Grilling JR

[El-P]

Listened to the two first episode. I'm gonna admit, I enjoyed it quite a bit. So there, I was not very excited by the prospect, but JR comes off a lot better than I imagined. Also, he really makes Brucie & Eric look like two con-men gimmicks the way he refers to Meltz as a "journalist" and pretty much says he was reading the Observer, like a lot of people did as far as back in the 80's. He comes off a lot more matter-of-a-facty. I enjoy him chuckling at some of the bullshit too. Refreshing listen thus far.

[flyonthewall2983]

It picks up a little interest for me towards the end when he talks about the heel promo he cut on Vince McMahon the night he introduced fake Razor and Diesel. I think it was a significant turn in his time in the company, as it helped shape the kind of announcer he would be for the company when the time came for him to be lead announcer. As is pointed out, a few things he actually said in the promo got cheers from the audience so in terms of turning him into a heel announcer it didn't work but it was a building block to who he would be in the WWF/E from then on.

I've heard the Bischoff/JJ story before and it honestly doesn't surprise me that in the midst of all this ship-jumping he'd get a bit paranoid. He makes it sound as if he was on pins and needles every day for a certain time because of how low the company was considered in the hierarchy by everybody but Ted. Anyway, this is Dillon's response to those accusations, which given his stature in wrestling in terms of longevity and friendliness, I'll give more credence.

I guess he has a podcast too (why not, everyone else is doing it). Can anyone vouch for it's quality?

[Ricky Jackson]

I listened to a few and they were bland, even the tribute to Bruno 

[flyonthewall2983]

I suspected as much, not thinking much of his book. The full interview he did which that clips comes from is great, though. He said something about Vince Russo that really turned my head about what kind of person he is. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

JR talking about "Who had Meltzer duty" in various promotions is really gonna fuck with Prichard and Bischoff's narratives. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

Oh and finding out that JR and Heenan liked to smoke weed together before doing VO's is my favorite thing ever.

[SomethingSavage]

Alright. I'm fully on board with this show for now. The latest episode reviewing the events surrounding Beware of Dog was a sleeper hit. Plenty of entertaining stories and little gems. It was a topic I honestly wasn't expecting much from (especially since Prichard already covered it a few years back), but I really dug it.

Buck Johnson. Bearcat Johnson. Bobo Johnson. Porkchop Johnson. Junkyard Johnson. Thunderbolt Johnson. Whateverthefuck Johnson. The story of coming up with a name for Ahmed Johnson was tremendous and should be heard by all.

Enjoyed the story about having lunch with Rocky at the diner. Rock expressing how he'd like to pay for both meals but doesn't have the money is pitch perfect. Even if you told me it was embellished or exaggerated (and I'm not saying that it is or anything), it sums up everything about the Rock's personality that you've heard from countless people before. Good stuff.

Loved hearing JR go into detail about Yoko's weight gain and health issues. We've heard some of this stuff from Bruce before, but JR tackles it with a more personalized approach. He recalls explaining to Yoko that he is going to literally eat his way out of a job if he doesn't change his lifestyle.

Also, apparently among Yoko's favorite foods were fried turkey tails slathered & dipped in mayonnaise. Yikes, Yokes.

It's good to hear so many people (Austin, Corny, JR, even Bruce) sound off on Savio Vega's skills and put him over as a great worker these past several years. I hope it resonates and reaches more & more people, because I still hear/see some folks talking about Savio as if he's just the punchline for how disappointing or underwhelming a "mystery partner" reveal can turn out.

Apparently, an early idea pitched for the Goldust character included having Marlena wear a PROSTHETIC PENIS. That's right. So that the outline of a dick could be visible through her gowns and dresses. Incredible.

I cracked up at Conrad calling bullshit whenever JR tried defending the Goldust premise. Conrad outright asks JR if he even knew what "androgynous" meant before hearing it used to describe the Goldust character.

"Naw. I can't even spell it now!"

At least Ross sort of relents and admits that he just heard it repeated so many times in those meetings.

Next week is Over The Edge '99. That should be interesting. I give The Lapsed Fan a lot of shit (and rightfully so), but their coverage of that show was among their very best ever. I'm curious to see which angles or approaches Conrad chooses to employ, because there's just SO MUCH ground to cover. And with Jim being right there at ground zero as the tragedy happened, oof. It's a delicate deal, for sure.

I didn't give JR's old podcast any time whatsoever, but this new format absolutely works for me. JR as the host with rotating guests was meh. But JR as storyteller, answering questions while Conrad hosts and serves as a steady tour guide is much better.

[Matt D]

I never have any time to really write about either this or Bischoff's show. It's very enjoyable so far. The part I find most amusing with JR is when he just sort of guesses, or he goes along with Conrad's guess, when it's obviously he doesn't remember. Like with the whole "Davey was hanging out with the wrong people." shtick, and JR was really just speaking of generalities, but when Conrad mentions Luger, he sort of makes it seem he was obviously talking about Luger, when he obviously wasn't talking about Luger at all. That sort of thing happens a few times an episode. 

[El-P]

33 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

I cracked up at Conrad calling bullshit whenever JR tried defending the Goldust premise. Conrad outright asks JR if he even knew what "androgynous" meant before hearing it used to describe the Goldust character.

"Naw. I can't even spell it now!"

At least Ross sort of relents and admits that he just heard it repeated so many times in those meetings.

And then basically admits it was a complete cop out and a way to cover their ass, which is refreshing.

Yeah, this show is a clear cut winner thus far. Really curious about next week's edition, it's really an heavy topic.

[SomethingSavage]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

I never have any time to really write about either this or Bischoff's show. It's very enjoyable so far. The part I find most amusing with JR is when he just sort of guesses, or he goes along with Conrad's guess, when it's obviously he doesn't remember. Like with the whole "Davey was hanging out with the wrong people." shtick, and JR was really just speaking of generalities, but when Conrad mentions Luger, he sort of makes it seem he was obviously talking about Luger, when he obviously wasn't talking about Luger at all. That sort of thing happens a few times an episode. 

I haven't noticed this enough for it to strike me as an observation or anything yet, but I'll be paying attention to see if I notice it more going forward. Any other notable examples?

I definitely thought JR was referring to Neidhart at first - but didn't want to go there due to the timing with his recent passing and all. But then Conrad threw the Lex curveball and JR went along with it from there.

JR speaks in generalities, well, in general though. A lot.

As long as we continue to get good stories and shows of this caliber, I'm good with it.

[Matt D]

I know I've noticed it at other points. He's quick to agree with things that sound reasonable even if he doesn't remember or it might not be true. 

One thing I find funny so far is Conrad trying to manage JR on the ads. He was trying to do the railroad crossing one and JR just went on and on about something else. Then there are moments where the ads are obviously pre-tapes and they seem to come right in the middle of a sentence. 

[El-P]

3 minutes ago, Matt D said:

One thing I find funny so far is Conrad trying to manage JR on the ads. He was trying to do the railroad crossing one and JR just went on and on about something else. Then there are moments where the ads are obviously pre-tapes and they seem to come right in the middle of a sentence. 

Conrad : You should always buckle your seatbelt...

JR : oh yeah absolutely (then goes on a whole tangent)

Conrad : So. you should always buckle your seatbelt (proceeds with the PS add)

Funny stuff.

[flyonthewall2983]

Conrad stopping JR during the middle of his Ahmad Rashad tangent was funny.

7 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

Next week is Over The Edge '99. That should be interesting. I give The Lapsed Fan a lot of shit (and rightfully so), but their coverage of that show was among their very best ever. I'm curious to see which angles or approaches Conrad chooses to employ, because there's just SO MUCH ground to cover. And with Jim being right there at ground zero as the tragedy happened, oof. It's a delicate deal, for sure.

I really really want to like that show, but how the hosts are marks for themselves (and have cultivated their own marks) is a little unbearable. I really got the impression they had a lot of sour grapes over the Von Erich episode of Dark Side Of The Ring because they basically did a day's worth of podcasts covering it all, like somehow two guys with a lot of basically second-hand knowledge (because they weren't of age during that time) and bad jokes somehow trumps a major television production with many of the actual people involved. 

I never saw a thread for their show here, and didn't go looking out for one so I don't know the room temperature on those guys here. Anyway...

This week's show will be interesting for a number of obvious reasons, but I will be most interested in how Jim participates in a deep dive in perhaps the hardest moment of his professional life, and likely one of the top ones for him personally too. I don't think he'll walk on eggshells, but I think he'll employ some diplomacy with his words and be careful with what he'll try to say. 

He talked about it in this interview with Sam Roberts, and the way he describes being told that Owen was dead is obviously heartbreaking and it must have been extremely awkward given the circumstances he was in at the moment.

 

[Ricky Jackson]

There's only one World Class pod around here, partner 

[El-P]

Listening to the episode about Owen's death. Needless to say, it's not an easy listen, especially if you've lived the thing back then (I can remember JR's eerie announcements and Lawler looking like a ghost like it was yesterday), but it's pretty fascinating. Apparently, it's possible that Owen, as he was falling down, shouted to the people on the floor to move out of the way... Wow.

[flyonthewall2983]

I didn't watch the show, and heard about it on the radio the following morning. It was the top story of the national news, which in itself was a shock because even during this time of heightened popularity a wrestler's death barely registered on such a level. I didn't watch a lot of the WWF's programming at the time, but I knew enough to think when I heard the particulars that it was meant as a stupid comedy stunt related to them reviving the Blue Blazer gimmick. 

This is a tough listen, I'm about an hour left on the episode and will pick it up later but you can tell this is hard for Jim to process in terms of being reflective on his process that night. At one point he deflects any pity towards his direction, but you have to feel bad for the guy who had to tell the world this awful news only 10 seconds after being told himself. 

[El-P]

I was on the outs with WWF already, but still watching (I quit during the Summer, and Owen's death probably was the last straw). I remember usually I was taping the PPV's and watching them the next week-end. It's not like I was spending all my time on the Internet back then. For whatever reason, I choosed to watch it Monday morning, something I was never ever doing. It hit me like a ton of bricks. 

What's coming off of this show, is that Owen really did not want to do it and he wasn't well prepared at all. So yeah, it was an accident. But WWF was responsible (not the least of which, that idiot Russo who insisted on putting Owen in that position with basically no prep, while I remember Bischoff telling the story of Sting rehearsing for months before he would ever do it live). No wonder Martha got 18 millions on settlement.

[BruiserBrody]

The NBC movie on Jesse Ventura aired the same night. I was watching when the local news break mentioned a wrestler died during a stunt on tonight's PPV. 

[flyonthewall2983]

Kudos to Westwood One and/or either Conrad and JR themselves in deciding not to hawk anything and present this commercial-free. 

[ohtani's jacket]

It's hard to believe it's been 20 years since Owen died. 20 years. 

[flyonthewall2983]

Next episode is on Capitol Combat '90 AKA RoboCop in WCW. I get the need to wipe the slate clean a little after such a heavy topic, but I'm predicting this might be an early mis-step, where he might go overboard on the bitching and complaining about the creative to the point of boredom. 

[SomethingSavage]

You guys just about covered everything from the Owen episode.

Conrad used the resources well, and JR was respectful and tactful in his retelling of such a horrific tragedy. Although it's something I never really care to hear in detail again, kudos to both guys for how they handled it here.

On that note, you guys should scope out Jericho's podcast for a more upbeat look at Owen's career. I always dig it whenever Meltzer chops it up & talks shop with Jericho, and this one's no exception.

They hit all the high notes & even venture off into some unexpected detours along the way. It's great.

So yeah. Highly recommended. It's the perfect counterpart & companion piece to the bittersweet Over the Edge episode we got here.

[flyonthewall2983]

Tomorrow's show is about King Of The Ring '98. Conrad said it's three hours and one of his favorite shows he's ever done. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

21 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

Tomorrow's show is about King Of The Ring '98. Conrad said it's three hours and one of his favorite shows he's ever done. 

Three hours? Phew. I'm kind of burned out on Attitude Era stuff but have been loving JR's podcast. I work in a kitchen doing prep work so I have 8-10 hours a day where I'm almost entirely by myself and typically listen to podcasts that whole time. Long shows are my preference (Between the Sheets on Mondays is one of my favorite days, for example) so I'm sure Saturday I will be digging into this. I love how open JR is and I am very much in favor of his stance on Meltzer and Wade. The constant "FDM" stuff on Bruce and Eric's shows really is a major turn off. 

[SomethingSavage]

The show isn't 3 hours. It runs about 2 hours and 20 minutes. I'm way burned out on 97/98 stuff. It's actually one of my favorite periods for their television, but Bruce & Conrad have just run these talking points into the ground.

It's still refreshing to hear things from JR's perspective though. There's not a ton of variance from the Bruce episode we just got covering this show, but it's still worth listening to if you have the time.

I did enjoy the sidebar about how it's extremely difficult to get a match over if the performers aren't over FIRST. I wish WWE would remember this and make their characters a priority again.

Get the individuals over first & foremost. Then the matches can get over. Otherwise, everything's an uphill battle. Everything's unnecessarily made more difficult. And everyone's working harder rather than smarter.

Showering the match with six dozen superkicks and five hundred thigh-slaps does not compensate for guys who simply aren't over in the first place. Fuck a star rating. Give me a God damn character worth caring about first.