzzy feeling when Conrad kept on & on with the Jan stuff?

I mean, I get why it's a significant part of the story. It puts Jim in a very specific headspace at the time and everything. But if Conrad brought it up once, he must've mentioned it 20 times. And I fully admit that the tragedy around her passing perhaps colors the situation a little darker for me, but yeah. It just felt like one of those baiting deals where I wish he would've stopped mentioning her name & moved on much quicker than he actually did.

Not really. I think with Bruce he knows to leave that stuff well alone sometimes, because Bruce has gotten personal but not as candid as Ross did. I would guess that she is a regular topic of conversation between the two off-mic and that there is a more of an aim with this show to his personal side in tandem with his professional one. I think he was respectful.

I also have to say I didn't really notice Jim rambling off-topic from the questions as Thread Killer did. I think he answered everything to the best of his ability, and painted a good look at his view of the business as it was in 92 and 93 and in general too. Some of the revelations like his marijuana use and disagreements with Watts were extremely enlightening, and I suspect we are going to see him in more of a "no fucks" mode regarding the people he worked for. Not to the point of throwing them under the bus, but able to speak more freely and not having to toe the company line like he might have before.

His stories about Bischoff were interesting, especially when Watts wanted Jim to fire Eric at a PPV "just to get people's attention". I started watching WCW during the Watts era and am still fond of that era, and for the longest time it didn't make a lot of sense to me that such a good product could have come from such lousy leadership. I sensed how bad it was in Mick Foley's first book and in later interviews, but I get a feeling Jim has the best point of view to how bad it was and his estimation that he knew it was a bad idea before he even started says a lot. 

[The Thread Killer]

7 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

They talked about Jim's radio show, and about how someone taped all the shows and still has them. I think some point down the line a Patreon account like Conrad's other shows have would greatly benefit for having those shows on it as a starting point.

I forgot to mention that, and that was one of the parts of the show that made me legitimately laugh out loud.

JR:  "Dennis Brent has every single episode of my radio show saved on cassette."

Conrad: "Wow...really?!"

JR: "Yes, I'm  just trying to figure out a way to monetize them."

Conrad: (pause) "I have an idea about that."

JR:  "I'm sure you do."

Another quote which made me laugh was this:

JR: "Jim Herd got his job in WCW when his only experience in Professional Wrestling was his friendship with Sam Muchnick.  I guess that means that if I was friends with Buzz Aldren, it would qualify me to be an Astronaut."

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

I don't want to derail things into a negative tailspin with this thread so early on, but I have to know - did anyone else get the scuzzy feeling when Conrad kept on & on with the Jan stuff?

I mean, I get why it's a significant part of the story. It puts Jim in a very specific headspace at the time and everything. But if Conrad brought it up once, he must've mentioned it 20 times. And I fully admit that the tragedy around her passing perhaps colors the situation a little darker for me, but yeah. It just felt like one of those baiting deals where I wish he would've stopped mentioning her name & moved on much quicker than he actually did.

I can totally see why you felt that way, but it didn't make me too uncomfortable for two reasons.  Firstly, it was JR who first voluntarily brought Jan up.  I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that Conrad might not have even gone there if JR hadn't brought her up himself and shown such a willingness (and maybe even a desire) to talk about her.  Secondly, I think Conrad used the timeline of JR's relationship and marriage to Jan to try and get him back on track when he got off topic, like saying "so were you married to Jan at this point?"  Like I said, I can see why you might feel that way, though.  When JR first started discussing his personal life I was actually a bit shocked, because that certainly isn't something Bruce Prichard or Eric Bischoff ever do.  I've never heard any of them mention what was going on in their marriage at the time of one of the shows they're reviewing or anything like that, so when it first happened on this show it did feel almost like we shouldn't be hearing this stuff.  But I got used to it rather quickly, and considering his reputation I actually respected the fact that JR was making himself so vulnerable in such a public forum.

[flyonthewall2983]

14 hours ago, PeteF3 said:

Bill Watts was (and still is?) a big-time stoner, so it's not as much of a stretch as you might think.

I have never heard this before. I figured him as more a good ol' boy drinking type (before he got religion).

I wonder if Ted Turner himself ever smoked with any of the wrestling people he was in contact with. I read the book about the beginnings of MTV and someone in it wrote about dealing with Ted, saying he had the best weed of any millionaire. 

[BruiserBrody]

13 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

I have never heard this before. I figured him as more a good ol' boy drinking type (before he got religion).

I wonder if Ted Turner himself ever smoked with any of the wrestling people he was in contact with. I read the book about the beginnings of MTV and someone in it wrote about dealing with Ted, saying he had the best weed of any millionaire. 

Not to derail the thread, but the more I see about Turner, the more he is the liberal classic wrasslin' babyface to Vince's MAGA heel in the "real world". 

[flyonthewall2983]

The irony there is that Bischoff is a dyed-to-the-wool Republican . 

This week's episode is about Hall and Nash leaving and the fake Diesel/Razor.

[flyonthewall2983]

2nd episode was okay, mostly a lot of regurgitated points that have been well-covered in podcasts and other shoots and with Hall, Nash and all involved with "The Curtain Call". 

[BruiserBrody]

3 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

2nd episode was okay, mostly a lot of regurgitated points that have been well-covered in podcasts and other shoots and with Hall, Nash and all involved with "The Curtain Call". 

I am a little over an hour in and yeah, really not much here compared to last week's soul bearing. 

Jim has the sniffles, to give the audio "snobs" fits. 

 

 

[SomethingSavage]

I like the chemistry between Jim and Conrad. Their back & forth kind of carries the show for me.

As you guys noted, this is mostly stuff we've heard before. It's cool to hear things from JR's perspective though.

I got a kick out of hearing JR giggle with glee when Conrad told the story about Hall and Nash working their last MSG stoned, for example. It was just a moment of capturing his natural reaction, and I dug that.

It was also pretty cool to hear JR defend Kevin Nash. I wasn't expecting that. Although the best part was another similar moment when JR reacted to Cornette's infamous line about Nash having five moves (six, if you count the hair flip).

So yeah. This isn't exactly new ground or anything, and the topics they seem to want to tackle in the near future all sound like more of the same. But it's coming from a slightly new angle, and I do enjoy hearing JR's slant on these things for now.

[SomethingSavage]

One thing I forgot to mention - I thought it was interesting to hear JR describe JJ Dillon as such a loyal, stand-up guy. I'm not disputing that as the general consensus or anything, but it just reminded me of when Dillon came up on 83 Weeks a few months back.

Bischoff was pretty harsh on Dillon, describing him as being as useful as a piece of furniture. Regarding the real point of contention, Eric said he felt he never could trust JJ from day one.

Eric specifically told a story about Dillon approaching Bischoff with confidential information (regarding contracts, dates, etc.) as soon as JJ jumped ship from being head of WWF talent relations back to the WCW camp.

Bischoff freely admits to using the information to his advantage, but he also says he felt like it showed Dillon's true character - and thus, he never fully trusted him as a part of the team. After all, if JJ would stab Vince in the back like that, what's stopping him from turning around and doing the same once the grass is greener on the other side again?

I say all that just to ask - this made me wonder if JR is even aware of that story. I kind of doubt it, and I *really* would've been interested in hearing Conrad recall the issue and getting JR's take on it - especially since he eventually inherited the talent relations position further down the road.